The Boarder Across the Street

  • #61
lawman said:
was JR`s bible opened to psalm 35,36 or psalm 118 ? or is this a myth
if somebody knows the correct answer would be appreciated

lawman

Lawman:

I don't know or recollect anything about JR and the Bible. But just out of curiosity, I looked up Psalm 118.

This is a snippet from Psalm 118 verse 27:

"He, Jehovah, is our Lord:
He, our God, on us hath shined:
Bind the sacrifice with cord,
To the horned altar bind."

Just a little weird ... wouldn't you say.
 
  • #62
tipper said:
Thanks. I wonder what it is I'm remembering with Nedra.


tipper,

John and Patsy Ramsey and Glen and Susan Stine spent the weekend of December 6, 1996 in New York City. They left the children -- Burke, JonBenet, and Doug -- home to be watched by Nedra Paugh and Nathan Inouye, Doug's live-in caregiver. JonBenet was in a parade the night of December 6, riding on the back of a convertible.
 
  • #63
lawman said:
was JR`s bible opened to psalm 35,36 or psalm 118 ? or is this a myth
if somebody knows the correct answer would be appreciated

lawman

According to PMPT, LHP told attorneys that JR's Bible was always opened on his desk to Ps. 118, and that she often read it while cleaning.
 
  • #64
thanks everyone

LHP says the bible was always opened to psalm 118(she knew the verse)
ST says the bible was found opened at psalm 35,36 giving SBTC backwards
linda wilcox says the bible was always closed
wonder if we can ever know for sure what it was opened to 26th december 1996.

lawman
 
  • #65
JonBenet got the bear at her Christmas pageant along with the "Secret Santa" letter.

These Secret Santa letters are usually given out...I do not recall where I read some of what was written...but I do know that JonBenet was referring to the letter when she spoke with her little friends mother regarding her visit from the Santa...that is secret, hence Secret Santa.
 
  • #66
Toltec said:
JonBenet got the bear at her Christmas pageant along with the "Secret Santa" letter.

These Secret Santa letters are usually given out...I do not recall where I read some of what was written...but I do know that JonBenet was referring to the letter when she spoke with her little friends mother regarding her visit from the Santa...that is secret, hence Secret Santa.





------->>>Hi Toltec, wow my brain has slipped some, I donut remember her getting a secret santa letter, where did you find that information or know about the secret santa letter?

I recall something about a note that had been in the Santa doll but that was missing, along with the doll. BUT someone posted the last week or so that the doll had been found packed in some stored boxes er something like that, BUT no mention of the note or ?letter?.



.
.
 
  • #67
Whodunit? said:
How would the boarder across the street know how much John Ramsey's bonus was?
The guy was at that party for quite some time. Longer than you'd expect for someone who was not invited. He pretty obviously heard Patsy refer to John's "southern commonsense" since he repeats that in his bogus ransom letter (another reason to suspect XXXX).

However, we're missing the obvious source for that info: JonBenet or Burke, both of whom played over at the Barnhill's house because that's where JB's dog was staying.


RstJ
 
  • #68
BlueCrab said:
<..>
4. Joe Barnhill apparently said originally that he saw JAR walk up to the house during the day after the Ramseys had left to go to the White's dinner party, but rumor has it that he later recanted that comment. The question that remains is: was pressure put on Joe to change his story to go along with the massive coverup that had been launched that reached all the way up to include the D.A., the courts, and the Colorado State House?

BlueCrab
It's not entirely clear just what (or when) Barnhill recanted this statement. Obviously, he did not see JAR. And just as obviously, BPD thought he did because they went to absurd lengths to verify the alibi of a guy who simply was not in Boulder. So, BPD believed in that sighting.

Some rumors have it that Barnhill denied seeing anybody, and that the report is from someone else. Not impossible, certainly, but whoever that person was, they had to have known JAR or otherwise, why would they think the stranger was him?


Someone approached (that is, was walking *toward*) the Ramsey house that night. This did not happen during the daytime. It was at night. This person has never been identified. I think it might very well have been the boarder, who has no real alibi for that night.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks he's "older." AFAIK, his age has never been released.


RstJ
 
  • #69
Rainsong waving hello to Robert St. James.

Have you heard any news on Beaner? I've googled like made over the last two years and found very little.

RS
 
  • #70
RobertStJames said:
The guy was at that party for quite some time. Longer than you'd expect for someone who was not invited. He pretty obviously heard Patsy refer to John's "southern commonsense" since he repeats that in his bogus ransom letter (another reason to suspect XXXX).
John is not from the South, so why would Patsy refer to his "southern common sense?" Where do you get that info from? The author of the RN, either deliberately or by accident, referred incorrectly to John's "southern common sense." It is Patsy who is from the South.
 
  • #71
Catfish said:
Hi capps,

Your point is well made. The sheer volume of their evasive answers tells us they were not interested in assisting the police.

(snip)

One is left to wonder just how much less useful information Patsy and John would have recalled had they not spent months (years) 'racking their brains' to remember the details of JonBenet's last hours on Earth.

-Catfish

The myth and theory goes, if the Ramseys had answered questions early on, rather than hiding behind their lawyers, they would have remembered more about the events surrounding their daughter's death and been of more help to the BPD. The myth continues that they could remember quite well for their book, Death of Innocence, but not for the police interviews--which occurred prior to the writing of their book.

But did they really?

I don't know; I don't remember. Been too long since I read DOI.

Regardless, the original myth still stands as unarguable fact.

Busting the Myth

From Patsy's interview in April of 1997, I counted 459 questions posed to her by Detectives Truillo and Thomas. Of those 459 questions, Patsy responded, 'I don't know,' or 'I can't remember,' 48 times, or 10%.

However, if we look at the responses, I find in 32 instances, while Patsy says, 'I don't know,' she goes on to respond in depth. For example:
JonBenet: The Police Files, pg 75

ST: Okay. When you came down the stairs the first time, did you touch the note that time?

PR: I don’t recall doing that but...I may have.

Or:

ST: Do you recall, uh, did the note go back upstairs with you when you went up to check JonBenet's room?

PR: I don't remember exactly, but I don't think so. I think I just, you know, pounced up the stairs as fast as I could. I don't think I took it with me.

Subtracting the 'ambiguous' 'I don't recall' responses gives us a 3% response of 'I don’t know' or 'I don't remember.'

Take a look at those two questions above. What purpose did they serve in finding the killer of JonBenet?

None. They were irrelevant because what ST and TT were attempting to do was get Patsy to confess to being the author of the note.

ST: So, certainly your fingerprints may very well be on the note and, and, and explained that way?

PR: Right. I, I mean I may have touched it, you know. (Pg 76)

We know Patsy's prints were not on the note, yet Thomas goes on to say, (pg. 101)

ST: Patsy, did you write the note?

PR: No, I did not write the note.

ST: Is there any reason, Patsy, that your blatted print of your hand will be on that paper when it test?

PR: I did not write the note and I don't, what's 'blatted?'

ST: This (palm) portion of your hand.

PR: I don't know. I mean, I picked it up or touched it, it may be on there, but I did not write the note.

April 30, 1997. Adequate time for print testing to have been run on the note. Certainly by that time Steve Thomas knew no fingerprints or palm prints had been found on the note, yet he goes after Patsy, attempting to get her to 'fess up.

Another question without relevance to the murder:

TT: Okay. About how many gifts were you wrapping that day to get ready to go?

PR: Oh, I don't know. A couple of shopping bags full.

An even better example:

ST: Why do you think someone did this, Patsy?

PR: I don't know.

Unless the detective asking this question believes the person being asked is the killer, that question has no relation to the murder investigation. It is a simple question, isn't it? Or--is it?

The intent of that type of question is pointedly aimed at the 'suspect.' A chance for the 'suspect' to unburden herself, to tell of the trials this child put them through, to vindicate herself in the death of the child.

Except Patsy didn't cave. Patsy didn't do it.

There are other questions where Patsy does indeed answer she doesn't recall events of that time. Such as:

ST: Do you remember on the night of the 25th, when you and John came home, what the lockup procedure, the security procedure for the house that night was?

PR: No, I don't.

I don't know how other families work, but in our family, the last person up to bed is the one to lock up. Since Patsy stayed with JonBenet to get her ready for bed while John went downstairs with Burke, and was already in bed when he came to their room, why would she know the lockup procedure?

There are many more questions exactly like that. Cases where the detectives ask Patsy what John was thinking, what John knew, what were John's impressions.

How is she to answer other than, 'I don't know,'?

And it is examples like these which clearly show the irrelevancy those questions posed in the investigation of JonBenet's murder and should not be counted as, 'I don't know' or 'I can't remember' responses.

I won't go through and count the responses to questions such as these to get an accurate percentage, but given that the interview questions answered with, 'I don't know,' or 'I don't remember' only tallied 10% to begin with, and degenerated to 3%, it cannot be accurately stated that the Ramseys couldn't answer questions that were important to the investigation with anything other than, 'I don't know,' or 'I can't remember.'

What does stand out in Patsy's initial interview is Steve Thomas' deception. Not only in regard to the non-existent fingerprints on the note, but in his statement that, "We know we are not a large police department, and I'm certainly the first to ask for help when something beyond me, or to go to the experts."

Yet BPD turned away offers of assistance from the CBI and the Sheriff's Department.

I have not done John Ramsey's interview. Perhaps there I will find all those 'pertinent to the investigation questions' that were answered with, 'I don't know,' or 'I can't remember.'

But I doubt it.

Rainsong
 
  • #72
Here's a different way to look at her answers...

Rainsong said:
ST: Okay. When you came down the stairs the first time, did you touch the note that time?

PR: I don’t recall doing that but...I may have.

Or:

ST: Do you recall, uh, did the note go back upstairs with you when you went up to check JonBenet's room?

PR: I don't remember exactly, but I don't think so. I think I just, you know, pounced up the stairs as fast as I could. I don't think I took it with me.
When first asked about touching and moving the note, it's all maybe and I don't know. Then...

Rainsong said:
ST: Is there any reason, Patsy, that your blatted print of your hand will be on that paper when it test?

PR: I did not write the note and I don't, what's 'blatted?'

ST: This (palm) portion of your hand.

PR: I don't know. I mean, I picked it up or touched it, it may be on there, but I did not write the note.
Once the question is being asked with regards to why her fingerprints or palm print may be on the note, she becomes certain, stating "I picked it up or touched it." To me, that states that she knows. Why did she answer I don't know before?

IMO, when the question seems pointless or inconclusive, she answers in a vague and forgetful way. But when a question is pointed, and suggests involvement, all of a sudden her memory becomes quite good...
 
  • #73
If you notice in the first response from your cut and paste, she replies 'may have.'

She clearly doesn't remember and I seriously doubt any other person in the same situation would have either. Still, she attempts to answer by saying, 'I may have.'

Regardless, Thomas lied about her blatted print--all in an attempt to get her to confess to writing the note.

Nice ploy.

Rainsong
 
  • #74
Rainsong said:
If you notice in the first response from your cut and paste, she replies 'may have.'

She clearly doesn't remember and I seriously doubt any other person in the same situation would have either. Still, she attempts to answer by saying, 'I may have.'

Regardless, Thomas lied about her blatted print--all in an attempt to get her to confess to writing the note.

Nice ploy.

Rainsong

My point is that when the question implicated her, she was very clear about the fact that SHE DEFINITELY TOUCHED THE NOTE. Why couldn't she have been so definitive in the first set of questions? She chose instead to add the maybe's and the uncertainties.

As for Thomas, I am not going to speak directly to his skills and abilities, but every police officer in the country uses these tactics to get suspects to confess. Even the very best do it. Yes, that's right. They lie to suspects. Interrogations are setups designed to invoke confessions. I know you're a John Douglas fan, so you should be aware of that stuff. Now it is true, that legally, a confession can be suppressed in a court room if it was only obtained by an affirmative misrepresentation, but there is a lot more to it than that, which I would be happy to elaborate on if you're interested. But in general, police officers and other investigators often lead witnesses on and tell them lies to get them to confess. It does not mean they are a bad cop...
 
  • #75
Voice of Reason said:
My point is that when the question implicated her, she was very clear about the fact that SHE DEFINITELY TOUCHED THE NOTE. Why couldn't she have been so definitive in the first set of questions? She chose instead to add the maybe's and the uncertainties.

...
Perhaps because the anti-depressants she was on are known to cause memory problems.
 
  • #76
Rainsong said:
Rainsong waving hello to Robert St. James.

Have you heard any news on Beaner? I've googled like made over the last two years and found very little.

RS

Hey, Rainsong,

Nope. Zip. A few searches, Warners wanting money to hire outside investigators, asking for donations, etc. Some rumors about how they spent the previous donations. But there are always rumors.

Nothing solid. I don't expect anything until her body is found. That might be years.


RstJ
 
  • #77
Voice of Reason said:
John is not from the South, so why would Patsy refer to his "southern common sense?" Where do you get that info from? The author of the RN, either deliberately or by accident, referred incorrectly to John's "southern common sense." It is Patsy who is from the South.

That was one of her favorite sayings. Doesn't matter if John was from the South or not. It's been repeated so many times as "proof" that Patsy wrote the note that I'm presuming it's based on sayings she was known to have used. But I might be wrong on that.


RstJ
 
  • #78
RobertStJames said:
That was one of her favorite sayings. Doesn't matter if John was from the South or not. It's been repeated so many times as "proof" that Patsy wrote the note that I'm presuming it's based on sayings she was known to have used. But I might be wrong on that.


As I remember, the "southern common sense" line was used on John only by family members as a TIC thing. They knew better.

However, a child in the house hearing this line from time to time spoken by adults may have taken it seriously and not as a joke -- and it ended up in the RN.
 
  • #79
Bottom line ... you have to admit the whole boarder scenario is awfully strange. This guy comes to the Ramsey's house with a paultry excuse of "I was worried about the Brayhills," What the heck was he worried about,he was only their tenet. This boarder was a stranger to JR,(JR didn't even know the Brayhill's had a boarder until the day JB was murdered),so he is letting a stranger into his house.(John sure was not using his good 'ole southern common sense if you ask me.) Then before you know it,within days all hell breaks loose,and a 6 yr old is murdered.A stranger in the mist ... no,this boarder cannot be dismissed.

Only strange part ... why would the Ramsey's want to cover up for a stranger?

They say there is no such thing as a perfect murder .........come on sleuthers,let's put our heads together and think,think,think!!!!!!
 
  • #80
BlueCrab said:
As I remember, the "southern common sense" line was used on John only by family members as a TIC thing. They knew better.

However, a child in the house hearing this line from time to time spoken by adults may have taken it seriously and not as a joke -- and it ended up in the RN.
Or an employee.
 

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