The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[Brini]

The story on JB has been that when Casey was arrested initially she got his name from another inmate. We don't know if this is true or not. Clearly JB is out to make a name for himself with this very high profile client. Any attorney with this opportunity would be crazy not to take it. This is a career making case, if he can get her off. And I agree, his strategy for Casey may not be 100% in her best interest. But without knowing her story and details of what has been said between them and what her entire legal team has discussed, it is impossible to judge the situation.

Well, you gotta admit, JB has made a name for himself. He has prolly also permanently affected his career. ;-)

 

[Brini]

On the day Caylee's remains were found, a young man who lives in the neighborhood says that early last summer (June/July) there WAS an odor, and police were called. Someone found a dead animal off the street into the foliage and it was decided that this was the source of the odor. The odor lingered and then dissipated, and then the rain came. Anyone who mentioned the odor dismissed it once they learned a dead animal had been found off the street.

The defense is going to try to claim that someone placed Caylee's remains there after Casey was in jail. I suspect the young man and other neighbors who smelled the odor will be witnesses at the trial, along with the forensic etomologists, to dispute that claim.

The tow yard manager has already attested to the smell, when the car was towed, before KC was arrested.

 

[Brini]

Sorry, don't find where the FBI tells GA that they have photo's of KC's that are i think you said, worse than . Perhaps they were actually commenting on KC's lack of artistic talent in her photographs?

I've never seen that statement in any of the released LE records.

And, all of the photos we've seen are more silly than sexy. Groping another girl during the Hot Body contest... peeing on the garage floor.

 

[MissJames]

Has there ever been a thread on the A's alcohol and drug use? I mean, all of them? It seems to me that no dysfunctional family is not without addiction. Yet so far, I have never really seen this discussed....I think it must be a major factor in this case.
What we seem to know:
Casey: drinks and smokes pot (what else?) cigarettes?
George: definitely drinks... what else?
Cindy: on prescription pills (probably drinks?)
Lee: probably all of the above? given his age...and family history...

This has to be a factor, imo...usually is in most crimes....why has this not been dissected? Could provide many answers.

Definitely gum chewing.....
well ,as a possible replacement for an addiction to something else,anyway

 

[MissJames]

I've never seen that statement in any of the released LE records.

And, all of the photos we've seen are more silly than sexy. Groping another girl during the Hot Body contest... peeing on the garage floor.

I remember it.I think it was an FBI interview.They were warning GA that the pics were out there and the media might catch on and publish them.It was definitely about more raunchy types of photos than the ones we've seen.

 

[RR0004]

Oh I remember viewing it but when ??? Both LE and the FBI were interviewing GA. We need Cliff notes to follow this now in the timeline folder.

Found it: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75396&highlight=nude+photos

scroll down to find posts regarding this interview w/GA. Also there are links to the videos within this thread. hth

You're right. Not sure if he used the word "", though, but he/they alluded to the pics being bad enough a father wouldn't want to look at them. That may be relative...wonder if we've already seen them.

 

[Balthazar]

The client is advised, not constrained or restrained, by the attorney. She does not have to continue to retain the attorney, not is she bound by his advisement.

If she wanted to talk to LE, she is free to do so, with or without counsel.

However, in MOST cases, it's in the best interest of the client not to talk to anyone w/o counsel present.

Th two, or so, times KC spoke to LE, w/o counsel, she lied and took them on wild goose chases to false addresses and her non-existant office.

That does not smack of a wish to cooperate with LE.

Remember that we are trying to figure out what the SODDI defense might be. I theorize the defense will say that Casey has been emotionally abused so much that she followed the "script" given to her by the person stalking her when talking with the police. She couldn't answer questions and made no sense because she didn't write the script. She has not talked with police since being arrested on July 16 and it seems that her lawyer has convinced her not to talk to police further even though she has indicated a desire to do so. Baez probably has convinced her to not talk because if she does tell police the truth they will then charge her with obstruction of justice or other additional charges. I think that Casey is doing what Baez tells her to do because she believes he is working in her best interest. I think this all has to do with her SODDI defense. Not talking to LE on the advice of your attorney cannot be viewed as being uncooperative with LE. It is viewed as excercising your fifth amendment right under our laws and Bill of Rights.

 

[Balthazar]

. Oh Princess... yours is a unique prospective. KC has had the opportunity to talk to police from day one, her father begged her to talk to them, but instead she made up a cockenbull story about "Powerful forces," and the police couldn't be trusted... In stead of being honest and trying to help them recover her daughter, she chose to do nothing but lie, she lied about her job, lied about her daughter, lied about the nanny. The only person who can keep up with her lies is her mother CA, these two are the biggest, but worst liars I have ever seen in all my years

Again, I want to point out that I am explaining Casey's possible SODDI defense strategy. The thing about this case is that just because Casey never talked to the police again after she was arrested and had hired Baez as her attorney cannot under our US justice system be viewed as incriminating. It's her fifth amendment right. It's frustrating that she hasn't talked, but she does have the right not to and it cannot be used against her.

 

[Brini]

I remember it.I think it was an FBI interview.They were warning GA that the pics were out there and the media might catch on and publish them.It was definitely about more raunchy types of photos than the ones we've seen.

Interesting! Thanks! So, two posters are aware of them.

 

[Brini]

Remember that we are trying to figure out what the SODDI defense might be. I theorize the defense will say that Casey has been emotionally abused so much that she followed the "script" given to her by the person stalking her when talking with the police. She couldn't answer questions and made no sense because she didn't write the script. She has not talked with police since being arrested on July 16 and it seems that her lawyer has convinced her not to talk to police further even though she has indicated a desire to do so. Baez probably has convinced her to not talk because if she does tell police the truth they will then charge her with obstruction of justice or other additional charges. I think that Casey is doing what Baez tells her to do because she believes he is working in her best interest. I think this all has to do with her SODDI defense. Not talking to LE on the advice of your attorney cannot be viewed as being uncooperative with LE. It is viewed as excercising your fifth amendment right under our laws and Bill of Rights.

Well, I sure wouldn't make sense, if I was speaking from a script.

But, who is the stalker, why didn't anyone else notice a stalker (KC was pretty much always around peeps.) And, where is evidence of a stalker that JB could use in court?

 

[Brini]

Again, I want to point out that I am explaining Casey's possible SODDI defense strategy. The thing about this case is that just because Casey never talked to the police again after she was arrested and had hired Baez as her attorney cannot under our US justice system be viewed as incriminating. It's her fifth amendment right. It's frustrating that she hasn't talked, but she does have the right not to and it cannot be used against her.

Yes, you right. She does not have to talk.

 

[Brini]

YES you are now traveling in the twilight zone...
international, political and soon animal planet will merge here too. :blowkiss:
Oh wait a minute it all started out with people acting like animals.

but, Fantasy is not a bad thing

Not a bad thing, at all!

But, it can't be successfully used as a defense w/o evidence. Otherwise, the level of doubt does not reach "reasonable."

 

[akashana]

Except this: Casey was arrested on July 16 and from that point forward had an attorney who has told her NOT to talk to police or anyone about her case. We have seen Casey, on the day she was arrested for murder tell the police that she has wanted to talk with them for so long but with her attorney present. The police called Baez who came down to the station. Baez took Casey into another room and a few minutes later told police they would not be talking to them that day. So clearly, Casey is being restrained from talking to police by her attorney. Why this is, we don't know. But that is not an indication of guilt or innocence.

You are very correct that she is following advice of counsel to remain silent (and how she must wish Cindy would also), but back in July she was also adamant that they were searching for a live Caylee. I'm a mother, and I can tell you without reservation that if my not-yet-three-year-old daughter went missing for even a few hours, let alone a whole month, my life would immediately become an open book. No drug I may have done, or sex partner I may have had, or friend or casual acquaintance would have been suppressed. If I thought that I had a single iota of information that would lead to her safe recovery, I would open my life up 100%. If I were selling drugs, they'd have my sources; if I were stealing or a part of some theft ring, I would name names and care not one whit if I faced other charges if it meant that my child could be found alive. No attorney on earth could muzzle me if I thought that I had information to lead to her kidnappers. I think all decent mothers would do the same. Yet we didn't see this kind of disclosure with KC, and I truly believe it was because she was fully aware that Caylee had been beyond help for a very long time. She went into CYA mode and confided in JB who, much as we don't like it, gave her very good advice: say nothing. To me, that's what speaks volumes.

 

[Balthazar]

Evidence of, to begin with, stalking? Identity of the guy?

Multiple flat tires within a month - one one night and two another night after she left a nightclub.

Casey told one of her friends that she thought someone was tampering with her car.

The gas gauge possibly not working - it needs to be tested to see if this is true or not. Stalkers have been known to siphon gas from their victim's cars in order to put them in a situation where they need to be rescued or to control their movements.

The big emotional incident at the "Anything but Clothes" party in May where Casey disappeared for an hour and had been crying - she told others that she had a miscarriage with a guy at the party - but she lies so much, why would we believe she told the truth about the cause of her being so terribly upset that night? What if she was threatened by someone there?

Casey desperately gloming onto any male - moving in with TL - could she have been hiding from someone? She seemed to be splitting off with her original core group of friends and moving into a new circle - her old circle didn't even know where Casey was living.

Being nervous about her or Annie sitting near the window in the house when Annie visited her.

The defense can also use the fact that Casey didn't flee when she had multiple opportunities to do so as an indication that she really was trying to get Caylee back from someone.

See, the thing is, the evidence CAN be spun in multiple directions, not just the direction that the Prosecution has taken it.

As to the identity of the guy - it could be anyone - the defense is not required to identify him or prove that he did anything. The job of the defense is to force the prosecution to prove their case. Honestly, with the stuff that has been released so far, I'm not convinced they have enough to win a conviction. I hope they have more and stronger evidence. Hopefully they do. But we won't know until the trial.

 

[Brini]

I said long ago that Caylee started to tell Cindy things.
I do think that Caylee started to talk and that was an issue for Casey...I am afraid Caylee told Cindy something that freaked Casey out.

Coulda been. She could be mentioning sleeping in the car, or staying with Uncle TonE. Or, Mommy threw up in the toilet, or peed in the parking garage.

 

[countzero]

Again, I want to point out that I am explaining Casey's possible SODDI defense strategy. The thing about this case is that just because Casey never talked to the police again after she was arrested and had hired Baez as her attorney cannot under our US justice system be viewed as incriminating. It's her fifth amendment right. It's frustrating that she hasn't talked, but she does have the right not to and it cannot be used against her.

I don't think anyone here will argue with this; a defendant is entitled to keep quiet after retaining legal representation. I certainly don't view anyone taking the fifth amendment as being proof of incrimination.

What I have difficulty with is her talking pre-legal representation, where everything she told LE turned out to be false. All forensic evidence to this date has provided evidence that cannot be simply wished away as CA/GA and JB would have us believe.

Add to this that JB stated to the media outlets more times than I wanted to hear that his client was innocent of all charges, yet he continues to allow his client to remain locked up. He has filed inadequate brief after brief crying foul on the SA. He has allegedly caused Judge Strickland and others to file grievances with the Fla Bar against him.

Either he is full of it or he is doing a grave injustice to his client by not disclosing to SA the evidence that proves his clients innocence. Even if he produces solid verifiable evidence that SODDI, KC is in protective custody and the A's, should they also need physical protect, the state would provide it immediately in order to prosecute the nefarious individual(s).

I don't believe any type of evidence exists that will prove SODDI. Although I am open to seeing and believing LE if it does exist.

 

[Balthazar]

Sorry, don't find where the FBI tells GA that they have photo's of KC's that are i think you said, worse than . Perhaps they were actually commenting on KC's lack of artistic talent in her photographs?

This is just from memory, but as I recall, the conversation goes something like this:

The FBI agent tells George that there are over 1200 indiscreet photos of Casey on the computer that are "very bad. "

George says something like "I know she has done a lot of bad things, but I didn't know she did those bad things."

The agent then says something to the effect that since those photos are on the computer hard disk, most likely other people have them and they will surface somewhere on the internet and the FBI couldn't do anything to stop it.

George says something to the effect of "This will kill my wife."

 

[Balthazar]

You are very correct that she is following advice of counsel to remain silent (and how she must wish Cindy would also), but back in July she was also adamant that they were searching for a live Caylee. I'm a mother, and I can tell you without reservation that if my not-yet-three-year-old daughter went missing for even a few hours, let alone a whole month, my life would immediately become an open book. No drug I may have done, or sex partner I may have had, or friend or casual acquaintance would have been suppressed. If I thought that I had a single iota of information that would lead to her safe recovery, I would open my life up 100%. If I were selling drugs, they'd have my sources; if I were stealing or a part of some theft ring, I would name names and care not one whit if I faced other charges if it meant that my child could be found alive. No attorney on earth could muzzle me if I thought that I had information to lead to her kidnappers. I think all decent mothers would do the same. Yet we didn't see this kind of disclosure with KC, and I truly believe it was because she was fully aware that Caylee had been beyond help for a very long time. She went into CYA mode and confided in JB who, much as we don't like it, gave her very good advice: say nothing. To me, that's what speaks volumes.

I think you are looking at the situation as a normal functioning adult. Even the FBI agent told George that they could see there was a big difference between Casey before age 20 and after age 20. I'm sure the defense will bring this up in explaining her behavior.

I don't think Casey has confided in JB that she is guilty - defense attorney's don't want to know if their client is guilty.

 

[RR0004]

You are very correct that she is following advice of counsel to remain silent (and how she must wish Cindy would also), but back in July she was also adamant that they were searching for a live Caylee. I'm a mother, and I can tell you without reservation that if my not-yet-three-year-old daughter went missing for even a few hours, let alone a whole month, my life would immediately become an open book. No drug I may have done, or sex partner I may have had, or friend or casual acquaintance would have been suppressed. If I thought that I had a single iota of information that would lead to her safe recovery, I would open my life up 100%. If I were selling drugs, they'd have my sources; if I were stealing or a part of some theft ring, I would name names and care not one whit if I faced other charges if it meant that my child could be found alive. No attorney on earth could muzzle me if I thought that I had information to lead to her kidnappers. I think all decent mothers would do the same. Yet we didn't see this kind of disclosure with KC, and I truly believe it was because she was fully aware that Caylee had been beyond help for a very long time. She went into CYA mode and confided in JB who, much as we don't like it, gave her very good advice: say nothing. To me, that's what speaks volumes.

I definitely agree with you. Though Casey may buy her own bs, JB must have clearly pointed out to her others wouldn't.

 

[RR0004]

This is just from memory, but as I recall, the conversation goes something like this:

The FBI agent tells George that there are over 1200 indiscreet photos of Casey on the computer that are "very bad. "

George says something like "I know she has done a lot of bad things, but I didn't know she did those bad things."

The agent then says something to the effect that since those photos are on the computer hard disk, most likely other people have them and they will surface somewhere on the internet and the FBI couldn't do anything to stop it.

George says something to the effect of "This will kill my wife."

So I gather they have yet to be seen. Don't think the parking lot pic would qualify as being sooooo bad.