The Conclusion

[Jayelles]

They could have told Burke that JonBenet had been kidnapped and they were not going to Charlevoix but were staying home all day because they were waiting for the kidnapper to call, then waited until Burke was asleep the next night and John could have driven the body out to the mountains.

They could have told Mike Archuletta that JonBenet had been kidnapped and they were not going to Charlevoix so they were cancelling the flight. If you mean a suitcase containing her body, they would not need to explain it to anyone because they would not take it in one, they didn't have to put it in anything, no-one would see it because John would put it in the boot of his car and take it away in the dead of the following night.
They could have told the older kids that JonBenet had been kidnapped and they were not going to Charlevoix because they were waiting for the kidnapper to call and the older kids should go back home to Atlanta and wait for further news from them.


I think it had stopped snowing by 6 am that day. If it did snow again and there were more tyre tracks they didn't want anyone to see then they would just wait a few more days until the sun came out and melted them or it snowed again and they got covered up THEN they call the police.

They could have said that no-one including Burke saw JonBenet after the evening of 25th because she had been kidnapped.

I think I just have.

It may not have been a brilliant coverup plan but it would have been far more believable than what you are suggesting the Ramseys wanted the police to think had happened - either that an intending kidnapper changed his mind about kidnapping a child and sexually abused and killed her instead but still left behind a ransom note, or that someone came into the house sexually abused and killed a child and left a note demanding a ransom even though he had left the body in the house. There is no way any investigators were going to believe either of these scenarios.

Well, yes - your suggestion has possibilities but I see holes in it.

You suggest that the Ramseys tell Burke, Archuletta and the big kids about the "kidnapping". That required a big gamble - i.e. that they would remain silent. It would only take ONE of them to decide that the police SHOULD be informed and the police would arrive - maybe catch them in the act of getting rid of the body.

The Ramsey's official story is "don't know nuffin about nuffin". They claim JonBenet was alseep when they were awake and that they were asleep when she was murdered and that Burke was even asleep up until after the police arrived. As long as they were asleep, there is nothing to be interrogated about. They have to give one asnwer and one answer only - "I don't know - I was asleep". Easy to learn, easy to rehearse, easy to stick to.

Delaying a day before reporting the "kidnapping" to police would mean that the police could probe much, much further into the actions. They would have had a full day of being awake and of activities and then there would be plenty of scope to slip up and get the stories wrong.

Do't forget that their neighbours, the Barnhills also knew they were going to Charlevoix. Don't you think they would notice the Ramseys were still at home and maybe pay a visit to find out what was wrong? Maybe other neighbours knew too - people often let their neighbours know when they are going away. All of this would raise suspicion.

Then there is the question of why the Ramseys didn't tell the police about the kidnapping .... "But the ransom note says if we told a stray dog, she would die" ... yet you have them telling a whole host of people - so that wouldn't fly.

IF the Ramseys killed JonBenet - and I think it seems reasonable to suppose that if they did, then it would have been a tragic accident - it seems likely that there would have been a significant period of hysteria and chaos during which they wouldn't know what to do. Time has a nasty habit of flying when you need time to think. IMO, there would have been very little time for any cool-headed planning.

Your theory assumes that the Ramseys would definitely have taken a particular course of action.

 

[Moab]

Moab,

Your theory as I understand it is that the Ramseys hid the body in the house and staged a torture/sexual abuse/botched kidnap event, wrote the most ridiculous ransom note that no-one with half a brain would conclude was legitimate, and immediately called the police. .

Yes, ludicrous isn’t it? They sure lucked out getting the keystone cops didn’t they?

My question is: wouldn't it have been FAR, FAR simpler and FAR more likely to be successful, to delay calling the police for 24 hours, stage a plain old ordinary regular kidnapping, write a short realistic ransom note and have the dead child eventually found way away from the house? .

There is no way they could DUMP THAT CHILD, as evidenced by carefully wrapping her in her blankie.

I know I, Zman, Maikai, (and others?) have asked this question or ones similar to it before, but to date I have never seen a satisfactory answer to it. Which is why I am asking it again. .

Linask answered this part just fine, as well as I could have, or better.

And why the hurry to have the police visit the house? And if as you say, they were expecting the police to come and do a brief search then leave immediately without finding the body, this being essential for their plan to work, how stupid was that? How could they reliably expect the police to behave this way? .

They were working on a pretty tight timeframe here with the flight planned the next morning and the BIG KIDS coming in, they didn’t have time to stage a perfect scene, but they sure lucked out with the keystone cops didn’t they? JR probably also almost pee’d his pants when he found out the EffBeeEye showed up, but darn if he didn’t luck up again, cause they told the Keystone cops to “look at the family.”

Then according to your theory they write a ransom note supposedly left behind by the torturer/sexual abuser/failed kidnapper. What were the police supposed to have deduced from this? That the intending kidnapper wrote the note, left it on the stairs and then instead of leaving immediately with the child, stays in the house and tortures and abuses her and kills her. .

Only Patsy-the-drama-mama could have come up with the “mutha” of all ransom notes. The whole genre of this crime screams they over did it with the staging, and hence a note AND a body, but I already explained that part…they were going to say someone brought her back to the house, but those pesky cops wouldn’t just leave.

John; staid, levelheaded, intelligent, left-brained, highly successful businessman that he was would never be party to the staging of such a ludicrous and inept scenario. IMO if John WAS guilty he would have done a FAR more clever coverup job than the one you are proposing. He at least would have had the sense not to leave a ransom note unless he had gotten rid of the body. .

Are we talking about the same guy who hid behind the door and let Patsy get rid of his girlfriend? The point wasn’t to be cunning and clever, the point (to have it work) was to muck it up with overkill and have stuff lead in more than one direction– and it worked didn’t it?

It's all very well for you to say yada yada yada as part of your theory but that just demonstrates to me that your theory is even too absurd for you to trouble yourself to try go into sufficient detail to expain it satisfactorily. .

Don’t be deceived…I have just been over it too many times in the last 9 years to have the desire to go through it again in infinite detail – nothing is going to change your mind, you are here to seek and destroy – the yada yada yada is more for you, as in don’t bother with a comeback it will be ludicrous anyhow!

You then seem to change tack and go on to theorise that because the police didn't leave quickly, that John had to stage 'finding' the body himself while the police were still there. You'll have to explain this to me, I simply don't follow.

That is not changing tracks at all…John had plan A. Plan A went awry. John had to move to Plan B. (Why wasn’t there dogs right away? The dogs would have found her ASAP, and they would have been out of the house). Why didn’t the police do an extensive search of the house – they would have found the body right away if they had) John must have been appalled at the inadequacies of the Keystone cops. It was time for THE BIG KIDS to arrive – he had to do something. Even JAR would have been smart enough to leave no stone unturned in searching the house – he couldn’t have HIM find the body – nopey nope nope – better move this scenario along.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

they knew they were not spending another night in the same town with a killer stalking them. This is not a difficult concept.

Not only did they spend more nights in the same town, they sent their surviving child right back to High Peaks Elementary. Why? Not a difficult concept - because they knew there was no killer stalking them.

 

[Seeker]

and family were all in Atlanta.

That's not true. The Whites were considered by the Ramsey's to be their "best friends" at the time.

 

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat
Pick a place, go ahead. Hotel, friends house? Where?

Hotel: Hows the security there? Considering you've got someone who was able to sneak into the house and kill your daughter while you slept, a hotel would be even easier.

Nice spin there. So you don't believe Lou Smitt or any of the Ramsey's PI's & special investigators then? The Ramsey's sure do...

According to all these "professionals" and as relayed by the Ramsey's themselves the perp had broken in while they were out at dinner and spent hours in the house familiarizing himself and waiting for them to come back that night.

Now how would a perp that is unknown to the Ramsey's know they were even coming back that evening?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Exactly. How would a perp unknown to the R's even know they weren't going to be back ten minutes after he got there, thus not giving him enough time to familiarize himself with the layout of the house and seek out necessary supplies for writing the ransom note? Hmmm, maybe the perp was one of the Ramseys.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Nice spin there. So you don't believe Lou Smitt or any of the Ramsey's PI's & special investigators then? The Ramsey's sure do...

According to all these "professionals" and as relayed by the Ramsey's themselves the perp had broken in while they were out at dinner and spent hours in the house familiarizing himself and waiting for them to come back that night.

Now how would a perp that is unknown to the Ramsey's know they were even coming back that evening?

Nice spin there, too. Since I do believe the intruder sneaked in while the R's were out, and laid in wait. Laying in wait is standard criminal stuff. Yet another concept not to difficult to understand, at least for professionals!

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Nice spin there, too. Since I do believe the intruder sneaked in while the R's were out, and laid in wait. Laying in wait is standard criminal stuff. Yet another concept not to difficult to understand, at least for professionals!

That's one of the very few things this perp did that was standard criminal behavior...almost every other thing s/he did was non-standard, such as not bringing your own note when kidnapping a child and not kidnapping the child despite leaving a note that says s/he was there to do just that. There's also the idea that this perp stopped to molest and strangle and bludgeon the child s/he was kidnapping...decidedly non-standard.

Still looks like a Ramsey did it to me.

 

[Seeker]

It didn't look like that's what you meant.

Considering you've got someone who was able to sneak into the house and kill your daughter while you slept, a hotel would be even easier.

It looks like you were saying the perp snuck in while the Rams were sleeping....

 

[Moab]

There is no way any investigators were going to believe either of these scenarios.

Cha-ching! BINGO...however you want to say it...you are right, and that is what they counted on!

 

[Zman]

That's not true. The Whites were considered by the Ramsey's to be their "best friends" at the time.

With friends like that who needs enemies? Just ask Miss Krebs.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

That's one of the very few things this perp did that was standard criminal behavior...almost every other thing s/he did was non-standard, such as not bringing your own note when kidnapping a child and not kidnapping the child despite leaving a note that says s/he was there to do just that. There's also the idea that this perp stopped to molest and strangle and bludgeon the child s/he was kidnapping...decidedly non-standard.

Still looks like a Ramsey did it to me.

How criminal the crime scene appears depends on your POV. If you've already decided it was an accident staged by one or more family members to look like some crazy foreigner did it, you'll likely decriminalize a lot of the potentially highly criminal aspects.

Like the black duct tape. Its rarely mentioned in posts, and yet its so criminal. Where did it come from? Where did it go?

Like the second ligature. Three slip-knot loops and a length in between. How was it really used? If you claim it was only used to tie her hands together, you could be decriminalizing it to suit your POV. Where did the cord come from and where did the remainder go?

An accident coverup requires all materials be present in the house that night. The tape and the cord aren't from the house, are they?

 

[Nehemiah]

Laying in wait is standard criminal stuff.

I agree.

What is hard for me to grasp is that the perp was backed into a windowless room, with one door, and no way out if someone had heard JB scream or came down there looking for her. That suggests a high degree of familiarity and comfort--and knowledge that s/he wouldn't be *surprised* by anyone.

 

[Zman]

I agree.

What is hard for me to grasp is that the perp was backed into a windowless room, with one door, and no way out if someone had heard JB scream or came down there looking for her. That suggests a high degree of familiarity and comfort--and knowledge that s/he wouldn't be *surprised* by anyone.

I really wish that couple would not of taken back their story about the scream. Because now we really don't know if there was a scream or not. The only people who have claimed to here it have admitted to lying.

 

[Nehemiah]

I really wish that couple would not of taken back their story about the scream. Because now we really don't know if there was a scream or not. The only people who have claimed to here it have admitted to lying.

Yes, it's unfortunate that Mrs. Stanton modified her statement. Scream or no scream, it still shows a degree of comfort in the home for the perp to be backed into a windowless room with no way out whilst s/he was dealing with a murdered child. Any LE will agree.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes, it's unfortunate that Mrs. Stanton modified her statement. Scream or no scream, it still shows a degree of comfort in the home for the perp to be backed into a windowless room with no way out whilst s/he was dealing with a murdered child. Any LE will agree.

I think thats where the RN comes in. Placed on the stairway, it acts like a tripwire for a parent wandering downstairs looking for JBR in the middle of the night. The note emphasizes that the R's not call police, with the most extreme consequences if they don't comply.

Or did the R's just have a creative writing session to go with the brutal child slaying?

 

[Seeker]

With friends like that who needs enemies? Just ask Miss Krebs.

Sure let's ask her about Uncle Johnny Ramsey who she claimed did more and more aweful stuff to her than anyone else.

Anyone stupid enough to believe her should immediately get themselves to a psychiatrist.

 

[Jayelles]

Sure let's ask her about Uncle Johnny Ramsey who she claimed did more and more aweful stuff to her than anyone else.

Anyone stupid enough to believe her should immediately get themselves to a psychiatrist.

I have always found it intriguing that some posters believe everything this woman said - with the sole exception of the Uncle Johnny bit ... and yet the so called "BORG" - who are accused of embracing any little bit of anti-ramsey dirt .... seem not to believe any of it!

I think this particular sideshow is an important measure of balanced thinking.

 

[Shanny]

I have met people just like the Ramsey's. Who would do ANYTHING to cover someone in the family with a mental illness, including denying it exsists.

Who is it that you think has a mental illness ?

 

[aussiegran]

Sure let's ask her about Uncle Johnny Ramsey who she claimed did more and more aweful stuff to her than anyone else.

Anyone stupid enough to believe her should immediately get themselves to a psychiatrist.

I have just begun reading in depth about JBR and wondered who miss krebs is ?does someone have a link to it.