Tape Discussion#2- Anthony's hired DC to find Caylee dead or alive *CLIP ADDED*

[SoCalSleuth]

So they wouldn't help TM's search efforts for Caylee because he was looking for a dead Caylee--and his search efforts were free--but two people who are not working for months PAY to have a private investigator look for a dead Caylee. Makes no sense unless they knew she was dead and wanted to find her first.

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

An attorney's privilege with his client extends to agents working on his behalf. This covers the office staff that will see some of the communications. If the attorney hires a PI, the communication relayed to him is under the privilege umbrella. But regardless of what has been said here they would need to be under contract, with the attorney directly. Even if it was pro bono for some reason you would still have a formal agreement in place to establish that relationship.

If Baez hired DC he is covered for things he learned during the time of employment. ie... he cannot be asked if Casey told him where the body was during his jailhouse visit. But he can be questioned. JH never worked for Baez so he is a third party. He can be asked what DC told him.

Interesting. How 'bout DC, JH and BC ? BC wasn't "hired" until almost a month after the tape was produced. How valid is his assertion that this is work product under his direction ?

TIA !

 

[DawnTCB]

So they wouldn't help TM's search efforts for Caylee because he was looking for a dead Caylee--and his search efforts were free--but two people who are not working for months PAY to have a private investigator look for a dead Caylee. Makes no sense unless they knew she was dead and wanted to find her first.

I agree that IF the Anthony's hired these PI's to look there specifically for a dead Caylee then they must have known she was dead. However, after reading everything and watching all of the interviews I don't find anything that indicates that CA and GA (who might, or might not, have been paying these PIs) knew anything about this particular search until after the remains were found.

What are you reading that is making you think they asked for this search? I'm just not seeing that. CA & GA made a strong effort to focus on an alive Caylee, I think, because (1) focusing on a deceased Caylee meant, well, she wasn't coming back and (2) a deceased Caylee also meant that all the things about KC that they didn't want to believe were probably also true, including horrible things like a dead body in the trunk while KC roams Blockbuster. I don't think they would have sponsored this search, nor agreed to pay for it. I think that is why it was done while they were out of town.

But if you have something that is making you feel otherwise I would like to see it, because I really do want to figure it out - it's driving me nuts!

 

[impatientredhead]

Interesting. How 'bout DC, JH and BC ? BC wasn't "hired" until almost a month after the tape was produced. How valid is his assertion that this is work product under his direction ?

TIA !

DC has said he works for the Anthony's. Never heard him say his contract was with their attorney, past or present one. There is no privilege between a client and PI (there are ethical standards and privacy issues).

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

DC has said he works for the Anthony's. Never heard him say his contract was with their attorney, past or present one. There is no privilege between a client and PI (there are ethical standards and privacy issues).

Thanks ! So, there is no privilege should the tapes and/or associated cell phone records end up incrimminating any of As other than KC ?

 

[impatientredhead]

Thanks ! So, there is not privilege should the tapes and/or associated cell phone records end up incrimminating any of As other than KC ?

Not unless they can show that he was working for their attorney, but even if they could (which it does not appear they can) there is still a problem with the third party (JH) having the same "privileged" information. For example if you have a conversation with your attorney during which time you incriminate yourself and can be overhead by a third party (the guests at the table next to you, the waiter, etc....) that information introduced via the third party is not privileged.

 

[Angel Who Cares]

*Note: These Videos Are Different Releases From Today!
I added the Part #'s in order the of release from WFTV.
January 12, 2008

RAW VIDEO: Portions Of P.I.'s Video Of Caylee Remains Scene Released: Part: #2
http://www.wftv.com/video/18462972/index.html

RAW VIDEO: Anthonys' P.I. Searching Remains Scene: Part: #3
http://www.wftv.com/video/18460377/index.html

******************************************************************

*Note the #'s on the video in the links they are different! This is what was released yesterday:

Raw Video: Anthonys' Private Investagator At Remains Scene: Part: #1
http://www.wftv.com/video/18458335/index.html


I didn't watch them yet so I don't know how different they are but all 3 have different #'s in the links & released at 3 different times. #1 was yesterday: 5:09 PM....#2 was early this morning 6:38 AM........#3 was this afternoon at 12:51 PM

Sorry if you were aware of 3 different RAW videos!

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

Not unless they can show that he was working for their attorney, but even if they could (which it does not appear they can) there is still a problem with the third party (JH) having the same "privileged" information. For example if you have a conversation with your attorney during which time you incriminate yourself and can be overhead by a third party (the guests at the table next to you, the waiter, etc....) that information introduced via the third party is not privileged.

Thanks once again. Maybe there is some hope for accountbility !

 

[TravelingBug]

*Note: These Videos Are Different Releases From Today!
I added the Part #'s in order the of release from WFTV.
January 12, 2008

RAW VIDEO: Portions Of P.I.'s Video Of Caylee Remains Scene Released: Part: #2
http://www.wftv.com/video/18462972/index.html

RAW VIDEO: Anthonys' P.I. Searching Remains Scene: Part: #3
http://www.wftv.com/video/18460377/index.html

******************************************************************

*Note the #'s on the video in the links they are different! This is what was released yesterday:

Raw Video: Anthonys' Private Investagator At Remains Scene: Part: #1
http://www.wftv.com/video/18458335/index.html


I didn't watch them yet so I don't know hoe different they are but all 3 have different #'s in the links & released at 3 different times. #1 was yesterday: 5:09 PM....#2 was early this morning 6:38 AM........#3 was this afternoon at 12:51 PM

Sorry if you were aware of 3 different RAW videos!

Which I"m sure will be how LA's attorney accounts for all his backpeddling earlier today

 

[Angel Who Cares]

TravelingBug,

The case is confusing enough with the backpeddling done by KC, P.I.'s, ,LA & lawyer, the A's & lawyer, JB & assistants.

We sure don't need the media to do this to us too! LOL

All I know is they seem to be a bit different but it's late too! :crazy:

 

[Georgia PI]

Basically,

In American civil procedure, the work-product doctrine protects materials prepared in anticipation of litigation from discovery by opposing counsel. It is also known as the work-product rule, the work-product immunity, the work-product privilege and the work-product exception.


Under the work-product doctrine, "tangible material or its intangible equivalent" that is collected or prepared in anticipation of litigation is not discoverable, and may be shielded from discovery by a Protective Order, unless the party seeking discovery can demonstrate that the sought facts can only be obtained through discovery and that those facts are indispensable for impeaching or substantiating a claim. That is, the party unable to obtain the information has no other means of obtaining the information without undue hardship.


Comparison with attorney-client privilege

The work-product doctrine is more inclusive than attorney-client privilege. Unlike the attorney-client privilege, which includes only communications between an attorney and his client, work-product includes materials prepared by persons other than the attorney himself: The materials may have been prepared by anybody as long as they were prepared with an eye towards the realistic possibility of impending litigation. Additionally, it includes materials collected for the attorney such as interrogatories, signed statements, other information acquired for the prosecution or defense of a case, "memoranda, briefs, communications . . . other writings prepared by counsel for his own use in prosecuting his client's case . . . mental impressions, conclusions, opinions, or legal theories."

However, the work-product doctrine is also less powerful than the attorney-client privilege because it is not a privilege, and therefore may be overcome by a showing of necessity.

If the PI's were hired by the family game over.

If the PI's were hired by an Attorney then the work product should apply.

To take it further as to the ownership of the tape or tape's, in my contracts it states that my agency holds control and possession of the master tapes.

Hope this helps.

 

[Psmith]

Basically,

In American civil procedure, the work-product doctrine protects materials prepared in anticipation of litigation from discovery by opposing counsel. It is also known as the work-product rule, the work-product immunity, the work-product privilege and the work-product exception.


Under the work-product doctrine, "tangible material or its intangible equivalent" that is collected or prepared in anticipation of litigation is not discoverable, and may be shielded from discovery by a Protective Order, unless the party seeking discovery can demonstrate that the sought facts can only be obtained through discovery and that those facts are indispensable for impeaching or substantiating a claim. That is, the party unable to obtain the information has no other means of obtaining the information without undue hardship.


Comparison with attorney-client privilege

The work-product doctrine is more inclusive than attorney-client privilege. Unlike the attorney-client privilege, which includes only communications between an attorney and his client, work-product includes materials prepared by persons other than the attorney himself: The materials may have been prepared by anybody as long as they were prepared with an eye towards the realistic possibility of impending litigation. Additionally, it includes materials collected for the attorney such as interrogatories, signed statements, other information acquired for the prosecution or defense of a case, "memoranda, briefs, communications . . . other writings prepared by counsel for his own use in prosecuting his client's case . . . mental impressions, conclusions, opinions, or legal theories."

However, the work-product doctrine is also less powerful than the attorney-client privilege because it is not a privilege, and therefore may be overcome by a showing of necessity.

If the PI's were hired by the family game over.

If the PI's were hired by an Attorney then the work product should apply.

To take it further as to the ownership of the tape or tape's, in my contracts it states that my agency holds control and possession of the master tapes.

Hope this helps.

Thank you, Georgia PI.

Comment: meaning private cients, such as A family, have no privilege, or shield, correct or not?

 

[Georgia PI]

Thank you, Georgia PI.

Comment: meaning private clients, such as A family, have no privilege, or shield, correct or not?

There is no privilege as to work product, the only thing is that if their was a contract between the PI and the Client as to confidentiality.

 

[Pink Panther]

There is no privilege as to work product, the only thing is that if their was a contract between the PI and the Client as to confidentiality.

Georgia...We've been waiting for you! So, does this mean that if the A's were his client and they directed him to search this site that he would not be obliged to share the information with the authorities???

 

[Paintr]

Thank you kindly to the legal eagles on this thread you explain things so clearly. You have answered so many of my questions not just on this thread but many others.

You are greatly appreciated!

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

Thank you kindly to the legal eagles on this thread you explain things so clearly. You have answered so many of my questions not just on this thread but many others.

You are greatly appreciated!

ITA Thanks :blowkiss:

 

[Georgia PI]

Georgia...We've been waiting for you! So, does this mean that if the A's were his client and they directed him to search this site that he would not be obliged to share the information with the authorities???

in Georgia - Under normal civil actions, I would not talk to authorities without an Attorney but you have to remember that you are talking about a murder case. Should you not agree to talk to the authorities in some form or fashion one or all will happen.

1. you will be charged with withholding critical information in a murder case.

2. interfering with an on going investigation.

But in the state of Florida, a PI is not required under law to disclose certain items discovered during the investigation to the authorities. I will look up the statute and post it later.

 

[Pink Panther]

I have a hearing loss, so I use BOSE headphones on my computer for all videos, etc. and here she does say "holt" very clearly.

Let me say this: my hearing loss is not total or anything, but so many of these videos have background noise and that is always my problem. BOSE is the best, and I cannot begin to explain the clarity, plus, there is no need to increase volume, I keep it very low actually.

I'm just wondering, skeptic that I am, if somehow on youtube the original was manipulated in any way. I'm going back to the original release of the tape and listen there. I will definitely report back, lol.

mollie

mollie - It's your post that prompted me to put aside my notions that she had said "home" and when I listened again, I was convinced that you are right! She doesn't say "home", she says "holt" or something similar! I've started a separate thread about what I think she is referring to! Thanks so much for this input!

 

[Hot Dogs]

Here is a much better version of the video. It's the Greta show. It is missing some parts, but much of what it shows is decent resolution and color.

The thing some thought was a book appears not to be. The blanket doesn't look pink, and may not even be a blanket.

 

[Gypsy Road]

in Georgia - Under normal civil actions, I would not talk to authorities without an Attorney but you have to remember that you are talking about a murder case. Should you not agree to talk to the authorities in some form or fashion one or all will happen.

1. you will be charged with withholding critical information in a murder case.

2. interfering with an on going investigation.

But in the state of Florida, a PI is not required under law to disclose certain items discovered during the investigation to the authorities. I will look up the statute and post it later.

So give us some examples of what might be some of these "certain items discovered during the investigations" that Florida PI's aren't required to disclose.