The Rest of the Story...

[Glow]

Yes I agree with you. The under aged marriage is the big thing and they have stated that will change. So we will see. The polygamy would be an issue for me if they as a religion expected me as a tax payer to support the children created by "single' moms. It is well known now that the YFZ had NO welfare moms and took no government support from the state of Texas.

 

[Glow]

CPS actions damaged children

The arrogant statements of workers who conducted the raid, claiming that only they speak for the children, indicate they've learned nothing from the harm they've inflicted. They may not stop until they've destroyed these children in order to save them.


One need only read the accounts of the only neutral eyewitnesses during the children's first days in captivity, mental health professionals sent in by the state, to understand the harm.

The observations are supported by research. A major national study of foster care "alumni" found they had twice the level of post-traumatic stress disorder of Gulf War veterans and only 20 percent could be said to be doing well.

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jun/23/cps-actions-damaged-children/

 

[SewingDeb]

Yes, we will see if that changes because CPS will stay on this case.

Since the welfare moms in the other FLDS communities put their money in one big pool, there probably was no big need for the El Dorado parents to ask for state financial help. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the El Dorado parents were still getting welfare from the states they came from.

 

[SewingDeb]

Being taken from the only home they know would be traumatic for any child. That's not surprising at all. In this case, they allowed mothers to accompany their children which is totally unheard of when CPS removes children from their homes. I think that was one good thing they did in Texas if they saw the need to remove the children.

 

[Glow]

At the various blogs and websites I am sifting through I find some quotes and snippets of thought that I have never seen before. Such as -


John Adams, defending the British soldiers accused of murder in the Boston Massacre, told the jury, "Facts are stubborn things and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictums of our passions, they cannot alter the state of the facts and evidence."





Six years before the American Revolution, William Pitt proclaimed in Parliament, "Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it." As a subject of King George, how well he knew.




"As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."
-Adolph Hitler



“Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal”
– Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[Glow]

Being taken from the only home they know would be traumatic for any child. That's not surprising at all. In this case, they allowed mothers to accompany their children which is totally unheard of when CPS removes children from their homes. I think that was one good thing they did in Texas if they saw the need to remove the children.

I understand what you are saying SewingDeb. The more I read about CPS the more I see that they are in as much need of change (or more) that the FLDS are!

To me the part above that I bolded reads like this, (in my head)

"while committing a highly unconstitutional act against American citizens, CPS allowed the mothers to be taken hostage as well."

but enough of me editing!

here is a link that says it better -

"...one-third of the children were abused in foster care - other studies show similar results. The record of institutions is worse, and most of the ranch children were institutionalized. The hideous record of Texas institutions, in particular, was documented in two scathing reports from former State Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn. Indeed, had the leaders of the YFZ Ranch really wanted to abuse children with impunity, they should have labeled their compound a residential treatment center, which would guarantee that CPS would turn a blind eye to anything happening there. All this means that had this dragged on long enough, at least 100 children who never were abused on the YFZ Ranch probably would have been abused in Texas foster care.

Another study of 15,000 children found that children placed in foster care consistently fared worse than comparably maltreated children left in their own homes. Foster children were more likely arrested as juveniles, more likely to be unemployed, and more likely to become pregnant as teenagers.

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/jun/23/cps-actions-damaged-children/

 

[SewingDeb]

I do agree that CPS needs investigating...all over this country, not just in Texas.

 

[Glow]

Yes. I live in one of the states where they are notoriously out of control.

And no - I've never had any dealings with them personally! LOL :crazy:

 

[SewingDeb]

Me neither and hope I never do!

 

[Glow]

This sounds cautiously optomistic.



FLDS to join coalition?

For several years now, representatives of the major polygamous groups in Utah and Arizona have met annually, and more regularly in recent months because of current events, as the Principle Voices Coalition.

The coalition has representatives from the Davis County Cooperative Society (Kingstons), the Apostolic United Brethren, The Work of Jesus Christ (Centennial Park), the Nielsen/Naylor group, and independent Fundamentalist Mormons. The communities have been able to come together despite their competing claims to authority and differing practices.

Two groups have not participated in the coalition in the past: the FLDS and the True and Living Church of Saints of the Latter Days (based in Manti, Utah).

But last week, FLDS spokesman Willie Jessop met with several members of the coalition in Salt Lake City, signaling what appears to be a change in course.

The coalition has organized press conferences, public rallies and serves as a primary conduit for media information. It also works with the Utah Safety Net in providing outreach to polygamous communities, helping to educate them about state laws, abuse issues and working with the media, all of which the FLDS could use some help with right now.

Mary Batchelor, the co-founder of Principle Voices, told me the first meeting went well. Jessop said the same thing. Heidi Mattingly Foster, of the Kingstons, also was there.

But I would expect the effort to bring the FLDS into the fold to move slowly for a couple reasons.

There is a deep rift between the FLDS and the Centennial Park group, whose members parted ways with the FLDS back in the mid-1980s largely over leadership issues.

Will each side be willing to come to the table now, despite their different philosophies?

And the AUB has been more outspoken than other polygamous groups in trying to distinguish itself from the FLDS.

No one from Centennial Park or the AUB was at the initial meeting. So we'll see.

Meanwhile, Mary Batchelor and Heidi Foster have been invited by Jessop to come to Texas this week to tour the ranch and meet members of the community.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/

 

[Glow]

Head of agency that removed children from sect retiring :clap:

The head of the state agency that removed more than 400 children from a West Texas polygamist sect is retiring.

Carey Cockerell, commissioner of the Department of Family and Protective Services, will leave his post on Aug. 31. He joined the agency in January 2005

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5860069.html

 

[Ciara]

Even if they do stop the underage marriages ...these girls are still going to have no choice in who they marry when they marry them, the men will still be old enough to be their fathers and they will still be too young morally to be married.

 

[SewingDeb]

I'm afraid you're right Clara.

 

[Glow]

No indictments were issued yesterday by the

Grand Jury.

A few weeks ago Walthers swore in another Grand Jury. She entered the Courthouse to swear in the GJ at about 12:30 in the afternoon and left in an hour:

By the end of the day, 18 indictments had been issued, although no details were immediately available. The number was more than the usual; typically, five to 15 indictments are returned, a court clerk said.

If you go to the link, that story indicates some of them 'may' have been related to the FLDS, but it turned out none of them were. So at the beginning of the month a GJ which didn't even convene until after lunch issued 18 indictments by the end of the day, and the GJ which met yesterday and heard testimony all day long hasn't been so hasty.
Thats good, they need to slow down and get accurate information.

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9456349

 

[SewingDeb]

Many times it is months before the grand jury hears all the evidence and brings an indictment.

 

[Glow]

Texas Harming FLDS Children, Utah Group Says

Texas authorities' attempts to save children from being abused at the YFZ Ranch are doing much more harm than good for the 437 children they removed from the FLDS Church property, a Utah child welfare advocacy group said Monday.

A byproduct of actions by child protective services in Texas is exposing children to a special kind of trauma, fear and mistrust that they are likely to have not known were it not for the raid at the compound, said Bonnie L. Peters, executive director of The Family Support Center.

While well-meaning, removing the children and keeping them sequestered "is not in the best interest of the children and will have devastating effects on their mental health," she said, starting with the heavily armed Texas law enforcement officers who arrived at the ranch of the Fundamentalist LDS Church in SWAT gear. "The children, no doubt, suffered extreme psychological abuse at the hands of the people who were seeing themselves as rescuers."

"I hope CPS is simply clueless about child development and the enormous trauma they are inflicting needlessly on these children by keeping them away from their mothers," he said, "because any other explanation would be even worse."

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695272632,00.html

 

[Glow]

Texas CPS flash: Malonis refused to testify to grand jury!
by Kurt Schulzke


The court-appointed lawyer for a 16-year-old member of the Fundamentalist LDS Church refused to testify before a grand jury investigating crimes within the polygamous sect.

“I asserted my attorney-client privilege,” Natalie Malonis told the Deseret News on Thursday.

Whoa! Malonis: “I asserted my attorney-client privilege”?? The privilege belongs to the client, not the attorney. Who does Malonis think she is? The attorney or the client? Is this a Des News typo? Or is this really what Malonis said?


http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700238199,00.html

 

[Glow]

Attitudes about polygamy and the raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch have shifted, a new poll shows.

The Deseret News/KSL-TV poll now finds that half of Utahns disagree with the decision by Texas authorities to take all of the children from the polygamous sect's property near Eldorado.

According to the poll conducted by Dan Jones & Associates, 33 percent strongly disagree with the decision to take the children and put them in state custody, and 17 percent somewhat disagree. On the other side, 22 percent strongly agree with Texas authorities, while 20 percent somewhat agree. Eight percent answered they did not know.

When a similar poll was conducted just days after the April 3 raid on the YFZ Ranch, a majority of Utahns felt authorities were justified in removing the children.

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/index.php?index=0&parentid=9

 

[Glow]

A Texan on why Texans should be proud of Texas.

Texas lawyers stepped up for FLDS childrenClaude Ducloux, LOCAL CONTRIBUTOR
Wednesday, June 11, 2008

Every now and then, an important news story reminds us how easy it is to slip back to the mentality of Salem and the politics of guilt by association. When this happens, we should note how well the legal profession responds to the call.

The mothers at the FLDS ranch were "easy pickins." They dressed funny, and their hairstyles brought giggles on the "Today" show. But their stunned looks of grief at the loss of their children touched a raw nerve inside every loving parent. And in the days that followed, more and more people were troubled by the continuing news reports that contained ... nothing new. But the gossip was lurid, a situation ripe for hysteria. But, thankfully, calm prevailed, primarily because of the lawyers and judges who refused to accept disaster as a given.

As a society, we make laws to serve and protect our citizens. At our best, we reflect man's highest moral aspirations: equal protection, individual rights and personal security. The framers decided centuries ago that we would not regulate society in a way that infringes on people's religious beliefs. But how do you balance a religious belief which conflicts with our duty to protect the young and vulnerable?

In Schleicher County, authorities had long worried about the possibility of sexual abuse of minor female children, under the guise of a religion that countenances polygamy and spiritual marriage. Finally, when an anonymous (and unconfirmed) report arrived from an alleged 16-year-old describing sexual and emotional abuse, Child Protective Services moved in and removed more than 450 minor children from their parents to "protect" them.

Many were stunned when hundreds of lawyers, including some from far-off cities, left their practices without hope of compensation, and came to the aid of these children, working for free and paying their own expenses to assist in a legal nightmare.

Texans should be proud of the incredible response by the legal profession to protect those children and preserve the rule of law. In a situation that portended disaster from the outset, hundreds of attorneys have worked selflessly, diligently and effectively. These attorneys did not know the women or the children involved, but they came to their aid at an important moment in our history, a time when the rule of law is being battered by changing politics.

Certainly, there are many chapters left in this story. But in a time when polemic debates disfavor the poor and unrepresented, the response by Texas attorneys embodies the nobility of this great American profession.

Ducloux, a lawyer, is past president of Austin Bar Association and past chairman of the Texas Bar Foundation.

http://www.statesman.com/search/content/editorial/stories/06/11/0612ducloux_edit.html

 

[Glow]

Constitutionality of Texas Change in Marriage Age – Prior to the FLDS establishing YFZ the State of Texas issued over 800 legal marriage licenses per year for girls under the age of 16 to marry and often to men twice their age.



http://crustylogic.blogspot.com/