The Ligatures

[DeDee]

Bumping to compare/contrast with otg's theory about the knots, etc...

Cords, Knots, and Strangulation Devices - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

The ligatures were not stage props they were functional, they were used to pose the body. The reason there is 17" of cord from the loop around the neck to the handle is the handle had to clear the head as it was brought up behind the head and placed into a holder or one end of the stick was placed into a hole with the other end protruding out. This raised the torso to a vertical position, either seated, kneeling or on the feet. I don't think there was a free hanging suspension. The reason there was 15" of cord between the loops on the wrists is that cord was brought up over the head and placed over whatever held the handle or over the protruding end of the stick. This raised the arms to an upright postition, the same position they were found in in rigor. The 15" of cord between the wrist loops would not have restricted movement of the arms much at all and could not have fooled investigators as being a binding. The ligatures were not constructed to decieve police. They were functional as posing devices. This is a classic posing of a body after death for reasons known only to the perpetrator. The raising of arms has well known symbolism; surrender, praise, beseeching and others. Whatever it meant to Patsy can only guessed, mine is it had something to do with Victory!

This is my opinion.

This most intriguing PDI theory of yours, BlueBottle, is filled with deep psychological and behavioral issues.

I believe PR premeditated this child's death for months, if not for longer, for a multitude of reasons.

In order to be capable of obtaining that insidious goal, the killer had to be in need of deep psychological help.

Afterward, Patsy embarked on an immediate regiment prescription medications such as Valium, which she near overdosed on for a while to help numb her thoughts and help her forget what she had done. And she did forget. Most of it. She confessed to hearing flashbacks of JonBenet's chilling scream. How so, Patsy, if you weren't there?


BlueBottle, can you tie your theory into some of the solid evidence that we have available? An elaboration on how your theory works with the forensic evidence would be of great interest. When you have the opportunity, of course.

OMO

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

The evidence that I provide is the commonalities between books and movies that Patsy was known to have been associated with and the ransom note and general facts of the case. Also the lack of functionality of the ligatures as described by the accident/cover-up theory ( bad staging ) undermines that theory, whereas the functionality of the ligatures as described for posing is evidence that supports the deliberate theory. As follows:

The ligatures were not stage props they were functional, they were used to pose the body. The reason there was 17" of cord from the loop around the neck to the handle is the handle had to clear the head as it was brought up behind the head and placed into a holder or one end of the stick was placed into a hole with the other end protruding out. This raised the torso to a vertical position, either seated, kneeling or on the feet. I don't think there was a free hanging suspension. The reason there was 15" of cord between the loops on the wrists is that cord was brought up over the head and placed over whatever held the handle or over the protruding end of the stick. This raised the arms to an upright postition, the same position they were found in in rigor. The 15" of cord between the wrist loops would not have restricted movement of the arms much at all and could not have fooled investigators as being a binding. The ligatures were not constructed to decieve police. They were functional as posing devices. This is a classic posing of a body after death for reasons known only to the perpetrator. The raising of arms has well known symbolism, surrender, praise, beseeching and others. Whatever it meant to Patsy can only guessed, mine is it had something to do with Victory!

It is not a coincidence that the ligatures used as described above produce the same position the body was found in.

The bruising on the lower neck indicate an intial strangulation which lessens the probablity that the final position of the neck ligature was also for that purpose.

The "set up" as Patsy called it was the bowl with pineapple and spoon next to a glass with a tea bag found on the dining room table.
The "set up" was most likely the source of the pineapple found in JonBenet's proximal intestine at autopsy.
The "set up" was most likely put together BEFORE JonBenet was killed.
The "set up" also included milk or cream in the bowl of pineapple, which is something most people do not know.
The "set up" has several items that match a scene in The Prime Of Miss Jean Brodie by Muriel Spark:

"Sandy Stranger had a feeling at the time that they were supposed to be the happiest days of her life, and on her tenth birthday she said so to her best friend Jenny Gray who had been asked to TEA at Sandy's house. The speciality of the feast was PINEAPPLE CUBES WITH CREAM, and the speciality of the day was that they were left to themselves. To Sandy the unfamiliar PINEAPPLE had the authentic taste and appearance of happiness and she focussed her small eyes closely on the pale gold cubes before she scooped them up in her SPOON, and she ... Both girls saved the CREAM to the last, then ate it in SPOONFULS."

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...?t=9490&page=2

18 LOU SMIT: That's why I wanted to show you
19 the picture. I just didn't know what you had heard
20 of this thing. I'm going to show you what's called
21 a picture of 414.
22 This is a photograph that's taken of the dining
23 room table. And it shows various things on the
24 dining room table.

2 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
3 LOU SMIT: What else do you see on there?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I see a glass with what looks
5 like (INAUDIBLE). Tissues on the glass.
7 LOU SMIT: Do you have any idea how that got
8 on that table?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: It might have been (INAUDIBLE)
10 that's a big bowl.
11 LOU SMIT: I'm going to straighten out the
12 picture so we'll want a close up of everything.
13 This is a photograph of 417. what does that
14 represent there?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's a large spoon, not
16 a teaspoon. It looks like Patsy's good silver. I
17 guess that could be pineapple, I can't tell. But
18 it could be. Some people (INAUDIBLE) pineapple to
19 make it old and there's this teabag in an empty
20 glass. I can't tell, but it looks like there is
21 some milk or something.
22 LOU SMIT: Who do you know would eat
23 pineapple like that? Do you have any idea?



If John and Patsy, not being criminals themselves, used crime books and movies to stage and blame a crime on an intruder after accidentally injuring JonBenet to the point of death, then what was the "set up" doing put togerther BEFORE JonBenet died?

The answer is there was no accident, there was no staging for police and the literature tied to the case is an indication of the state of mind of the sole perpetrator; Patsy.

My opinion.
__________________

 

[DeDee]

You have described a planned and orchestrated [religious] ritualistic sacrifice/killing. It fits with my theory, as well. If you don't mind, I have many other questions to ask; however, I will try to keep it simple.



1. How were the cheek, back and above the ankle abrasions caused?


Most people see Patsy as pretty, beauty queen, sweet, soft-spoken, Southern Belle. They cannot envision that nice, religious mothers would harm their child with a stun gun, even considering all of that wetting and soiling and snappy attitude.

However, we see evidence of the twin stun gun marks on the leg of JB when she is modeling the red and white sundress on the porch with bare feet.



2. Where in the home, and in what order, do you feel the injuries, including the sexual assault, occurred?


I must admit it does appear there was an initial strangulation and then the head bash about an hour after eating the set up of pineapple happiness.

Everything thing else needed; another set up: the cord, the tape, the paintbrush, the size 12s, the white blanket was waiting downstairs in the basement.



3. The blue Samsonite luggage held a blue sham and duvet that left fibers on JonBenét's body in several key places. What role does the blue duvet play in the event?


Patsy set up the suitcase, with its contents of the blue sham, duvet and the adult Dr. Seuss book of nude drawings, under the window for a reason.

Perhaps JR knew why and was thrilled when Lou Smit suggested it was a way for the intruder to exit the home. Why would an intruder choose the unstable suitcase as a step ladder when he had to walk past a red step stool and a wooden chair to get to the window?



4. If this was all PDI, why were JRs black Israeli shirt fibers found on JonBenét in a private place where they should not have been?


I feel that PR intentionally incriminated her husband by wiping her daughter with JRs Israeli shirt.


Exclusively MOO

 

[Frigga]

DeDee,

Do you think JR had been molesting JonBenet? Had Patsy known about it, if so? I am interested in what you think/believe happened, very much. TIA

 

[DeDee]

The short answer is yes, Frigga, although, if I may, expound upon that.

I was encapsulated by this case for many years, from the very beginning. I insisted an IDI because I could not bear the thought of it being her own parents. The darnest thing to explain is the pineapple, as an IDI, but I held fast that the intruder knew she loved a pineapple snack.

After being solid IDI for years, and then coming back to the case following a sabbatical, I soon became PDI all the way, because, more than anything, if a family member was involved, surely it was only one of them, right? And she wrote the RN, right? To nail Patsy, everyone else needs to be excluded, imo.

The prior sexual abuse is a problem for PDI, although some moms do sexually abuse their children. In for a penny, in for a pound. I was PDI all for the longest time.

The only evidence tying JR to the CS is the Israeli shirt fibers on the victim's vaginal area. I figured Patsy wiped her daughter with her husband's shirt to implicate him and I still do believe that is what happened. Only, the reason she did it, in my theory, has changed.

I've read countless statement analyses on the RN and studied two of them in great detail with one of those being Dr. Andrew Hodges' book. Patsy left numerous clues at the CS indicating John was sexually abusing their daughter that I first discovered while studying the RN.

For example, on pg 2 of the RN it begins with:

"money and hence. a earlier
delivery/pick-up of your daughter."

My apologies for not knowing the code to scratch through the word delivery and replace it with "pick-up" as the author did.

There are 2 mistakes in the first line and 1 in the second line. 3 mistakes already. Why not start over on a clean piece of paper? She had almost an entire pad of paper. She didn't start over because every single "error" or "mistake" was intentional except for one that she found while proofreading and wrote a carat meant for inserting the word "not".

IMO, the word "delivery" was changed to "pick-up" as in JB has become his "hooker".

"If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies."

Patsy killed JonBenét because JR tampered with her and left his mark.

"I advise you not to provoke them."

I told you to stop messing around with JonBenét. You didn't listen. You provoked me, John.

"You can try to deceive us but be warned"

John, you tried to deceive me after I warned you.

"It's up to you now, John!"

You are the one who got us into this mess so spend your bonus and get us out.


Notice the way the author wrote the word unharmed on pg 1 on the 7th line of the body. Her conscious will barely allow her to etch the word unharmed because she knows it is a lie.


Many words and phrases emphasize Patsy's scary cancer experience:

* follow our instructions
* Make sure you...
* When you get home, you will...
* exhausting
* monitor
* scanned
* electronic devices
* under constant scrutiny
* you stand a 100% chance


The author writes the word "delivery" four times and marks it out that once to replace it with pick-up. As in:

Deliver me to Victory! I am a sinner but I am Saved By The Cross.

"So don't think that killing will be difficult."

To me this indicates, among other things, that the complex ransom note, or at the very least, a complete practice ransom note was scribed, in advance, hiding inside the white pad, before the killing began and torn out when the time was at hand.


The size 12 Bloomies also scream "look down here carefully where these nutty size 12 panties are covering my size 6 private places. This is why I am dead."

"money and hence. a earlier
delivery/pick-up of your daughter."

I have not yet determined a final theory on why she placed a period after the word hence. It may be to emphasize what comes next: "a earlier pick-up of your daughter". The RN is rich with information and ambiguity.

OMO

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

1. Dunno
2. Dunno, strangulation, posing, head blow, redressing, violation.
3. Don't remember fibers from sham on the body.
4. Transfer

IMO, there was no stun gun and John was not the abuser.

 

[DeDee]

Fibers from Sham & Duvet
•Where Found. A sham and duvet were found in the suitcase beneath the train room window.
•Match to Fibers on JBR? "A CBI examiner issued a report indicating fibers from the pillow sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape from her hand, on the hand ligature and inside the body bag." This is the lab report referenced in the Carnes opinion: "A lab report indicated that fibers from the sham and duvet were found on the shirt that JonBenet was wearing when she was found in the wine cellar. (SMF P 147; PSMF P 147.)" (Carnes 2003:Note 32, p. 68).

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682473/Fiber Evidence




32 The suitcase contained a pillow sham, duvet and Dr. Seuss book. These items belonged to defendants, but they have indicated that the items were not normally stored in the suitcase. (SMF 146; PSMF 146.) A lab report indicated that fibers from the sham and duvet were found on the shirt that JonBenet was wearing when she was found in the wine cellar. (SMF 147; PSMF 147.)

http://www.acandyrose.com/03312003carnes61-70.htm

 

[Anti-K]

1. Dunno
2. Dunno, strangulation, posing, head blow, redressing, violation.
3. Don't remember fibers from sham on the body.
4. Transfer

IMO, there was no stun gun and John was not the abuser.

CBI said that fibers consistent with the duvet/sham (found in the suitcase) were found on the outside of the victim’s shirt, in the genital area, on the tape and on the wrist ligature.

FBI said the fibers did NOT come from the sham/duvet.
...

AK

 

[DeDee]

More specifically,

Fibers from Sham & Duvet
•Where Found. A sham and duvet were found in the suitcase beneath the train room window.

•Match to Fibers on JBR? "A CBI examiner issued a report indicating fibers from the pillow sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape from her hand, on the hand ligature and inside the body bag." This is the lab report referenced in the Carnes opinion: "A lab report indicated that fibers from the sham and duvet were found on the shirt that JonBenet was wearing when she was found in the wine cellar. (SMF P 147; PSMF P 147.)" (Carnes 2003:Note 32, p. 68).

•Fibers on JBR Unmatched? However, it also has been reported “FBI analysis: FBI examiners said the fibers on JonBenet came from a source other than the pillow sham and comforter -- but none of them matched anything else in the house. "If the FBI examiner is right, the killer had to take that piece of material out with him," Smit said.”

****
Well, they both cannot be right. If the CBI and the FBI results on the duvet are dubious then their tests would be performed again for trial purposes.

In his deposition, Steve Thomas swore he was well aware of CBIs findings but he not aware of the reported FBI's findings Smit attested to.

I suppose the killer could have laid her down gently on the blue duvet to molest her. It had no reported stains from JBs urine so she probably wasn't on it when she died or when she got walloped in the head.

So then what? The killer neatly refolds the duvet and sham and places them back inside the suitcase as if he has done this part before many times before.

Dark blue fuzz balls left from wiping JonBenét are unsourced.

Brown fibers remain unsourced.

Several fibers on the tape are unsourced which caused LE to ask Patsy if she owned a pair of gardening gloves in lavender and pink.

However, the red fibers of Patsy's show up in key locations at the CS.

* Sadly, one is found in the knot at her child's neck.
* And one landed on the white blanket.
* And a bothersome red fiber was also in the paint tote. How ironic.
* And those on the duct tape, too.

Fibers from JRs black Israeli shirt are found on the inside of her gigantic underwear.

O/T I would still like to know if those cigarette butts found were Patsy's.

OMO

 

[Anti-K]

They cannot both be right.

It seems that a lot of stretching is required to fit the sham/duvet fibers into the matter.

If you used the sham/duvet than why not just wrap her in that instead of the blanket she was found in. If you’re using the blanket she was found in than why use the sham/duvet. And, out of the suitcase then back into the suitcase? Huh? Why? None of it adds up and it doesn’t matter which side of the Who Did It you’re on. So, I tend to think that the FBI report is more likely to be true. , and I wouldn’t be too surprised to learn that these fibers are the
.

I believe the evidence in support of Mr Ramsey’s shirt fibers being found in the victim’s genital area or be spurious, indeed.
...

AK

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

If you used the sham/duvet then why not just wrap her in that instead of the blanket she was found in?

AK

Because the blanket was white.

 

[Anti-K]

Sure; why not? But, the point is that the blanket was used, so the sham/duvet likely was not, meaning that the FBI report is probably true and the fibers in question did not come from the sham/duvet.
...

AK

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Sure; why not? But, the point is that the blanket was used, so the sham/duvet likely was not, meaning that the FBI report is probably true and the fibers in question did not come from the sham/duvet.
...

AK

That is not logical; "the blanket was used, so the sham/duvet likely was not,"

They both could have been used at some point for some purpose. Fibers could have come from the duvet. The CBI report could have been true.

Add to that other "coincidences". The shirt was white, the longjohns were white, the panties were white and the cord was white.
From An Illustrated Encyclopaedia Of Tradtional Symbols;

White represents transcendent perfection;purity; innocence; chastity; holiness; sacredness; redemption. White is associated with both life and love, death and burial. Christian; The purified soul; joy; purity; virginity; innocence; the holy life; light; integrity. White is worn at all sacraments; baptism, confirmation, first communion, marriage, death. It is the color of Easter, Christmas, Epiphany and Ascension.

If the duvet was used at some point then that might indicate a CHOICE was made to use the blanket for the wrapping and that reason might be it's color was prefered for symbolic reasons.

 

[Anti-K]

Well, let’s think it through: Jonbenet and the blanket start out on the second floor – the blanket on the bed or in the dryer. So, it should be safe to assume that Jonbenet and the blanket were brought down to the basement together; right? If you already have the blanket why go to the suitcase and get the sham/duvet?

Also, consider that Jonbenet/blanket and sham/duvet are at opposite ends of the basement. Of course, that could have happened anyway, but why? Doesn’t seem logical.
...

AK

 

[DeDee]

We cannot assume JonBenét nor her white blanket "started out" on the second floor.

Even though her mother stated she pulled longjohns onto JB because her daughter was asleep; the child also ate pineapple that her mother denied giving to her. Ah! But her mother's fingerprint is on the bowl of pineapple with milk on the main floor.

The housekeeper stated when she left on the evening of the 23rd, the sheets on JBs bed were clean and the white blanket was on the bed. When seeing the CS photo of JBs bed, LHP told LE the sheets had been changed since she was there on the 23rd because the sheets on her bed were not the sheets she placed on the bed on the 23rd.

LHP also told LE the second floor stackable washer and dryer were too small to use for washing/drying the white blanket. It had to be laundered in the larger size appliances in the basement.

We do not know if the blanket came from the bed since her sheets were changed maybe her blanket needed to be washed, also. If true, perhaps the white blanket was inside the dryer in the basement at TOD.


According to John, there would be no need to go upstairs for the suitcase, for the blue Samsonite was placed, in the basement, days before the murder, by John, when cleaning for a Ramsey holiday party.


The windowless cement room where JB's body was placed was next door to the room with the suitcase; hence, the duvet and sham are under the window in the room next to the WC. Do you need a link?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

We cannot assume JonBenét nor her white blanket "started out" on the second floor.

She can.

 

[DeDee]

Fine, BB. Explain the dining upon the happiness of pineapple and cream, if you will. Did JB fall asleep and was woken for a bite of happiness? Was she scooped from her bed with her blanket and taken to the basement only after stopping for happiness in the kitchen first? How can we know the death of JB began on the second floor?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Fine, BB. Explain the dining upon the happiness of pineapple and cream, if you will. Did JB fall asleep and was woken for a bite of happiness? Was she scooped from her bed with her blanket and taken to the basement only after stopping for happiness in the kitchen first? How can we know the death of JB began on the second floor?

I didn't say it started on the 2nd floor. I said SHE can assume that, meaning Anti-K/mamma2jml/ScarletScarpetta.

 

[DeDee]

I didn't say it started on the 2nd floor. I said SHE can assume that, meaning Anti-K/mamma2jml/ScarletScarpetta.

My apologies. You certainly did write "She" and who knows why my brain read it as "He"? At first, I wondered why did Blue Bottle just call Anti-K a "He"? Speed reading is a habit that oft times finds me in trouble.

Now that is out of the way...what is your opinion of how JB got into the basement?

In my theory, Patsy gave a great deal of thought, to the point of being obsessed, with senses heightened, to this fantasy.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

I edited he to she.

Following the evidence, there was garland in her hair maybe from the decoration on the stairs. There were fibers from the cord on her bed. I think she was in bed and Patsy went to get her. The pineapple/happiness snack was either before she went to bed or after Patsy went to get her. Patsy either carried her or got her to walk downstairs. The original strangulation happened in the bedroom or downstairs.

I don't have enough info to see a clear timeline or sequence of events. I don't think Patsy had all those details worked out, just general ideas and worked out the details at the moment.

Fibers from the cord are most interesting, suggesting the ligatures were fashioned to an extent before she went upstairs or even in the bedroom. Those fibers on the bed are damning. Again, not enough info for such details.