the cadaver dog

[SapphireSteel]

The McCanns lawyers Carter Ruck, have made a statement on the Stephen Birch claims that a body is buried under Murats property in PdL.
Its odd that suddenly the Portuguese Police are trusted for their expertise, was it not Eddie and Keela that searched Robert Murats property in 2007, It seems odd that there is a sudden "trust" in the PJ?


snipped from here
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/20/madeleine-mccann-update_n_1898023.html

the volume of the readers comments is interesting as is the overwhelming negativity to the parents, having said that, why would Parents of a missing child suddenly NOT want every stone unturned?
I still wonder which side Mr Birch is on

Sorry?

Since when did Team McCann give the Portugese one shred of credibility?

Their criticism of the investigation began on May 3 2007 and has never really ceased...until, apparently, now.

How strange.

What a backflip.

Could it be that the UK "Review" is uncovering some uncomfortable truths? It's about time we had some publicity on the results of the review isn't it? After all, it is (more) British taxpayer's money being spent on reinvestigating the investigation.

 

[Donjeta]

It wouldn't do to start suspecting Murat again since he was freed of the arguido status at the same time the McCanns were.

 

[fabgod]

It wouldn't do to start suspecting Murat again since he was freed of the arguido status at the same time the McCanns were.

I'm not purporting this as a theory at all, but, what if it was all a plan to point the finger at Murat, the body (if there is a body) placed there and the hope that it would be located on his property which would obviously seriously implicate the then Arguido.
Add to that the insistence of the Tapas friends saying he was the man they saw that culminated in the face off between the three tapas friends and Murat, plus the strange Danie Kruger thing that was instigated by people close to the McCanns, that in itself was odd given their insistence on Madeleine being alive, why entertain someone who so called had a machine that could find bodies?

Its a very left field suggestion, but, would it not be the perfect time for it all to end, before any reviews, investigations etc came to a conclusion, not only exonerating the parents but giving creedence to the original concerns about Murat?

Mr Birch is seemingly very confident in his theories, surely the simple answer would be to excavate the area and find out one way or the other, what would be a reason for any of the parties involved, not to want that?

 

[Donjeta]

Madeleine McCann May Be Buried Under Driveway; Authorities Seem Unwilling To Investigate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/20/madeleine-mccann-update_n_1898023.html

It's just that I don't really see how anybody could have hidden anything under somebody else's driveway without that somebody else noticing.

In a flowerbed, why not. In a ditch or a little used shed in their property, sure. In an abandoned well or in the shrubbery, just go ahead. But under a driveway? How many people wouldn't notice if there is someone digging or a newly filled hole in their driveway? IMO, not possible unless there was fresh construction work going on that driveway at the time and holes were an expected thing.

 

[fabgod]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/20/madeleine-mccann-update_n_1898023.html

It's just that I don't really see how anybody could have hidden anything under somebody else's driveway without that somebody else noticing.

In a flowerbed, why not. In a ditch or a little used shed in their property, sure. In an abandoned well or in the shrubbery, just go ahead. But under a driveway? How many people wouldn't notice it and if there is someone digging or a newly filled hole in their driveway? IMO, not possible unless there was fresh construction work going on that driveway at the time and holes were an expected thing.

But, Mr Birch is saying that the driveway wasnt there in 2007, it was laid later than that.
The area he seems to be looking at is the area behind the house and pool which was just overgrown scrub land in May 2007.
I had a look on Google Earth and used the timeline thing there, the quality is poor but you can see that the area was just wasteland and now it has changed.

It still doesnt answer the question though, if it was McCanns, friends or Abductor, how did they know they could bury a body there undetected and where did they find the shovel on the spur of the moment to dig the hole?

That would then lead to the obvious conclusion that he is without saying it, implying that Murat was complicit if it even happened?

 

[sherlockh]

I don't understand how the jump is made from 'something being buried there' to 'Madeleine being buried there'. How does he come to these conclusions? It could just be a deceased pet or whatever. It is not surprising the Portuguese aren't going to dig wherever someone things 'something' is buried. It is however surprising that the McCanns agree, so maybe they should dig anyway

 

[fabgod]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...792.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular#slide=1544798


The Huffington post (link above) has printed some photographs in a slideshow on the above link.
On photos 5 6 and 7 Stephen Birch is claiming that the photos are taken of the Police search in May 2007( During the search) and October 2007(after the search) of the Murat property.

The key area, according to Mr Birch is a pile of rubble with a plank on top,(indicated by the black box in the photos) this area seems to be exactly the same during and then after the searches were completed. He is of the belief that this area was missed and is the area that he ground scanned after the new driveway was laid.

If these photos are correct, it does look like this area was undisturbed and surely, no matter what the background or suspicions of Stephen Birch, given the complete lack of leads in the case, must be worth investigation?
Even if just to prove Mr Birch wrong?

Edited to add, The Murat residence was searched by the dogs apparently, maybe this would explain the disregard for the accuracy of the dogs, that is if there is a body in that location?

 

[Clutchbag]

It wouldn't do to start suspecting Murat again since he was freed of the arguido status at the same time the McCanns were.

Plus the PJ actually exonerated him whereas the mccanns were not

 

[Clutchbag]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...792.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular#slide=1544798


The Huffington post (link above) has printed some photographs in a slideshow on the above link.
On photos 5 6 and 7 Stephen Birch is claiming that the photos are taken of the Police search in May 2007( During the search) and October 2007(after the search) of the Murat property.

The key area, according to Mr Birch is a pile of rubble with a plank on top,(indicated by the black box in the photos) this area seems to be exactly the same during and then after the searches were completed. He is of the belief that this area was missed and is the area that he ground scanned after the new driveway was laid.

If these photos are correct, it does look like this area was undisturbed and surely, no matter what the background or suspicions of Stephen Birch, given the complete lack of leads in the case, must be worth investigation?
Even if just to prove Mr Birch wrong?

Edited to add, The Murat residence was searched by the dogs apparently, maybe this would explain the disregard for the accuracy of the dogs, that is if there is a body in that location?

The cadaver dog searched murats villa, it was not apparently, but fact, he alerted to nothing, now if you can find an example of the cadaver dog failing to alert to the place of a body or remnant scent of one, that might be interesting

Disregard for the accuracy of the dogs? Only in some quarters.

 

[fabgod]

The cadaver dog searched murats villa, it was not apparently, but fact, he alerted to nothing, now if you can find an example of the cadaver dog failing to alert to the place of a body or remnant scent of one, that might be interesting

Disregard for the accuracy of the dogs? Only in some quarters.

Clutchbag, maybe you are not understanding my post,
I'm saying that apparently the dogs searched the residence, that doesnt mean that they did a search of all the grounds including the wasteland behind the house, I'm not sure on all the areas.

The disregard for the accuracy of the dogs, "exactly" in some quarters, I know which "quarter" I am suggesting as well, (actually it might be more of a half )

Oh and I know of a case where a dog didnt alert to a body , and by the way, I'm a believer in the Dogs!

 

[SapphireSteel]

The only reason Madeleine would be in that property is if Gerry hid her there. Murat did not take Madeleine.

We know that PDL was surrounded by deserted beach, hills and caves that he was quite familiar with. I personally believe Madeleine was moved several times.

It would make absolutely no sense at all for Gerry to hide her in an unfamiliar backyard where she would be far more likely to be discovered (as would he)...unless of course you're going for the whole Tapas/Murat Organised Pedophile Ring Conspiracy idea, which I don't.

We also know that the dogs did not alert to the property. That is proof enough for me too that Madeleine had never been there.

 

[fabgod]

SapphireSteel
What if there is a need for a body to be found now?
Would it not make sense for it to be in that location and have an instant ready made suspect in the frame?
Just a thought!

 

[SapphireSteel]

Fab -

I see where you're going with this and if it were possible, I'm sure it would've been considered! But in my opinion, Madeleine's long gone.

They were thorough.

:maddening:

 

[Clutchbag]

Clutchbag, maybe you are not understanding my post,
I'm saying that apparently the dogs searched the residence, that doesnt mean that they did a search of all the grounds including the wasteland behind the house, I'm not sure on all the areas.

The disregard for the accuracy of the dogs, "exactly" in some quarters, I know which "quarter" I am suggesting as well, (actually it might be more of a half )

Oh and I know of a case where a dog didnt alert to a body , and by the way, I'm a believer in the Dogs!

hey no worries, this is from mr grime the dog handlers report on murats villa search

The property was subjected to a search for human remains or blood stained
articles. The outside of property was stripped of vegetation and after the
ground being probed was searched by the EVRD dog. The inside of the
property was then searched by the dog. There were no alert indications and
no human remains were located.

 

[Clutchbag]

my replies in bold

what rubbish

Eddie did not take part in the search for kate prouts body in the grounds of the farm recently, why lie??? Oh i know, to discredit the cadaver dog that alerted in the mccann case, duh

Eddie did though INDEED take part in the original search in the house and alerted years back and guess what, he was right

 

[Clutchbag]

katie says in her book the scent of death lasts no more than a month what a liar...

 

[SapphireSteel]

katie says in her book the scent of death lasts no more than a month what a liar...

If you are quoting the book, would you be able to put the page number in?

TIA.

Perhaps she meant "to the human nose".

I know scent detectable to dogs can last for months or even years in the right conditions.

 

[brit1981]

As far as I am aware the Pj physically searched the area Birch has claimed he knows that a body (which he has been able to identify somehow) is buried there. Photos of the search show the area covered in vegetation with no signs of recent digging. Did Birch actually search anywhere else, or did he just decide to target Murat's mother in this way?

 

[brit1981]

what rubbish

Eddie did not take part in the search for kate prouts body in the grounds of the farm recently, why lie??? Oh i know, to discredit the cadaver dog that alerted in the mccann case, duh

Eddie did though INDEED take part in the original search in the house and alerted years back and guess what, he was right

Eddie took part in the original search in the house and grounds. he barke din the house where no body was ever found, but failed to bark when searching in the burial area. That was only found because the killer told the police where the body was. If the dog was so accurate like the red tops would tell their readers, one might think they might have noticed the decomposing body under their paws.

 

[fabgod]

Eddie took part in the original search in the house and grounds. he barke din the house where no body was ever found, but failed to bark when searching in the burial area. That was only found because the killer told the police where the body was. If the dog was so accurate like the red tops would tell their readers, one might think they might have noticed the decomposing body under their paws.

snipped by me from here
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

CANINE SEARCH OF MR MURAT'S PROPERTY.

The property was subjected to a search for human remains or blood stained
articles. The outside of property was stripped of vegetation and after the
ground being probed was searched by the EVRD dog. The inside of the
property was then searched by the dog. There were no alert indications and
no human remains were located.

Your "facts" don't seem to tally with the official reports, yet you state them as proof, do you have any evidence to back up your claim?