The Incinerator

[SnooperDuper]

There was reference to DM and his friends seen at the house in Etobicoke on the Wednesday. Also the same night the trailer holding TB's truck arrived at the home of MB.
Moo since I'm too tired to search for the articles to link.

He was last seen by neighbours Wednesday evening working outside on his house with a few other men.

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/05/12/hamilton-bosma-mother.html

BD, who also lives on Tinsmith, said he saw someone bringing the black trailer in on Wednesday night, while BD and his son were watching the Maple Leafs game.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/12/tim_bosmas_mom_makes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

 

[lanman]

Interesting story:

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3876880-dundas-native-one-of-canada-s-leading-forensic-experts/

" You can see Rogers' yellow Volkswagen Beetle in photos from the Waterloo-area farm owned by accused murderer Dellen Millard where Bosma's charred remains were recovered back in May.

"Yes, that's my car," the 47-year-old admitted, but that's as much as she'll say.

 

[matou]

Excellent article about the forensic anthropologist in the Tim Bosma case. The article makes it seem that she was dealing with burnt remains, IMO.

It’s her job to find the stories behind the bones.
Even when police describe remains as “beyond recognition,” Rogers says there is still much that can be determined from even small pieces of bone.
Even a burned body – she has encountered several – is not the same as the remains you would receive from a commercial crematorium, which are processed into a clean ash.
“Medical records, dental records, those are the type of things that help us identify people … I mean, beyond recognition could mean your facial features are no longer visible, your finger prints are no longer visible,” she says.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...sic_expert_examines_dellen_millards_farm.html

 

[FastLikeLight]

Excellent article about the forensic anthropologist in the Tim Bosma case. The article makes it seem that she was dealing with burnt remains, IMO.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...sic_expert_examines_dellen_millards_farm.html

imo, the anthropologist told "no comments", and the journalist wrote what was (un)known.

 

[swedie]

Agreed. It is an excellent article Matou. :seeya: What I find informative/interesting it this part I bolded:

"Medical records, dental records, those are the type of things that help us identify people … I mean, 'beyond recognition' could mean your facial features are no longer visible, your fingerprints are no longer visible," she said.

It is JMO but I don't believe TB was burnt to just ashes or even a few bone fragments. What makes me believe this is the fact that LE came back with Tim's identification quite quickly. IIRC it was the same day his remains were discovered. If TB would have been burnt to only a pile of ashes and a few bones/teeth, I would assume positive identification would have taken longer than a day. Was it even a day? From the reports there is nothing (unless I've missed it) which indicated LE were waiting on tests to confirm TB's identification. They were able to ID him from what was left of him IMHO. Even IDing someone through dental work would take some time wouldn't you think?

It's highly possible the incinerator was meant to be used for disposing of TB's body but it's a possibility the perps ran into trouble operating it, and the dastardly job was not finished. Maybe they did put TB into the incinerator and couldn't get it started, or they ran out of fuel. So then did they then pour in some accelerant and a match hoping that would do the job? I watched the video from the site of The Eliminatorand near the end of the video it goes into troubleshooting. If the perps ran out of fuel, they would have had to take the trailer with incinerator somewhere to fuel up. I don't think they would have taken that risk considering the attention this case was getting and the perps description out there to the public.

I am just assuming that once TB's disappearance was announced to the public and the description of the tattoo was made known, someone who knew DM called in a tip pointing a finger at him, and I would not be surprised if he was being watched and follow by LE. DM probably knew this or sensed it and refrained from going back to the farmland to finish the job.

Yes it is very telling as to why DM would purchase an incinerator, at least IMO. He was obviously up to no good and getting rid of evidence of all sorts. Which leads me to believe there was more than TB. Because of the PB, I highly doubt we will be privy to other discoveries made through the incinerator. JMO

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3876880-dundas-native-one-of-canada-s-leading-forensic-experts/

 

[SnooperDuper]

Agreed. It is an excellent article Matou. :seeya: What I find informative/interesting it this part I bolded:

"Medical records, dental records, those are the type of things that help us identify people … I mean, 'beyond recognition' could mean your facial features are no longer visible, your fingerprints are no longer visible," she said.

It is JMO but I don't believe TB was burnt to just ashes or even a few bone fragments. What makes me believe this is the fact that LE came back with Tim's identification quite quickly. IIRC it was the same day his remains were discovered. If TB would have been burnt to only a pile of ashes and a few bones/teeth, I would assume positive identification would have taken longer than a day. Was it even a day? From the reports there is nothing (unless I've missed it) which indicated LE were waiting on tests to confirm TB's identification. They were able to ID him from what was left of him IMHO. Even IDing someone through dental work would take some time wouldn't you think?

It's highly possible the incinerator was meant to be used for disposing of TB's body but it's a possibility the perps ran into trouble operating it, and the dastardly job was not finished. Maybe they did put TB into the incinerator and couldn't get it started, or they ran out of fuel. So then did they then pour in some accelerant and a match hoping that would do the job? I watched the video from the site of The Eliminatorand near the end of the video it goes into troubleshooting. If the perps ran out of fuel, they would have had to take the trailer with incinerator somewhere to fuel up. I don't think they would have taken that risk considering the attention this case was getting and the perps description out there to the public.

I am just assuming that once TB's disappearance was announced to the public and the description of the tattoo was made known, someone who knew DM called in a tip pointing a finger at him, and I would not be surprised if he was being watched and follow by LE. DM probably knew this or sensed it and refrained from going back to the farmland to finish the job.

Yes it is very telling as to why DM would purchase an incinerator, at least IMO. He was obviously up to no good and getting rid of evidence of all sorts. Which leads me to believe there was more than TB. Because of the PB, I highly doubt we will be privy to other discoveries made through the incinerator. JMO

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3876880-dundas-native-one-of-canada-s-leading-forensic-experts/

You have to remember, the day LE announces an event is not the same day they make the discovery. E.g. DM's arrest was announced a day after it happened, the incinerator's existence was announced 6 days after, etc. It is totally possible TB's remains were found on the 10th when LE first arrived at the site, identification was made over the next few days, and it was announced 4 days later.

The anthropologist discussed cases where there were small pieces, burning, etc., i.e., a range of situations. None of this is telling as she clearly stated, she cannot talk about the case. She did talk about the what ifs, e.g. how they deal with small pieces, but she did not confirm anything either way.

Interestingly enough, the detailed description of the suspects that included information about the 'ambition' tattoo was not released until May 10, the day LE arrested DM. So why issue the description when they had their man already? To strike fear in the other suspect(s) I suppose. To let them know the net was closing in on them.

ETA: link to press conference when 'ambition' tattoo is first mentioned May 10 http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/10/tim-bosma-missing-persons_n_3254021.html

 

[Sillybilly]

Interestingly enough, the detailed description of the suspects that included information about the 'ambition' tattoo was not released until May 10, the day LE arrested DM. So why issue the description when they had their man already? To strike fear in the other suspect(s) I suppose. To let them know the net was closing in on them.

ETA: link to press conference when 'ambition' tattoo is first mentioned May 10 http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/10/tim-bosma-missing-persons_n_3254021.html

<rsbm>

The info on the tatt was released early on the Friday morning (we had it on here WS around 8:00 AMish) and DM was arrested later that day (for some reason, I seem to recall it was in the evening, but I don't have time today to search on that).

 

[SnooperDuper]

<rsbm>

The info on the tatt was released early on the Friday morning (we had it on here WS around 8:00 AMish) and DM was arrested later that day (for some reason, I seem to recall it was in the evening, but I don't have time today to search on that).

Yes, both Friday May 10

Millard was arrested on Cawthra Rd. late Friday afternoon while driving his GMC Yukon, according to Paradkar.

[...]

Police tracked Millard down from a tip that came in after they released a description of his unique &#8220;Ambition&#8221; wrist tattoo.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/13/tim_bosma_dellen_millard_suspect_in_truck_owners_disappearance_not_talking_lawyer_says.html

I had always thought that the burner phone was the link to DM, somehow, but I guess the tattoo really was the clincher.

 

[skatergirl]

Yes, both Friday May 10

Millard was arrested on Cawthra Rd. late Friday afternoon while driving his GMC Yukon, according to Paradkar.

[...]

Police tracked Millard down from a tip that came in after they released a description of his unique “Ambition” wrist tattoo.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/13/tim_bosma_dellen_millard_suspect_in_truck_owners_disappearance_not_talking_lawyer_says.html

I had always thought that the burner phone was the link to DM, somehow, but I guess the tattoo really was the clincher.

Just finished posting about DM being tracked down in another thread, it seems now there are some conflicting statements
Police tracked Millard down from a tip that came in after they released a description of his unique “Ambition” wrist tattoo.
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...rs_disappearance_not_talking_lawyer_says.html
This statement has not been accredited to anyone in particular just 'Police' in general

However, “no other vehicle” can be seen on surveillance video in that area, Kavanagh said. The cellphone led investigators to Millard, he added.
http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/3242980-bosma-found-dead-in-region/
However, this quote is directly credited to Kavanagh. bbm

 

[lanman]

Just finished posting about DM being tracked down in another thread, it seems now there are some conflicting statements
Police tracked Millard down from a tip that came in after they released a description of his unique “Ambition” wrist tattoo.
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...rs_disappearance_not_talking_lawyer_says.html
This statement has not been accredited to anyone in particular just 'Police' in general

However, “no other vehicle” can be seen on surveillance video in that area, Kavanagh said. The cellphone led investigators to Millard, he added.
http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/3242980-bosma-found-dead-in-region/
However, this quote is directly credited to Kavanagh. bbm

From what we know, the cell phone led them to another person in Toronto that owned a similar truck who gave a test drive to two suspicious characters. One of those characters had a tattoo. LE put out a description of the tattoo, and that led to the arrest of DM. So, the tattoo led them to DM directly, and the cell phone led them to the tattoo indirectly. Therefore IMO the two stories you posted do not conflict at all.

 

[puppyraiser]

Does anyone recall if there was a propane tank in photos taken up by the barn? I wouldn't imagine someone would tow that incinerator to the local propane supplier too often to fill it up, would they? Might cause some questions?

If it had been used once (or twice) for whatever reason(s), maybe it ran out of propane?

 

[Archangel7]

Does anyone recall if there was a propane tank in photos taken up by the barn? I wouldn't imagine someone would tow that incinerator to the local propane supplier too often to fill it up, would they? Might cause some questions?

If it had been used once (or twice) for whatever reason(s), maybe it ran out of propane?

I saw no tanks FWIW. There is a gas meter IIRC, in front, out at the road but wouldn't be much help for propane.

 

[Snoofo]

Whats the white tank on the trailer with the incinerator in the neighbour's pic? (Google eliminator incinerator for quick reference.)

 

[expat cdn]

Does anyone else think that perhaps the anthropologist was called in because LE suspect there are more than one set of remains? Maybe Laura Babcock?

 

[Snoofo]

Depends. Did she come with Hamilton Police or TPS?

I think they will bring in every expert they can IMO when looking for even one complete set. If Kavanagh said they didnt know whether the incinerator was used (or something to that effect) on TB then theres a lot to figure out and the more experts the better. JMO

Also they are digging on a former hog farm. They may be coming across a lot of remains under the earth that resemble human remains. JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

[/B]

IIRC LE obtained search warrants on the 11th and 12th to search DM's property according to the video. As I mentioned in one of my above posts and posted the definition, I would think generally speaking LE will refer to a deceased person's body as remains. If DM was guilty, he may not have went back to the farmland because he knew or was paranoid he was being followed or watched. All JMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qPVdl21Qrio

You have to remember, the day LE announces an event is not the same day they make the discovery. E.g. DM's arrest was announced a day after it happened, the incinerator's existence was announced 6 days after, etc. It is totally possible TB's remains were found on the 10th when LE first arrived at the site, identification was made over the next few days, and it was announced 4 days later.

I agree with Swedie. If the body was found on the 10th, it wasn't found at the farm. LE didn't start searching the farm until Monday, the 13th. If LE was there since Friday, it was only to secure the property until the warrants came in, as they did with the hangar. Tuesday, they announced that the body was found.

The search for Tim Bosma has extended to a rural farm property owned by the Millard family, as police narrowed in on Waterloo Monday.

On Monday, police focused their search for Bosma in Waterloo Region, where they were executing search warrants.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2875121-command-centre-set-up-at-millard-farm-in-waterloo-region/

On Monday, Hamilton Police were busy searching two locations in the region — a hangar at the Region of Waterloo International Airport, and a rural farm property in North Dumfries Township — as they continue to investigate the mysterious disappearance of Tim Bosma.

On Monday, forensic identification officers took photographs of Millard Air Hangar 53 as they walked around the perimeter. Shortly after noon, a forensic vehicle parked outside a hangar door, and officers were seen entering the building.

Police had been guarding the hangar over the weekend, following Millard’s arrest.

http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/3242933-tim-bosma-police-search-focused-in-waterloo-region/

On Monday, the search had extended to a rural farm property owned by the Millard family.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/14/tim_bosma_dellen_millard_to_be_charged_with_murder.html

JMO

 

[puppyraiser]

Whats the white tank on the trailer with the incinerator in the neighbour's pic? (Google eliminator incinerator for quick reference.)

I realize that is a propane tank on trailer in the picture. I'm just wondering how DM would have filled that tank if he didn't have a stationary one on the farm.

On another note, I believe the anthropologist was brought in to help them determine human from animal bone during the sifting process.

 

[Archangel7]

I realize that is a propane tank on trailer in the picture. I'm just wondering how DM would have filled that tank if he didn't have a stationary one on the farm.

On another note, I believe the anthropologist was brought in to help them determine human from animal bone during the sifting process.

FYI....while I was searching photos for something else, I looked for your propane tank. That is when I ran across the NatGas piping out by the road.
I didn't see a stationary tank but you bring up a valid point of investigation. Where's the nearest supply, how many times filled, who filled, etc.

I didn't get a good look around the equipment far behind the barn, however I would think a tank would be closer to the barn area/road for servicing by the bulk supplier.

On the bone doctor:
In addition to your comment. She will likely give them the info on what goes where and most importantly, what might be missing.
That would help cover any possible motive or a second scene.
moo

 

[puppyraiser]

FYI....while I was searching photos for something else, I looked for your propane tank. That is when I ran across the NatGas piping out by the road.
I didn't see a stationary tank but you bring up a valid point of investigation. Where's the nearest supply, how many times filled, who filled, etc.

I didn't get a good look around the equipment far behind the barn, however I would think a tank would be closer to the barn area/road for servicing by the bulk supplier.

On the bone doctor:
In addition to your comment. She will likely give them the info on what goes where and most importantly, what might be missing.
That would help cover any possible motive or a second scene.
moo

That's where I was headed with bringing up the portable tank on the trailer. Most farms have stationary tanks close to outbuildings to fill tractors and other machinery. I didn't see anything up by the barn but it's hard to say if there is a tank in an area the photos didn't cover. And would it have been propane or diesel even if there was one? DM had two other pieces of equipment as well that would require fuel of some type. He also had a portable generator that requires a fuel source. How was he filling these machines?

 

[MamaDukes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vFDhn6rOuBA#at=1173 In this interview @ 16:36 Gary Clewley says that Tim Bosma was "burned in a barrel" Clewley is billed as a "prominent defence lawyer. However, he mainly defends rogue cops, and therefore has a very different relationship to police from most of the defence bar. I am left wondering if he mispoke, or if one of his buddies gave him some inside info?