the question phase continues: Arias on the stand for the 18th day #85

[Love Never Fails]

If the State's case is that she killed him with the knife and used the knife first, then the gun becomes irrelevant.

Now you have the only weapon that could be tied to premeditation becoming irrelevant.

You can throw out all her testimony and you still don't have murder one, unless the State fixes this problem.

You cannot prove she brought that knife even from another room to prove premeditation. Maybe she just reached out and grabbed it on the bathroom floor where it was dropped after the cutting of the rope.

Maybe this is murder two or manslaughter.

I have watched every minute of this trial. Have you? JM will bring it all home, premeditation, the changing of her hair color, the gas cans, telling B she was headed to Arizona, all of it, and she took the knife with her as well as the gun. I believe that. The jury will too. It won't matter which came first....just taking the gun proves premeditation. But that knife was taken with her. LE never found the knife used. Using your logic, you might as well say she didn'tH kill him at all since neither knife nor gun was found and the stabbing came first. But she already admitted the slaughter. And it was no self defense either! Pure slaughter. That is felony murder. Premeditation is easy.

 

[leebee52]

Wildabouttrail claims court starts today at "10:30 PT" What the heck is PT? Pacific Time? That makes no sense.

 

[josie1986]

Unless you give me the gun as the murder weapon of choice, I can make excuses for all the strange things concerning her trip, just like she did.

The State refuses to give me the gun as the murder weapon of choice. That is my only problem with this case. I hope they realize this and do somenhing about it.

IMO

The state cant give you it because the gun shot wasnt cause of death.
My opinion (according to Dr dreamys testimony, autopsy report etc) is he was already deceased or in his last seconds when this happened.

I can't see all the stars being aligned for all these coincidences (gas cans, planning to go to az, telling no one...I mean she couldn't shut up on the stand imo she has a big mouth and wouldn't keep it to herself if she was just planning to go for a regular visit) to occur.

Just want to thank you for taking my mind off stuff I have going on and challenge what I believe the series of events was etc. While we dont agree on things you are putting it out there intelligently and not attacking people for having a different opinion unlike many posts on other websites. :seeya:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Quester]

Janine Driver ...

Lie expert in court: Jury now looks confident
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/03/...-looking-confident?clusterId=1303#videoplayer

 

[katiewonders]

I want to know what minor4th thinks of the case. I'd love to hear your input on the evidence as a defense attorney. If it's not too much trouble.

It's always interesting to hear from the attorneys - I'm such a groupie, by the way - but I don't think any defense attorney has something different than what Nurmi is presenting: JA victim of domestic abuse acted in self-defense against the abuser Travis Alexander to save her life. She, like all other domestic abuse victims, was in a fugue and doesn't remember the rest of the killing and was not premeditated.

BBM is what I think Nurmi is thinking and not my opinion, so please do not be offended. :twocents:

 

[RadarLuv]

I am not gonna lie. I feel a little strange not waking up knowing I wont get to see JM v. JA into at anytime this morn. Anyone excited about anything coming up? There is still rebuttal, no? He isn't done yet....is that correct?

 

[josie1986]

It's always interesting to hear from the attorneys - I'm such a groupie, by the way - but I don't think any defense attorney has something different than what Nurmi is presenting: JA victim of domestic abuse acted in self-defense against the abuser Travis Alexander to save her life. She, like all other domestic abuse victims, was in a fugue and doesn't remember the rest of the killing and was not premeditated.

BBM is what I think Nurmi is thinking and not my opinion, so please do not be offended. :twocents:

You mean he has a brain?? :floorlaugh:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[rhondavous]

Nope. Juan Martinez has a mind like a steel trap. He only got one thing wrong in the whole trial about what jodi said during testimony. He knows full well what he has said and jodi's responses.

He has the court reporter read back the questions to be exact and show that jodi is playing games. I believe that technique is evident to most people and especially to the jury, when in context.

Yesterday he tried to get Jodi to admit she said "argument", but the court reporter couldn't verify the word, so JM admitted his mistake and said "I'll give you that" and moved on. He's energetic and tenatious, which is in such sharp contrast to slumped over, lumbering Nurmi. It keeps everyone on the edge of their seats, constantly thinking there is going to be another "gottcha moment".

 

[minazoe]

None of her story makes sense so she will say she had an incompetent defense because they allowed her to continue on this debacle with her total b-crud story.

Honestly, she will be fine in jail...just like Peterson...she will smile when the guards come to take her outside, when they bring her food, or bring her to the phone.

she will try to gain public sympathy, she will try to make money, and she will never accept that she will be executed....

she's one of those who will try to get a guard to help her escape...she will never kill herself, she doesn't know depression, so all of that suicidal stuff is just more of her
b-crud too...

she will try to dissuade her executioner too....cant you see it...????

bla bla, "that looks like my left arm, but if you turn it sideways, you can see that it's actually in a convergence with my right arm...but I just notice these things because I'm a doctor...want to see my bootyhole?"

 

[Nali87]

It's always interesting to hear from the attorneys - I'm such a groupie, by the way - but I don't think any defense attorney has something different than what Nurmi is presenting: JA victim of domestic abuse acted in self-defense against the abuser Travis Alexander to save her life. She, like all other domestic abuse victims, was in a fugue and doesn't remember the rest of the killing and was not premeditated.

BBM is what I think Nurmi is thinking and not my opinion, so please do not be offended. :twocents:

:seeya:

My post wasn't clear, so I edited. I wanted to know if he/she thinks the state has a strong case.

 

[popsicle]

Thank you. I haven't always been so strong. At the very end of my marriage I nearly committed suicide, fully believing I was unlovable, incapable of being happy, and somehow broken beyond repair. A relationships with a psychopath has the propensity to destroy you from the inside out.

But...you'd get through it too...because the only alternative is the psychopath winning. And we are sooooo not having that!

In my ex's case, he was horrendously abused as a child (and I mean Ethan Stacy kind of abused, not Jodi Arias kind) which has left his mother guilt-ridden and prone to his manipulations. So instead of seeing his abuse and calling him on it, she becomes a proxy instead, believing I somehow contributed to his problems. And now I'm the evil witch who took his children away from him - despite her frequent calls to the guardian ad litem and child psychologist - and a court, finally, agreeing he shouldn't have unrestricted access to children even his own.

I kinda know crazy, eh? :giggle:

Huggs

I hope you never stop speaking out. My message would be for the abused to seek seek seek help.

My relationship was inter-racial and once my parents found out they disowned me. I was totally isolated from everyone and when I finally left him I had just gotten out of the Marines and I knew noone where we were living except his family. I lived out of my car for awhile, cleaning up in a gas station bathroom before going to work. At the time he was trying to kill me... and he actually did say to me "if I can't have you nobody will" (they do say this!) he was involved with another woman. It is because of that woman, the court and my finally being able to move away that I think I am alive today.

Anyway, I packed all of those experiences away in a box in my head and went on with life as best I could. I had no insurance, no money, nobody. I worked on a relationship with my family and got my life back together. I have suffered from self hatred, low self-esteem, severe depression, attempted suicide twice and been treated for many years with meds and I am finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel. So many wasted years.

So my important message is to please seek treatment no matter how mild the abuse may seem, please...everyone and anyone!

 

[DebbieDaily]

I think the sex tape was a setup/ blackmail to use against Travis. You hear in the tape Jodi asking very leading questions about different sex acts and baits him to talk about them. The sex talk doesn't happen until much later in the tape. The first part of the convo is chitter chatter, which leads me to believe he had no idea this was being taped or was supposed to be a taped convo of sex talk.

I think by time she planned the staged burglary of her grandparents home in order for her to steal the gun she was in the planning stage of killing Travis. That was her method of choice.

I think she chose the shower because she would have an advantage over Travis. Having him sit, then shoot him. The mess contained in that one area then leave.

I think she waited outside Travis' house until the roommate left so that no one would know she was there.

Her plan was to kill him in the shower so she figured the best way to accomplish this was to have sex with him and pretend she wanted to take pics. Being she knew he would always take a shower after sex. She then baited him to get into the shower telling him those would be great pics. I think at the end she asked him to sit, at that point she only had a split second to shoot him because she knew once he saw the gun he would bolt. So immediately after sitting she pulls the gun from her pocket and hastily shoots him but the bullet enters his head in a way that isn't immediately fatal. As she panics to shoot him again he gets up stunned and staggering to the sink, she tries to fire again. But the gun jams. She runs to the kitchen for a knife knowing she cannot leave him alive. In the meantime Travis is over the sink spitting blood, she is now behind him stabbing him in the back and head. He turns to grab the knife and that is when his hand is cut. I think this is where he gets some of the frontal stabs. He tries to get away from her by going down the hall, stumbles and falls and it is then she goes crazy with her knife and also slashes his throat. She cuts her left hand at some point and is bleeding. Evidence of her blood and his mixed on the wall in the form of her left hand print on the wall. She drags him to the shower because he has her DNA on him.

After he is washed off in the shower she attempts a clean up... Takes his journal and what ever else and leaves.

This is my theory because she went thru the trouble of getting her grandfathers gun. So to me it feels as though that was her method of choice. She didnt anticipate that the first shot would not immediately kill him. I think her intention was a quick clean shot and then get out of there. I don't think she would get there and then choose a knife. And didnt know the gun would jam. At that point she had to get the knife to insure he would die.

 

[leebee52]

Sometimes I get the feeling that Nurmi isn't really helping JA....on purpose.

 

[Nosey Parker]

OK! Here's what happened:

The shelf that I put my foot on was approximately 12 inches from the ground ...
I stepped on the very edge of it while at the same time grabbing the higher shelf with my left as though I was reaching for something higher and to my right.... the back side of it tipped up and then landed back on its pegs only slightly (but definitely) disturbing the shoes on it.

Here's what I was totally NOT expecting to happen (because I suck at physics)... The shelf I grabbed with my hand SLID out towards me really fast and cleared the back peg platforms and fell down between the 4 pegs and the shoes landed on the shelf below it!!!

I have to wonder how many jurors went home yesterday and carried out the same experiment on their 'peg' shelving! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[katiewonders]

Wildabouttrail claims court starts today at "10:30 PT" What the heck is PT? Pacific Time? That makes no sense.

EST was 2 hours later than the time in Phoenix, AZ, but, because EST is now on daylight savings time and we have "sprung forward" 1 hour, we are now 3 hours later than the time in Phoenix, AZ. The trial used to begin 12:30 EST, now it is 1:30 EST.

It is AS IF Phoenix is on Pacific Time (3 hours behind the east coast), even though Phoenix doesn't do daylight savings time.

 

[Hopeful One]

I have to wonder how many jurors went home yesterday and carried out the same experiment on their 'peg' shelving! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Hopefully none!! That's a big no-no!!!

 

[Nali87]

I think the sex tape was a setup/ blackmail to use against Travis. You hear in the tape Jodi asking very leading questions about different sex acts and baits him to talk about them. The sex talk doesn't happen until much later in the tape. The first part of the convo is chitter chatter, which leads me to believe he had no idea this was being taped or was supposed to be a taped convo of sex talk.

I think by time she planned the staged burglary of her grandparents home in order for her to steal the gun she was in the planning stage of killing Travis. That was her method of choice.

I think she chose the shower because she would have an advantage over Travis. Having him sit, then shoot him. The mess contained in that one area then leave.

I think she waited outside Travis' house until the roommate left so that no one would know she was there.

Her plan was to kill him in the shower so she figured the best way to accomplish this was to have sex with him and pretend she wanted to take pics. Being she knew he would always take a shower after sex. She then baited him to get into the shower telling him those would be great pics. I think at the end she asked him to sit, at that point she only had a split second to shoot him because she knew once he saw the gun he would bolt. So immediately after sitting she pulls the gun from her pocket and hastily shoots him but the bullet enters his head in a way that isn't immediately fatal. As she panics to shoot him again he gets up stunned and staggering to the sink, she tries to fire again. But the gun jams. She runs to the kitchen for a knife knowing she cannot leave him alive. In the meantime Travis is over the sink spitting blood, she is now behind him stabbing him in the back and head. He turns to grab the knife and that is when his hand is cut. I think this is where he gets some of the frontal stabs. He tries to get away from her by going down the hall, stumbles and falls and it is then she goes crazy with her knife and also slashes his throat. She cuts her left hand at some point and is bleeding. Evidence of her blood and his mixed on the wall in the form of her left hand print on the wall. She drags him to the shower because he has her DNA on him.

After he is washed off in the shower she attempts a clean up... Takes his journal and what ever else and leaves.

This is my theory because she went thru the trouble of getting her grandfathers gun. So to me it feels as though that was her method of choice. She didnt anticipate that the first shot would not immediately kill him. I think her intention was a quick clean shot and then get out of there. I don't think she would get there and then choose a knife. And didnt know the gun would jam. At that point she had to get the knife to insure he would die.

I agree!
And I also agree the taped phone calls and pictures were made to blackmail the "good virgin mormon Travis" in the future. I have a feeling he might've been giving signals of coming clean about his sexual activities and she somehow figured all her recorded conversations and pictures wouldn't be of use anymore. (Speculating - my opinion)

 

[NashBridges2]

Just caught up on last nights posts and decided to look for the actual autopsy photos, having not previously seen them.

:anguish: I feel absolutely sick, disgusted and I'm in complete and utter shock that ANYONE can look at those pics (especially of his back, head and slashed throat up close) and even think of considering that as self defense. Has the jury saw these actual photos? If so, I'm 100% convinced they will find her guilty.

I won't be able to eat today, that's how sick I feel.

 

[Boodles]

******COPIED from closed thread Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #79 POST 170 by MormonAtty:

MormonAtty states: Honestly, I was amazed at how he knew exactly what to do with this personality. It is something I have learned as a "therapeutic parent" and was literally delighted that he understood how he needed to handle her. Here are some examples:

1. Non-sense lying is for control. JA has no respect for anyone but herself. She is smarter than anyone. To keep control, she lies even when it does not benefit her. Not only that, but it is a "test" to see if those interacting with her are smart enough to catch it. If they don't catch her, she sees them as worthless and stupid. If they do catch her and hold her accountable, they gain her respect (even though she still feels brighter). JM showed her right at the outset that he could catch her on EVERY SINGLE lie and that he could prove it. He gained her respect - that's why she looked like she enjoyed it. She finally met a worthy opponent, not just another person who feel for her stuff. Without talking bad about Nurmi, he has obviously fallen for her stuff and has not taken her to task. She does not respect him. If you notice, she tests him all the time by controlling their direct and he lets her do it. Even when he tries to give her answers, she won't always take them. Control, even when it doesn't help her. Nurmi has failed her test. Honestly, I believe she has felt "safer" with JM because he earned her respect, as opposed to Nurmi who has not earned her respect and does not have leadership with her. It literally must be scary for someone like her to be in Nurmi's hands when he has failed her tests. (And, just to clarify, as her own attorney, he did not catch the gas can stuff, he failed to see the margins of the magazines - she has gotten the best of him many times on things he could have helped her on but she didn't trust him).

2. Authority. Once JM establishes control - which is essential - he must keep it. Notice that he constantly says to her, "Mam, did I ask you if you....." when she adds to questions. He is jerking the choke chain, letting her know he is still in control and she is out of line. She bulks back at him a few times, but eventually she does submit.

3. Follow through. JM also taught her from the outset that he will never bluff. Lots of attorneys bluff or hint at evidence that may or may not come in. But, every single time she has lied and he has caught her, he has followed it through ALL THE WAY until the bitter end. In every case, she has not gotten out of it without having to face that she was caught.

snipped for space

The defendant is exhausting. Lying for the sake of control, to send JM in circles. "Hyper-literal" in her listening and responses. Splitting the tiniest, finest hair into 50 pieces. Correcting, "grading" the prosecutor ("that is correct") as though she's the judge. Contradicting and shifting to obfuscate and cause confusion, trying to match JM in his "jumping around" (non-linear) tactics, smirking, almost laughing, being haughty, but only to JM.

It's personal. And the point she has made most clearly is, if she has it in for you, you will suffer consequences and her wrath. The way she tried to debase JM is a mild, non-violent version of what she did do to Travis. I hope the jurors see the vengeance this defendant is capable of.

I'm so happy that she's off the stand. She belongs over in the corner and silent, for now, until they lock her up for good.

 

[leebee52]

EST was 2 hours later than the time in Phoenix, AZ, but, because EST is now on daylight savings time and we have "sprung forward" 1 hour, we are now 3 hours later than the time in Phoenix, AZ. The trial used to begin 12:30 EST, now it is 1:30 EST.

It is AS IF Phoenix is on Pacific Time (3 hours behind the east coast), even though Phoenix doesn't do daylight savings time.

Thanks for that FYI, How weird.