The Incinerator #2

[swedie]

In MOO inside/outside does not matter in the big picture. The fact SB said, "The devil led the vilest form of evil down my driveway, and it smiled at me before taking Tim away", tells me she was present and was able to give a description of DM and MS to LE, and she more than likely IDed them either in a line up or by photos/mugshot. I highly doubt that if they were outside, there was no adequate lighting for SB to get a good look at DM and MS.

RH may be speculating and rightfully so being as the accused showed up at TB and SB's home (later than scheduled), rang the doorbell or knocked and were possibly asked to step inside while Tim gathered his wallet, phone, keys, maybe he had to get dressed being as the perps did not show up at the arranged time, he may have decided to change into night clothes. It seems Tim was trusting enough to go on a test drive with them late at night, therefore I could see him being trusting enough to invite them to step inside their home into the entrance way. Did SB speak to them while Tim went about gathering stuff or getting dressed? Maybe so and come trial we will learn how it all played out I am sure. JMO.

Snipped from your post #98 Do you have a link indicating DM was INSIDE the house as you've suggested

I believe it is just that; a suggestion from RH. Am I correct RH? And HTH, MOO.

 

[swedie]

Say DM was with TB when TB experienced a natural death. He would derive zero benefit from not reporting this. Burning the body definitely opens him up to some charges though...so why do it?

Suppose DM caused TB's death by accident. Because of the confinement charge, I don't see that DM would be found any more innocent than if he had purposefully caused TB's death.

BBM :waitasec:

I don't see TB's death as being natural. It's been stated in numerous reports by LE and MSM TB was murdered. AND DM and MS are facing murder charges. HTH and MOO. Fat chance it was natural and if so, burning TB's body was just so disturbing then they deserve murderer charges IMHO.

It's been stated often DM is supposedly intelligent; mean to tell me that he wouldn't have known better had TB died of natural causes, he wouldn't have figured out how to called 911?! I think even not so smart people and very young children know better. So you figure DM wouldn't think an autopsy would likely show cause of death and prove he played no part in TB's death? :yuck: :scared:

An Ancaster man who went missing since last week was targeted by a group of men and murdered, Hamilton Police say.

Det.-Sgt. Matt Kavanaugh said investigators believe Bosma was targeted but would not discuss a motive.

"Police are concentrating their efforts to identify the other suspects involved in this murder investigation," Kavanaugh told a packed press conference.

Kavanaugh said Dellen Millard, the 27-year-old suspect already charged with forcible confinement and theft over $5,000 in connection to Bosma's disappearance, will be charged Wednesday with first-degree murder.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2013/05/14/police-update-tim-bosma-case

It was announced by Hamilton Police that a supect by the name of Mark Smich, of Oakville, 25, is accused of being involved in the disappearance of Bosma, who was murdered after taking two men for a test drive in his Dodge Ram truck.

http://www.insidehalton.com/news-story/3067944-oakville-man-faces-murder-charge-in-tim-bosma-case/

A Toronto man has been charged with first-degree murder in the death of a southern Ontario father who disappeared after posting his truck for sale online and taking a test drive with two men.

http://www.news1130.com/2013/05/15/toronto-man-charged-in-death-of-tim-bosma/

Toronto police are scouring the Waterloo-area farm of accused murderer Dellen Millard yet again for clues into the disappearance of a missing Toronto woman.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...t-dellen-millards-farm-after-new-information/

 

[Juballee]

In MOO inside/outside does not matter in the big picture. The fact SB said, "The devil led the vilest form of evil down my driveway, and it smiled at me before taking Tim away", tells me she was present and was able to give a description of DM and MS to LE, and she more than likely IDed them either in a line up or by photos/mugshot. I highly doubt that if they were outside, there was no adequate lighting for SB to get a good look at DM and MS.

RH may be speculating and rightfully so being as the accused showed up at TB and SB's home (later than scheduled), rang the doorbell or knocked and were possibly asked to step inside while Tim gathered his wallet, phone, keys, maybe he had to get dressed being as the perps did not show up at the arranged time, he may have decided to change into night clothes. It seems Tim was trusting enough to go on a test drive with them late at night, therefore I could see him being trusting enough to invite them to step inside their home into the entrance way. Did SB speak to them while Tim went about gathering stuff or getting dressed? Maybe so and come trial we will learn how it all played out I am sure. JMO.

Snipped from your post #98 Do you have a link indicating DM was INSIDE the house as you've suggested

I believe it is just that; a suggestion from RH. Am I correct RH? And HTH, MOO.

Personally, it think that there is a huge difference between seeing someone though a window at night and seeing someone inside your own well lit home. <modsnip> I think if SB had spoken to them as you suggest, her sound bite would say that evil lead TB out her door, not down her driveway.

 

[Snoofo]

Say DM was with TB when TB experienced a natural death. He would derive zero benefit from not reporting this. Burning the body definitely opens him up to some charges though...so why do it?

Suppose DM caused TB's death by accident. Because of the confinement charge, I don't see that DM would be found any more innocent than if he had purposefully caused TB's death.

The point of my Nelles example is let's suppose he didnt burn the body.
Not talking certainly didnt help Nelles initially, but who's to say how it would have hurt her in the long run if she did speak?

 

[Snoofo]

And most citizens think it was a "fat chance" Nelles was innocent.
All I am saying is don't be so sure. If the forensics prove DM's guilt, then he is guilty. At this point don't be so 100% sure that it does.

 

[Archangel7]

Meanwhile back at the incinerator..........

Whose vehicle had the Pintle hitch that could even move the thing? The red Dodge? Was it already stationed there? Did they have to go get it?

Did OC have the equipment there and were waiting on hot standby?

Did they drag it with the Bobcat and that's why it was seized(evidence)?

Do you think a jury will dismiss SB's testimony if she states she saw DM & MS
arrive on foot, and leave with TB never to return?

How did they arrive? By their own vehicle?
Where was it parked and why wasn't it driven like normal folk to the house? If they didn't need to return to SB's to pick up the hidden vehicle, it must have followed. So was there 2 or three suspects? Either way it's looked at, it looks suspicious and underhanded.

Then tie that with all the other(at this point probable cause)the phone traces,
the following of DM for a "reported" 4 hours, the incinerator, the burned body, the apparent "fire sale" of assets, the missing seat(s), the trailered truck at MB's, the stolen vehicles in the hangar.

Then add the direct evidence and SB looking the jury in the eye and stating that she saw (maybe even introduced?) to DM & MS and they left with TB never to return..........

I don't think a jury can get around those events, evidence, and eyewitness testimony.

 

[Snoofo]

Meanwhile back at the innerator..........

Whose vehicle had the Pintle hitch that could even move the thing? The red Dodge? Was it already stationed there? Did they have to go get it?

Did OC have the equipment there and were waiting on hot standby?

Did they drag it with the Bobcat and that's why it was seized(evidence)?

Do you think a jury will dismiss SB's testimony if she states she saw DM & MS
arrive on foot, and leave with TB never to return?

How did they arrive? By their own vehicle?
Where was it parked and why wasn't it driven like normal folk to the house? If they didn't need to return to SB's to pick up the hidden vehicle, it must have followed. So was there 2 or three suspects? Either way it's looked at, it looks suspicious and underhanded.

Then tie that with all the other(at this point probable cause)the phone traces,
the following of DM for a "reported" 4 hours, the incinerator, the burned body, the apparent "fire sale" of assets, the missing seat(s), the trailered truck at MB's, the stolen vehicles in the hangar.

Then add the direct evidence and SB looking the jury in the eye and stating that she saw (maybe even introduced?) to DM & MS and they left with TB never to return..........

I don't think a jury can get around those events, evidence, and eyewitness testimony.

Lucky you are in LE and know how to ask all the good questions. Yet your experience can only give you strong hunches, assumptions and expectations but at least for now, no absolute answers.

How does the "fire sale" make DM more guilty of murdering TB? We aren't even sure of the benefitting party of such sales.

We dont know what SB will be able to say she saw. And if it is not as clear as you imagine, there will be a cross-examination and the jury may be left with reasonable doubt. That is how it often goes.

 

[robynhood]

I will repeat myself again...TB was found dead...and his body was burned beyond a recognition..there is a incinerator on DM property...than TB truck is found in DM mother's driveway in a trailer owned by DM....and the scene goes on and on..( PB has not allowed us to hear MOST of the evidence...not a word is spoken as this is headed for trial....Le have been quoted here that DM truck followed them on a test drive...and AGAIN DM defense lawyer says ....there is a story that DM has and they are waiting for LE evidence...( ppl posted that after 4 mth it SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHARED....I ask again>>>>>WE ARE ALL WAITING TO HEAR DM story from what several posters on here say ...DM IS INNOCENT...SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO where is the story so we can all belive DM INNOCENCE?????

I do not see an answer I just see ppl asking me to produce LINKS that have been posted here.....I have done that too....so where are the " GOODS" of DM story....I hear NADIA!as in nothing...IMO...robynhood....of course no one wants to see an INNOCENT MAN in Jail for sooooooooooooo long...trial is a long way off again LATE 2014 posted in Toronto Star yesterday...tweeting Robyn as in Robynhood

 

[Juballee]

I will repeat myself again...TB was found dead...and his body was burned beyond a recognition..there is a incinerator on DM property...than TB truck is found in DM mother's driveway in a trailer owned by DM....and the scene goes on and on..( PB has not allowed us to hear MOST of the evidence...not a word is spoken as this is headed for trial....Le have been quoted here that DM truck followed them on a test drive...and AGAIN DM defense lawyer says ....there is a story that DM has and they are waiting for LE evidence...( ppl posted that after 4 mth it SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHARED....I ask again>>>>>WE ARE ALL WAITING TO HEAR DM story from what several posters on here say ...DM IS INNOCENT...SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO where is the story so we can all belive DM INNOCENCE?????

I do not see an answer I just see ppl asking me to produce LINKS that have been posted here.....I have done that too....so where are the " GOODS" of DM story....I hear NADIA!as in nothing...IMO...robynhood....of course no one wants to see an INNOCENT MAN in Jail for sooooooooooooo long...trial is a long way off again LATE 2014 posted in Toronto Star yesterday...tweeting Robyn as in Robynhood

<MODSNIP>

To me, viewing someone in a no doubt brightly light home would be a large difference from seeing someone outside in a long driveway at night in the country, where there is not as much ambient lighting as in the city. I think it is only natural to assume that the second circumstance would leave more doubt as to someone's actual ability to correctly identify the right suspects. Although it could possibly be easier to tell height and body build, things like eye colour, hair colour, scars, tattoos or facial features at that distance and in that lighting would be much harder to discern, logically.

 

[robynhood]

Meanwhile back at the incinerator..........

Whose vehicle had the Pintle hitch that could even move the thing? The red Dodge? Was it already stationed there? Did they have to go get it?

Did OC have the equipment there and were waiting on hot standby?

Did they drag it with the Bobcat and that's why it was seized(evidence)?

Do you think a jury will dismiss SB's testimony if she states she saw DM & MS
arrive on foot, and leave with TB never to return?

How did they arrive? By their own vehicle?
Where was it parked and why wasn't it driven like normal folk to the house? If they didn't need to return to SB's to pick up the hidden vehicle, it must have followed. So was there 2 or three suspects? Either way it's looked at, it looks suspicious and underhanded.

Then tie that with all the other(at this point probable cause)the phone traces,
the following of DM for a "reported" 4 hours, the incinerator, the burned body, the apparent "fire sale" of assets, the missing seat(s), the trailered truck at MB's, the stolen vehicles in the hangar.

Then add the direct evidence and SB looking the jury in the eye and stating that she saw (maybe even introduced?) to DM & MS and they left with TB never to return..........

I don't think a jury can get around those events, evidence, and eyewitness testimony.

......thanks ..you just repeated what I have said....rol...no need to repeat it ...hmmm...is there a JURY here...weighing posts....:floorlaugh:

....wow ....imo:rockon:....tis each his own....

You can wait and hear SB give hear acct as she looked them in the face NOT down a long driveway that is Persuming....IMO...and I can stated that....robynhood!

 

[Archangel7]

<MODSNIP>

To me, viewing someone in a no doubt brightly light home would be a large difference from seeing someone outside in a long driveway at night in the country, where there is not as much ambient lighting as in the city. I think it is only natural to assume that the second circumstance would leave more doubt as to someone's actual ability to correctly identify the right suspects. Although it could possibly be easier to tell height and body build, things like eye colour, hair colour, scars, tattoos or facial features at that distance and in that lighting would be much harder to discern, logically.

<MODSNIP>

On IDing suspects.......ever dawn on anyone that DM & MS are in jail, with no bail so far, simply based on things like you mentioned? Eyewitness ID... hair color scars, tattoos or facial features, likely while on SB's property and others? That and other evidence?

They are in jail for a reason. The eyewitnesses saw them. The evidence points to them. They haven't denied anything, simply that there is a "story." In our system they get an opportunity to tell their "story" and have their lawyer try his best to get a jury to forget the evidence and accept an induced by him reasonable doubt.

Are we now doubting they even were seen by SB or that they even actually showed up there? She said she saw him smile at her, I'd say to a sane, logical and reasonable person(like a jury pool ) that narrows it down to a few feet eh?

Oh, and let DP hammer SB on the witness stand over the same trivial BS, about window panes or country darkness, etc., then you can likely kiss that jury bye-bye. Surely DP is smarter than that???

I seriously doubt it will come to SB taking the stand, but if it does it is almost a no win for DP & Co.

 

[swedie]

SB was able to give a description of the accused who showed up at their residence. It obviously matched the description of the BO's description and he was able to add the details of tattoos. HTH. Interesting rereading over some old articles. New information jumps out it seems. Second paragraph seems reassuring LE have the right guys. I'm also beginning to believe if SB and TM had surveillance at their home, it would have caught the perps arriving. It's apparent someone's surveillance caught DM's Yukon at the bottom of their driveway, following TB's truck away from his home. I can see how it would be hard to determine what make of vehicle from that distance if the camera was on their house, but once the accused was caught, I'm certain further viewing of the video would have clarified the model which was owned by DM. Also LE's uncertainty about how many suspects were involved. At a distance, at night, it would be hard to determine if MS got out of TB's truck at the end of the lane way. MOO.

&#8220;An investigation has now revealed Tim Bosma has been murdered. His body was burned beyond recognition,&#8221; Det.-Sgt. Matt Kavanagh said during the afternoon news conference.

Kavanagh wouldn&#8217;t say how police were able to confirm the identity of the remains, saying &#8220;that&#8217;s part of the evidence.&#8221; He said from the evidence police had gathered, he believes Bosma died the night he left his home.

Kavanagh said they were able to retrieve video surveillance which shows a second vehicle followed the three men in the truck as it left the residence.

At this point, although investigators believe Bosma was targeted by the men, they are still unclear of the suspects&#8217; reason for the attack.

Police have only released the description of one of the suspects still wanted in the case. This man was described by both Bosma&#8217;s wife and an Etobicoke man who was also reportedly approached by the suspects when he listed his Dodge Ram 3500 for sale. Kavanagh said last week that he believes the Etobicoke man wasn&#8217;t attack.

Read more: http://www.cp24.com/news/at-least-t...-murder-investigation-1.1280534#ixzz2fwq7FoNv

 

[robynhood]

I like what you said again..Archangel..BUT lets take a sec here to remember SB interview on T.v.and her activist role in helping other victims ....JMHO...I cannot see her not wanting to take the stand and tell the JURY exactly what she saw when they took TB for that test drive...take a moment to think about it...please...she spoke clearly at her darkest moment TB memorial...It obvious like you said she had a clear picof TB & MS ...as you stated...OBVIOUS...we do not have to post links....everyone can hear it turn to TB memorial....under a HUGE PB she gother message across to all who LISTEN!....YES that is only poart of the reason THEY ARE IN jail....thanks again " AR" post #111...above...robynhood...

 

[swedie]

Snoofo and BQ you were asking for a link from Robynhood in your recent posts. Hope you don't mind me providing a link for you Robyn. HTH.

Seems pretty clear to me they were in TB and SB's house. Otherwise it wouldn't have been written up so precisely. The writer would have said leaving his property or leaving in his truck or something other then exacting the word house in the sentence. Notice it says with two men also...To be leaving his house, one would have to go out the door. I believe this information may have come from SB. MOO and HTH.

Bosma went missing on May 6, after leaving his house with two men who'd arranged to test drive the pickup truck he'd advertised for sale online.

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-story/4075708-jail-visits-with-tim-bosma-s-accused-killers/

 

[Somegirl]

I've been reading the posts on this message board since TB went missing. This is my first post so please excuse the fact that I don't know how to quote properly. I am responding to the questions raised about the barrels found in the barn at DM's farm... I recalled many months ago, reading about a guy who was connected to DM facebook page, who had posted something online about his boss using airline fuel to race his jeep in the Baja 500. I am including this previous post below. It came up in a previous post in one of the websleuths forums. Perhaps this us why the barrels were stored, although I have no doubt they could have many additional uses... MOO. I hope this is ok...

roseofsharon, zwiebel
#486
05-13-2013, 04:19 PM
canadiangirl
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 525
Check out post #15 on that forum - BBM:
<snip>
My boss owns an airline and I work at the airport on this stuff so we have access to 100 low lead airplane fuel which we run in most of his toys.. We just ran in the Baja 500 in a jeep TJ with a bored and stroke 4.0L inline 6 that is now 4.6L.. We ran the 100LL in that and it didnt ping at all with 12.5:1 compression and an iron head..

Hopefully these heads will work, my boss bought the engine as a package deal and he doesnt really know much about the parts he buys.. I tried to tell him to go with AFR's as thats what my machine shop recommends also but he doesnt want to do that. If they blow off hopefully it doesnt wreck anything else and I can get the AFR's after all..

Shane.
__________________
~ Unless it's a link from MSM, all comments are JMO ~

 

[Snoofo]

Thanks Somegirl!
Wow some of the things that didnt seem so relevant to anything back then do have possibilities now.
Thoughts on DM not knowing anything about the parts he buys?
This guy tells him what he wants/needs.
What's an AFR?

 

[Sillybilly]

<MODSNIP>

To me, viewing someone in a no doubt brightly light home would be a large difference from seeing someone outside in a long driveway at night in the country, where there is not as much ambient lighting as in the city. I think it is only natural to assume that the second circumstance would leave more doubt as to someone's actual ability to correctly identify the right suspects. Although it could possibly be easier to tell height and body build, things like eye colour, hair colour, scars, tattoos or facial features at that distance and in that lighting would be much harder to discern, logically.

Big house like that in the country, we don't know for sure, but I would hazard a guess that the Bosma home had motion detection lights that would flood the driveway well enough to see clearly a fair distance.

 

[Sillybilly]

... "My boss owns an airline and I work at the airport on this stuff so we have access to 100 low lead airplane fuel which we run in most of his toys ..."

Thanks Somegirl .. I had been looking for that post

And just for the record, it was made on the ff forum July 7 2011, so it further supports that the hangar was being used to accommodate DM's "toys" back in the day.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thanks Somegirl!
Wow some of the things that didnt seem so relevant to anything back then do have possibilities now.
Thoughts on DM not knowing anything about the parts he buys?
This guy tells him what he wants/needs.
What's an AFR?

<bbm>

Makes me question WHY DM was in the biz at all if he wasn't interested enough and didn't know it well enough to understand the basics wrt parts.

If I was passionately interested in something as a hobby, I would learn or at least try to learn, all about every aspect of my hobby. The only reason I would be involved in a business I knew nothing about would be to get rich.

 

[Variant]

Thanks Somegirl!
Wow some of the things that didnt seem so relevant to anything back then do have possibilities now.
Thoughts on DM not knowing anything about the parts he buys?
This guy tells him what he wants/needs.
What's an AFR?

May be Air Flow Research, an aftermarket builder of cylinder heads used in racing, including NASCAR. However I'm not aware of them making anything for the Jeep six, usually Chev and Ford engines.