The actual vs. desired outcome

[Holdontoyourhat]

The best fit for the garrote is in IDI scenario. This is because the garrote plus three assailants gives IDI the ability to carry out their intent with JBR, while not waking other people in the house.

One intruder or parent without a garrote may not have the ability to carry out an intended sexual assault, without waking other occupants or neighbors.

The idea that everything was staged, the handwriting disguised, makes it so nothing has to fit anything. That's too convenient a mode for RDI to operate in all the time. RDI thereby doesn't have to explain anything, and everything can be contrived in almost any way. Its a free ride.

I think the garrote, found embedded in JBR's neck, can't be conveniently written off as staging as RDI would like. Its not realistic, nor is it supported by evidence, that the garrote had no purpose other than staging in this crime.

 

[UKGuy]

The best fit for the garrote is in IDI scenario. This is because the garrote plus three assailants gives IDI the ability to carry out their intent with JBR, while not waking other people in the house.

One intruder or parent without a garrote may not have the ability to carry out an intended sexual assault, without waking other occupants or neighbors.

The idea that everything was staged, the handwriting disguised, makes it so nothing has to fit anything. That's too convenient a mode for RDI to operate in all the time. RDI thereby doesn't have to explain anything, and everything can be contrived in almost any way. Its a free ride.

I think the garrote, found embedded in JBR's neck, can't be conveniently written off as staging as RDI would like. Its not realistic, nor is it supported by evidence, that the garrote had no purpose other than staging in this crime.

Holdontoyourhat,
You are starting to sound like a 70's socialist or a 60's chinese communist party member. You keep telling us it is the nasty RDI's who are to blame for the lack of intellectual rigor, because they do not need to explain anything, which I guess is alien to your own right leaning position when you use phrases like, Its a free ride.

What does your mix of metaphor and misuse of analogy suggest to other members regarding the coherence of your own theory, not a lot I guess?

I think the garrote, found embedded in JBR's neck, can't be conveniently written off as staging as RDI would like. Its not realistic, nor is it supported by evidence, that the garrote had no purpose other than staging in this crime.

Why are you writing misleading stuff like the above, its neither fact nor opinion, its plain fabrication, maybe you have had a bad hair day, and finished off a bottle of wine?

Now the garrote as distinct from the ligature is deemed staging because the garrote would not function as a garrote, since the knots were fixed, and if the garrote had ever been twisted then JonBenet's hair should have been torn out at the roots since it was tied into the garrote knotting. Simple conclusion follows e.g. the garrote played no part in JonBenet's death and was applied afterwards.

That conclusion does not take account of the lack of internal neck injuries, or external bruising beneath the circumferential furrow!

All of which may suggest that JonBenet was manually strangled, which was then followed up by a staged asphyxiation designed to mask the former. This has a parallel with JonBenet's sexual assault which was also cleaned up and hidden beneath clean size-12 underwear.

So two major features of JonBenet's crime-scene can be demonstrated to be staged. The evidence is in your face it is transparent, it is not open to interpretation, this is how she was discovered, and you want us to believe an intruder entered the Ramsey household kidnapped, killed, and sexually assaulted JonBenet, then hung around to stage a crime-scene implicating the parents, all whilst leaving absolutely no trace of himself?


.

 

[Ames]

My oversight. Apologies to Ames. (She won't mind.)

Nope, it's no biggie, I don't mind.

 

[Ames]

Nope, she's a sweetie.

Thanks ! So are you!!!

 

[Solace]

Holdontoyourhat,
You are starting to sound like a 70's socialist or a 60's chinese communist party member. You keep telling us it is the nasty RDI's who are to blame for the lack of intellectual rigor, because they do not need to explain anything, which I guess is alien to your own right leaning position when you use phrases like, Its a free ride.

What does your mix of metaphor and misuse of analogy suggest to other members regarding the coherence of your own theory, not a lot I guess?


Why are you writing misleading stuff like the above, its neither fact nor opinion, its plain fabrication, maybe you have had a bad hair day, and finished off a bottle of wine?

Now the garrote as distinct from the ligature is deemed staging because the garrote would not function as a garrote, since the knots were fixed, and if the garrote had ever been twisted then JonBenet's hair should have been torn out at the roots since it was tied into the garrote knotting. Simple conclusion follows e.g. the garrote played no part in JonBenet's death and was applied afterwards.

That conclusion does not take account of the lack of internal neck injuries, or external bruising beneath the circumferential furrow!

All of which may suggest that JonBenet was manually strangled, which was then followed up by a staged asphyxiation designed to mask the former. This has a parallel with JonBenet's sexual assault which was also cleaned up and hidden beneath clean size-12 underwear.

So two major features of JonBenet's crime-scene can be demonstrated to be staged. The evidence is in your face it is transparent, it is not open to interpretation, this is how she was discovered, and you want us to believe an intruder entered the Ramsey household kidnapped, killed, and sexually assaulted JonBenet, then hung around to stage a crime-scene implicating the parents, all whilst leaving absolutely no trace of himself?


.

Not bad UK!

:clap:

 

[BOESP]

... and you want us to believe an intruder entered the Ramsey household kidnapped, killed, and sexually assaulted JonBenet, then hung around to stage a crime-scene implicating the parents, all whilst leaving absolutely no trace of himself?

I think he wants us to believe three Intruders did it, without leaving any trace.

By the way UKGuy, that was an excellent post.

 

[JMO8778]

I think he wants us to believe three Intruders did it, without leaving any trace.

By the way UKGuy, that was an excellent post.

I totally agree,and with Solace as well.
I think it can be summed up easily,it's the same premise the R's use...that everyone but them is stupid,and we should just believe whatever they say without question.

 

[JMO8778]

Holdon also stated that the cord had to be cut from her neck to be removed.This doesn't make any sense,for one reason,when the cord is presented in court before a jury,it would need to be intact,or rather,the defense would rather have it intact to better show what was around her neck,the length of it,and how many loops.To hold it up in pieces would be rather inept.So I looked for that info,and here's what I found,Steve Thomas,'JonBenet',hardback,p. 41:

Blond hair was snared in the knot,and the coroner had to cut the hair in order to remove the cord,which was tied more like a noose than a twisting garrote.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
so it was her hair that was cut in order to remove the ligature,not the cord.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
same page: A single loop of white cord was around the right wrist,tied on top of the sleeve but so loosely the Dr easily slid it free.There were 15 1/2 inches between that loop and a loop on the other end,which once apparently had bound the left wrist. (this is the one JR lied about,and said it was tied tightly when it fact it wasn't).

I think there was no more cord left;I believe her hands were tied (and lightly at that !) after she was in rigor;it was the best that could be done (and it was inept at that!) in order for her to appear to have been bound, and the 15 1/2 inches bet. them was to use up all the cord.

 

[Solace]

Holdon also stated that the cord had to be cut from her neck to be removed.This doesn't make any sense,for one reason,when the cord is presented in court before a jury,it would need to be intact,or rather,the defense would rather have it intact to better show what was around her neck,the length of it,and how many loops.To hold it up in pieces would be rather inept.So I looked for that info,and here's what I found,Steve Thomas,'JonBenet',hardback,p. 41:

Blond hair was snared in the knot,and the coroner had to cut the hair in order to remove the cord,which was tied more like a noose than a twisting garrote.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
so it was her hair that was cut in order to remove the ligature,not the cord.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
same page: A single loop of white cord was around the right wrist,tied on top of the sleeve but so loosely the Dr easily slid it free.There were 15 1/2 inches between that loop and a loop on the other end,which once apparently had bound the left wrist. (this is the one JR lied about,and said it was tied tightly when it fact it wasn't).

I think there was no more cord left;I believe her hands were tied (and lightly at that !) after she was in rigor;it was the best that could be done (and it was inept at that!) in order for her to appear to have been bound, and the 15 1/2 inches bet. them was to use up all the cord.

It seems that Holdon and Callan assume much in this case.

 

[Ames]

Holdon also stated that the cord had to be cut from her neck to be removed.This doesn't make any sense,for one reason,when the cord is presented in court before a jury,it would need to be intact,or rather,the defense would rather have it intact to better show what was around her neck,the length of it,and how many loops.To hold it up in pieces would be rather inept.So I looked for that info,and here's what I found,Steve Thomas,'JonBenet',hardback,p. 41:

Blond hair was snared in the knot,and the coroner had to cut the hair in order to remove the cord,which was tied more like a noose than a twisting garrote.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
so it was her hair that was cut in order to remove the ligature,not the cord.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
same page: A single loop of white cord was around the right wrist,tied on top of the sleeve but so loosely the Dr easily slid it free.There were 15 1/2 inches between that loop and a loop on the other end,which once apparently had bound the left wrist. (this is the one JR lied about,and said it was tied tightly when it fact it wasn't).

I think there was no more cord left;I believe her hands were tied (and lightly at that !) after she was in rigor;it was the best that could be done (and it was inept at that!) in order for her to appear to have been bound, and the 15 1/2 inches bet. them was to use up all the cord.

I think that the 15 1/2 inches of cord between each wrist, has two purposes...like you said..she was in rigor...(I don't believe that her wrists would have been able to move any closer)...and also as you said....that it was done to use up all of the cord.

 

[Ames]

It seems that Holdon and Callan assume much in this case.

Yes, they do...and they say that the RDI's make stuff up to fit our theory...I think that its the other way around, don't you??

 

[Solace]

Yes, they do...and they say that the RDI's make stuff up to fit our theory...I think that its the other way around, don't you??

As a matter of fact, I do. This is a murder case Holdon and Callan and for you, Holdon, to assume it took three people to carry out this murder is beyond the pale. Three people whose existence you cannot even prove. I will not have it.

It did not take three people. It took one very angry Patsy to go white with rage when she did her USUAL midnight check on JonBenet and found her soaking wet AGAIN and it infuriated Patsy who had by this time had been up for 18 hours.

 

[Ames]

As a matter of fact, I do. This is a murder case Holdon and Callan and for you, Holdon, to assume it took three people to carry out this murder is beyond the pale. Three people whose existence you cannot even prove. I will not have it.

It did not take three people. It took one very angry Patsy to go white with rage when she did her USUAL midnight check on JonBenet and found her soaking wet AGAIN and it infuriated Patsy who had by this time had been up for 18 hours.

AMEN!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdontoyourhat,
You are starting to sound like a 70's socialist or a 60's chinese communist party member. You keep telling us it is the nasty RDI's who are to blame for the lack of intellectual rigor, because they do not need to explain anything, which I guess is alien to your own right leaning position when you use phrases like, Its a free ride.

What does your mix of metaphor and misuse of analogy suggest to other members regarding the coherence of your own theory, not a lot I guess?


Why are you writing misleading stuff like the above, its neither fact nor opinion, its plain fabrication, maybe you have had a bad hair day, and finished off a bottle of wine?

Now the garrote as distinct from the ligature is deemed staging because the garrote would not function as a garrote, since the knots were fixed, and if the garrote had ever been twisted then JonBenet's hair should have been torn out at the roots since it was tied into the garrote knotting. Simple conclusion follows e.g. the garrote played no part in JonBenet's death and was applied afterwards.

That conclusion does not take account of the lack of internal neck injuries, or external bruising beneath the circumferential furrow!

All of which may suggest that JonBenet was manually strangled, which was then followed up by a staged asphyxiation designed to mask the former. This has a parallel with JonBenet's sexual assault which was also cleaned up and hidden beneath clean size-12 underwear.

So two major features of JonBenet's crime-scene can be demonstrated to be staged. The evidence is in your face it is transparent, it is not open to interpretation, this is how she was discovered, and you want us to believe an intruder entered the Ramsey household kidnapped, killed, and sexually assaulted JonBenet, then hung around to stage a crime-scene implicating the parents, all whilst leaving absolutely no trace of himself?




.

Nothing but pure left-field. Especially the part about 'no internal neck injuries ' and 'garrote would not function as a garrote' which both go in a direction opposite the photo evidence of the crime scene. Might make good literature though. In the 'fiction' section .:laugh:

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

As a matter of fact, I do. This is a murder case Holdon and Callan and for you, Holdon, to assume it took three people to carry out this murder is beyond the pale. Three people whose existence you cannot even prove. I will not have it.

It did not take three people. It took one very angry Patsy to go white with rage when she did her USUAL midnight check on JonBenet and found her soaking wet AGAIN and it infuriated Patsy who had by this time had been up for 18 hours.

You may be versed on this crime, but not versed in criminology. Ability, opportunity, and intent are needed. PR by herself lacks the ability to carry out all the things that took place without disturbing other occupants or neighbors, especially on the spur of the moment.

PR also hasn't the opportunity to sneak away from her husband for hours and hours while accidentally murdering her daughter.

Nor has it been established anywhere that PR ever had the intent to murder or even injure JBR.

Three people with a garrote and a plan would have the ability. They had ample opportunity because of the layout of the house, and the R's schedule that evening. Their intent evidently ranged from kidnapping to sexual assault to murder. It may have varied from one intent to the other.

 

[UKGuy]

Nothing but pure left-field. Especially the part about 'no internal neck injuries ' and 'garrote would not function as a garrote' which both go in a direction opposite the photo evidence of the crime scene. Might make good literature though. In the 'fiction' section .:laugh:

Holdontoyourhat,

As usual you have nothing to say, no rebuttal, no evidence, no constructive criticism, zilch, just like your IDI theory, which should really be renamed the Gorgonzola Theory since it full of holes!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

So two major features of JonBenet's crime-scene can be demonstrated to be staged. The evidence is in your face it is transparent, it is not open to interpretation, this is how she was discovered, and you want us to believe an intruder entered the Ramsey household kidnapped, killed, and sexually assaulted JonBenet, then hung around to stage a crime-scene implicating the parents, all whilst leaving absolutely no trace of himself?


.

This is hogwash, plain and simple. Nobody suggested an intruder staged a crime scene implicating the parents. How do you get these ideas? Not from the RN, which stated 'we are a group of individuals who represent a small foreign faction' remember?

If an intruder wanted to frame the R's, they could've done it most effectively. I'm not sure writing a ransom note pointing away from the parents is the most effective way of framing the parents, are you??

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdontoyourhat,

As usual you have nothing to say, no rebuttal, no evidence, no constructive criticism, zilch, just like your IDI theory, which should really be renamed the Gorgonzola Theory since it full of holes!

Interesting since I've never presented a theory here!

 

[Ames]

You may be versed on this crime, but not versed in criminology. Ability, opportunity, and intent are needed. PR by herself lacks the ability to carry out all the things that took place without disturbing other occupants or neighbors, especially on the spur of the moment.

PR also hasn't the opportunity to sneak away from her husband for hours and hours while accidentally murdering her daughter.

Nor has it been established anywhere that PR ever had the intent to murder or even injure JBR.

Three people with a garrote and a plan would have the ability. They had ample opportunity because of the layout of the house, and the R's schedule that evening. Their intent evidently ranged from kidnapping to sexual assault to murder. It may have varied from one intent to the other.

Three VERY sterile people!

 

[UKGuy]

Interesting since I've never presented a theory here!

Holdontoyourhat,

Precisely, I rest my case.