The Eikelenbooms and Touch DNA

[Bittiness39]

All the more reason why the Defense went for broke at the hearings trying to get ICA's statements to LE thrown out. JMO, but they don't want to be tied into ICA's Zanny the Nanny story...whether she still thinks it is a brilliant tall tale or not.

All roads continue to lead back to their client. Not a male SODDI. No male DNA. It is significant that the results were curtailed to finding male DNA only. As other brilliant posters have mentioned...ZFG is a female...and so is her sister (the other story from the park). Zanny is a 10...not a tranny. LOL.

The Defense has pretty much locked themselves into, imo, an accidental death theory. But with the wealth of circumstantial evidence vs. ICA and ICA's own demeanor in court...if ICA continues to behave the way we have noticed she has...the jury will have an easier time believing she killed Caylee in a fit of rage and not that her death was an accident.

Like Dr. G. said in her depo...she has had tons of accidental child deaths come through her office...none of those accidental drownings nor suffocations (think a child putting a plastic bag over her head) included the child being duct taped across the mouth/nose, triple bagged and dumped in the woods on the side of the road like trash.

 

[beach]

I was thinking about this defense approach all last night - the decision to test only for male DNA. I think it was a terrible strategy regardless of the outcome. I mean so what if they discovered Casey & Caylee's DNA? From a defense perspective, that could easily be handled by saying, "Of course Caylee's DNA profile is there. And Casey is her mother so it is no suprise that her DNA is showing up either, since she had constant contact with her." I am not saying I believe any of that, but it is a decent enough explanation to create reasonable doubt in the minds of less informed jurors. Granted it wouldn't look good if their's was the ONLY DNA (which if there was any salvagable, I imagine that would be the case.) Still, I think it could be handled better than what they are facing now.

How are they going to explain not testing for Zanny? You can bet your bottom dollar that JA and LDB are going to drive that point home. And worse, why even wave a red flag in the jurors' faces that the SOD could not have been a female? IMO, the defense limited their options immeasurably with this strategy. Just not smart or well-thought out.

 

[ynotdivein]

Agreed, Beach. This was a significant tactical error on the DT's part, IMO. (Do we have a "tactical errors on the DT's part" thread yet? Hmmm...)

I really think they were hoping that GA's DNA would show up on one or both tested samples. Can you imagine the hay the DT would have made with that info? Especially if it were on the shorts <insert molester insinuations here>? Even though as Caylee's grandpa and Hopespring resident and "choreman" of the house, there would be absolutely non-criminal explanations for his DNA to be on any of those items.

A thumping setback for the DT, and very close call between GA and the bus.

 

[pip]

I agree that they didn't test for female DNA because they are jumping ship on the Zanny story. What I can't wait to see is HOW they are going to change the story without her taking the stand. Even if HHJP throws out her statements, there are the 911 calls and her statements post-arrest, after she had been read her Miranda warnings. Very curious as to how the DT will detour to "she lied about a nanny", this is what REALLY happened scenario. :waitasec: The jurors will think, uh yeah, obviously she lied... so that won't be hard, but how will they present a new scenario (SODDI) the jurors will bite into? Kronk? Flimsy. George? Flimsy. Jesse? Flimsy. Stranger? How will they tell jurors about the last time KC saw Caylee, if it wasn't at the Sawgrass Apts. or BP? I'd hate to be in the defenses shoes on this one..LOL. Good luck, Team Casey, you're gonna need it!

 

[Gma Kat]

All the more reason why the Defense went for broke at the hearings trying to get ICA's statements to LE thrown out. JMO, but they don't want to be tied into ICA's Zanny the Nanny story...whether she still thinks it is a brilliant tall tale or not.

All roads continue to lead back to their client. Not a male SODDI. No male DNA. It is significant that the results were curtailed to finding male DNA only. As other brilliant posters have mentioned...ZFG is a female...and so is her sister (the other story from the park). Zanny is a 10...not a tranny. LOL.

The Defense has pretty much locked themselves into, imo, an accidental death theory. But with the wealth of circumstantial evidence vs. ICA and ICA's own demeanor in court...if ICA continues to behave the way we have noticed she has...the jury will have an easier time believing she killed Caylee in a fit of rage and not that her death was an accident.

Like Dr. G. said in her depo...she has had tons of accidental child deaths come through her office...none of those accidental drownings nor suffocations (think a child putting a plastic bag over her head) included the child being duct taped across the mouth/nose, triple bagged and dumped in the woods on the side of the road like trash.

RE BBM :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::great::woohoo::rocker:

 

[Gma Kat]

It seems obvious that the defense was on a fishing expedition........almost as if they were awaiting these results to formulate their "final" strategy depending on the outcome.....you guys already said it, that bus just went whooshing by a few folks....they may even still be choking on the fumes........

 

[AZlawyer]

I was thinking about this defense approach all last night - the decision to test only for male DNA. I think it was a terrible strategy regardless of the outcome. I mean so what if they discovered Casey & Caylee's DNA? From a defense perspective, that could easily be handled by saying, "Of course Caylee's DNA profile is there. And Casey is her mother so it is no suprise that her DNA is showing up either, since she had constant contact with her." I am not saying I believe any of that, but it is a decent enough explanation to create reasonable doubt in the minds of less informed jurors. Granted it wouldn't look good if their's was the ONLY DNA (which if there was any salvagable, I imagine that would be the case.) Still, I think it could be handled better than what they are facing now.

How are they going to explain not testing for Zanny? You can bet your bottom dollar that JA and LDB are going to drive that point home. And worse, why even wave a red flag in the jurors' faces that the SOD could not have been a female? IMO, the defense limited their options immeasurably with this strategy. Just not smart or well-thought out.

BBM

Not if Caylee's body was supposedly left in the woods in November! Then it would be VERY suspicious to find Casey's DNA on the bag but no DNA from the kidnappers.

 

[ynotdivein]

BBM

Not if Caylee's body was supposedly left in the woods in November! Then it would be VERY suspicious to find Casey's DNA on the bag but no DNA from the kidnappers.

AZ you are so bad for my electric bill, as pretty much every time you post a new light bulb goes on over my head. :blowkiss:

 

[LyndyLoo]

BBM

Not if Caylee's body was supposedly left in the woods in November! Then it would be VERY suspicious to find Casey's DNA on the bag but no DNA from the kidnappers.

I do think this is exactly the problem the Defense has...NO other evidence of anyone elses DNA, only Casey's or possibily Cindy's even Georges would completely demolish any suggestion of anyone else doing this crime...

:floorlaugh: I have to wonder just how many scenerios's poor JB has spun in the last 2+ years??? AS they have all crashed and burned....NOW what are they going to do?:waitasec:..The walls in their office must be covered in Spaghetti Sauce, as no noodles have stuck to them:floorlaugh:

 

[spqr]

Just a another perspective...by only testing male DNA accomplishes alot for the defense.

1st...It automatically "eliminates" (by omission) Casey & Cindy

2nd...IF any MALE DNA was found (especially if no specific match to any particular person was available), would automatically cast doubt onto Kronk, Dom Casey (if needed), george and Lee (the "molesters"), any past boyfriend/lover of Casey.

In their minds creating Reasonable doubt.

It is harder for the State to prove a negative, but much harder for the defense to disprove a positive. JMO

(ETA...I don't believe them, just trying to see what they see)

 

[LyndyLoo]

I have heard this saying so many times I just cant recall.....BUT "Absence of Evidence (DNA) is not evidence of absence"...Yikes it appears that there is plenty of evidence of Casey's habits ( heart stickers) , Caylee's location just happens to be in Casey's Hangout dayz when in school, Blanket, clothing bag and maybe even "Garbage Bags" could be linked to that house!! There's enough circumstantial evidence that ONLY Casey was involved. Lack of reporting, lying to those who were trying to find Caylee, and so on....

DNA evidence tho missing ( male or female) is a throwout..no need to waste time on that avenue..suffice they connected Mitochondria DNA to identify poor Caylee.. :sick: Also, dont recall, did they get Duct Tape DNA?? Dont even know IF Duck Tape evidence is coming in:waitasec:

 

[LolaMoon08]

I was thinking about this defense approach all last night - the decision to test only for male DNA. I think it was a terrible strategy regardless of the outcome. I mean so what if they discovered Casey & Caylee's DNA? From a defense perspective, that could easily be handled by saying, "Of course Caylee's DNA profile is there. And Casey is her mother so it is no suprise that her DNA is showing up either, since she had constant contact with her." I am not saying I believe any of that, but it is a decent enough explanation to create reasonable doubt in the minds of less informed jurors. Granted it wouldn't look good if their's was the ONLY DNA (which if there was any salvagable, I imagine that would be the case.) Still, I think it could be handled better than what they are facing now.

How are they going to explain not testing for Zanny? You can bet your bottom dollar that JA and LDB are going to drive that point home. And worse, why even wave a red flag in the jurors' faces that the SOD could not have been a female? IMO, the defense limited their options immeasurably with this strategy. Just not smart or well-thought out.

But that is the thing... you would think, with Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez being the last person to be seen with an alive Caylee and the person the mother of this beautiful missing child claims this over and over again, that it would be more likely that her (ZFG) DNA would be present much more so than Casey's DNA. Even ZFG's sister Samantha and her two children (if we are going with the Jay Blanchard Park story) would be much more likely to have DNA at the scene, than Casey Anthony.

So I believe that IF it showed up that it was only Casey and Caylee's DNA and none of these other peoples DNA was present, it would prove that Casey was the last person to be with Caylee before she was tossed out into those woods.

And we all know that there would be no DNA found at that scene, if it was even possible, that belonged to anyone but Casey and Caylee.

MOO

 

[beach]

BBM

Not if Caylee's body was supposedly left in the woods in November! Then it would be VERY suspicious to find Casey's DNA on the bag but no DNA from the kidnappers.

Well yeah, you are right about that. I was thinking they might want to reconsider or at least not tie themselves down and totally commit to the "somebody planted the body when Casey was incarcerated" strategy and leave their options a little more open. I mean they are not going to be able to ignore Zanny. Like it or not, Casey married them to the Zanny story. The jury is going to hear about Zanny. So, HTH are they gonna explain their request to test for only male DNA?

Maybe their new strategy is to confuse the heck out of everyone and give them a massive headache trying to follow it. Because they have obviously done a pretty good job on me. :banghead:

 

[beach]

But that is the thing... you would think, with Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez being the last person to be seen with an alive Caylee and the person the mother of this beautiful missing child claims this over and over again, that it would be more likely that her (ZFG) DNA would be present much more so than Casey's DNA. Even ZFG's sister Samantha and her two children (if we are going with the Jay Blanchard Park story) would be much more likely to have DNA at the scene, than Casey Anthony.

So I believe that IF it showed up that it was only Casey and Caylee's DNA and none of these other peoples DNA was present, it would prove that Casey was the last person to be with Caylee before she was tossed out into those woods.

And we all know that there would be no DNA found at that scene, if it was even possible, that belonged to anyone but Casey and Caylee.

MOO

ITA. So don't ya think that the jury is going to wonder why the defense didn't want to test for Zanny's DNA?

I swear if we start to hear the defense propose that invisi-Zanny had a sex-change operation, I am outta here. lol

 

[LolaMoon08]

ITA. So don't ya think that the jury is going to wonder why the defense didn't want to test for Zanny's DNA?

I swear if we start to hear the defense propose that invisi-Zanny had a sex-change operation, I am outta here. lol

:floorlaugh: That's the beauty of this case... you just never know!!

I don't know if you've ever seen a man who has changed into a woman, but some of them are S.T.U.N.N.I.N.G. Like perfect "10" stunning!! Miami is famous for these women/men... oops, wasn't ZFG living in Miami at one point? :floorlaugh:

 

[LolaMoon08]

Well yeah, you are right about that. I was thinking they might want to reconsider or at least not tie themselves down and totally commit to the "somebody planted the body when Casey was incarcerated" strategy and leave their options a little more open. I mean they are not going to be able to ignore Zanny. Like it or not, Casey married them to the Zanny story. The jury is going to hear about Zanny. So, HTH are they gonna explain their request to test for only male DNA?

Maybe their new strategy is to confuse the heck out of everyone and give them a massive headache trying to follow it. Because they have obviously done a pretty good job on me. :banghead:

They can try and confuse the jury all they want. The State is going to lay out a clean case that the jury can understand perfectly. Who do you think the jury is going to side with? A defenses version that makes no sense, or the State's version that makes perfect sense. Casey is toast!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I have been distracted, of late, with family activities (happy ones, thank the Lord!) so have only been able to peek in here for short periods of time. So please excuse this if it has already been discussed ~ Would it be advantageous for the state to ask for a redo of the testing? Or would it only further muddy the waters? Considering the fact that the state of FL is paying the bill, I would imagine that they could request a rerun even though the test was originally ordered by the defense. . .

I guess the major risk for the state would be that if a stranger (female) dna did show up it would suggest so(f)ddi. But if only Casey and Caylee's dna was there it would put the "someone else moved the body" rants and raves to rest, wouldn't it?

 

[joypath]

ITA. So don't ya think that the jury is going to wonder why the defense didn't want to test for Zanny's DNA?

I swear if we start to hear the defense propose that invisi-Zanny had a sex-change operation, I am outta here. lol

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: THAT was some OPERATION if it also changed "invisananny's" DNA from X loci to Y loci! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[LolaMoon08]

Just a another perspective...by only testing male DNA accomplishes alot for the defense.

1st...It automatically "eliminates" (by omission) Casey & Cindy

2nd...IF any MALE DNA was found (especially if no specific match to any particular person was available), would automatically cast doubt onto Kronk, Dom Casey (if needed), george and Lee (the "molesters"), any past boyfriend/lover of Casey.

In their minds creating Reasonable doubt.

It is harder for the State to prove a negative, but much harder for the defense to disprove a positive. JMO

(ETA...I don't believe them, just trying to see what they see)

:waitasec: I don't understand this?

1) Purposely neglecting to test for female DNA when it could have excluded Casey Anthony from being the last one to be with Caylee Anthony before she was thrown out into those woods accomplishes nothing. The only thing that is has accomplished, and now that it is out there for a jury to hear at trial, is that the defense can not prove that Casey was not the one to throw Caylee out into those woods. As a matter of fact, it makes it look much more likely that Casey Anthony was the one who threw Caylee out into those woods because they purposely neglected to exclude her. Could this be an appeals issue?

2) The fact is, they found NO male DNA that can be linked back to any of these men so what have they accomplished? They have proven that none of these men had an active role in throwing Caylee out into those woods. Nice accomplishment!

Creating reasonable doubt is not what they have done here. They have actually given a jury a reason to have no doubt that Casey was the one and only person to throw Caylee out into those woods.

 

[joypath]

I have been distracted, of late, with family activities (happy ones, thank the Lord!) so have only been able to peek in here for short periods of time. So please excuse this if it has already been discussed ~ Would it be advantageous for the state to ask for a redo of the testing? Or would it only further muddy the waters? Considering the fact that the state of FL is paying the bill, I would imagine that they could request a rerun even though the test was originally ordered by the defense. . .

I guess the major risk for the state would be that if a stranger (female) dna did show up it would suggest so(f)ddi. But if only Casey and Caylee's dna was there it would put the "someone else moved the body" rants and raves to rest, wouldn't it?

:seeya: IMVERYHO :twocents: It would be an absolute WASTE to test this material again! :maddening::maddening:
It was FULL DNA tested by the FBI (IIRC) without any DNA recovery, now "we" :crazy: have a second testing performed of a "touch DNA" methodology (which should pick up minute amounts of ANY DNA) that declares that NO "Y" or male DNA is present.

:twocents: The probable "failure" of either testing protocols is IMHO :innocent: based on the FACT that the exemplars spent TOO MANY DAYS under adverse conditions!:banghead::banghead::banghead:

One thing I would DEMAND:rocker:: the bench notes and raw data! I :rocker: really WANT TO SEE the specific "order"/request that itemized WHAT type of testing be performed!



PS: :great: ExpectingUnicorns: so glad you've been having "happy times":woohoo::woohoo: