The Texts Messages: Warning! Graphic SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

[Billylee]

What was out of context? Kaine and his lawyer wanted to know where Terri got 350k that she claimed to MC it cost her to obtain Houze. Kaine and his lawyer provided the texts that pertained to that amount and that it was for her lawyer's services. The judge has yet to make a decision on whether or not Terri should be compelled to tell where she got the money from, but knowing what we now know, what else would he have needed to see in that block of texts that we saw that would help him make that decision?

JMO

If you look at the redacted texts, you cannot tell what was said before and after the comments you are referring to. If I were a judge I would request the un-redacted copy before I made a decision. But, maybe that's just me.

 

[Chablis]

Oh, thank you for reminding me! That part of those texts where she mentions feeling like she'll never get "some" again........we don't know what it was she was referring to. MC had stated something about bringing something to her. It seemed a natural response to that. And whatever it was didn't seem to have anything to do with the sexting which commenced. But that's just my interpretation, of course!

I am *pretty* sure it was all in context with the flow of conversation where she states guys are afraid to hit on her because she can bench press them, now as sexy as that is, I am pretty sure she wasn't talking about being out of nutter butters, but who knows. There is also a picture of her masturbating, I mean seriously, how much compassion is this woman supposed to get? And also, she knows when she is taking such pics, her phone is being monitored by the LE!!!!

Its wrong and disgusting and made her lawyers retreat, because there is no acceptable explanation for that kind of lewd behavior when there is a missing child. jmo

 

[PortlandMama]

BBM...

Terri and her lawyers cannot work out an arrangement with Kaine outside of the court WITHOUT filing yet ANOTHER motion with the court for modification of the RO. The idea that they withdrew their motion SO that they could work out an arrangement out of court is disingenuous...Just like the notion that they were trying to work out an arrangement out of court all this time, thus the reason they didn't file for the motion before.

Terri has a restraining order against her so she can't just go to court with a pre-arranged agreement between her and Kaine(which I doubt that he'd ever agree to anyway...after all he does consider her to be a DANGER to his daugther) as would be standard with a standard divorce dissolution. She HAS to file a motion with the court for modification and even if Kaine were to agree to a parenting plan outside of the court, the judge has the final say on whether or not to accept the plan, deny the plan, or accept parts and make his own changes. Its not as simple as working out a plan out of court* as Terri's lawyers would have the public believe.

JMO

SBM. BBM.

I don't agree that this description (that the lawyers can work out an arrangement outside of court) is disingenous. It seems like a very apt description of how the process can actually work (and how it is preferred to work), and I have just gone through it myself, right here in Multnomah County. Terri's lawyers are talking about the process of reaching an agreement (negotiation between parties versus having the judge decide), not the specific technical aspects of filing the motions necessary to make modifications to the RO once the agreement is reached.

Of course the agreement has to be filed with the court (in various pieces, no doubt) and then signed by the judge (I don't think Terri's lawyers were claiming otherwise). Again, they are describing the process of reaching an agreement between the parties via negotiations between the lawyers (and potentially a mediator). Only if the parties fail to reach an agreement would there be a hearing in which the judge would weigh arguments and make specific decisions--that's the opposite of the "out of court" process they refer to. Yes, the judge is not forced to accept any proposed judgment or individual motion, but it is highly unlikely that if both parties agree to something he will rule against it.

That said, I agree that it seems unlikely Terri and Kaine will come to an agreement on anything, so this point is probably moot.

Back on topic: I also agree with those who have said (as Terri's lawyers have) that the purpose of including the sexts was to publicly embarass Terri (with the obvious understanding that filing them with the court is equivalent to their public release). I believe that this is part of the general campaign to apply as much pressure on Terri as possible, on the assumption that she was involved in Kyron's disappearance and that such tactics may eventally lead to her talking.

 

[debs]

Its not about the sexts either, if we are going to really get technical. We are trying to euphemize the occurence by completely ignoring the events surrounding them as well as the *other* information contained in them that have nothing to do with sex. Terri wanted an EXPEDITED hearing to try and get visitation with her daughter, stating that she feels that its in the baby's best interest to see her as soon as possible...Kaine calls BS on that assertion and provides information to show what Terri thought was more important than getting her daughter back just 2 days after she was *taken*. If Kaine had said, "I feel that these sexts show that Terri is unfit to see her child because she was engaging in adult behavior", we'd be able to just talk about the adult behavior in isolation. But that is not the assertion.

JMO

Thank you for reminding me too! Mr Bunch states quite clearly that he has been working (as is allowed by law, though I know some think it is not) with Rackner to modify the FAPA to "effectuate safe, secure, and supervised parenting time between K and her mother. Petitioner has refused to consider parenting time under any circumstances."

The response to that was to assert that "...Petitioner informed me that she would engage in extensive discovery, including 'multiple depositions' and subpoenas for medical records, followed by a four day trial, all to support her client's petition for no parenting time at all is appropriate."

He then goes on further to submit that "Respondent cannot reply to the alleged factual assertions and substantive issues set forth in Petitioner's affidavit, given the police investigations and pending court ruling in favor of the abatement of these matters. As petitioner also knows, Respondent cannot obtain reciprocal discovery in this proceeding......plainly impacting Petitioner's rights under the Fifth Amendment, as well as Article 1, section 12 of the Oregon Constitution......"given that Respondent cannot obtain the information from law enforcement necessary to protect her rights in view of what should be a simple matter of determining appropriate ground rules for supervised parenting time, Respondent, with very deep and great reluctance, and with grave concern about K's short term development and long-term well-being, is compelled to move to dismiss her motion to modify the FAPA order........attorneys will continue their efforts to put in place an agreement.........K's best interests.........is not an agreement to the status quo.....wishes only to act in K's best interests..........and must wait for another day when additional facts can be obtained and presented."

So......They've been working diligently SINCE JULY, not putting it off. These texts, as we were shown them, begin after 10 p.m. at night. Definitely adult time, and definitely not child-oriented. She wasn't sitting idly by on either matter. Her attorneys state quite clearly that Terri's constitutional rights would be violated if Kaine is allowed to go forward as stated in his affidavit, which seems to me an appropriate stance for each side to take.

So again, I'll ask......in all of that, how are these text messages proof that Terri would have been unfit for even supervised parenting time which is what her attorney has been trying SINCE JULY to get through cooperation, with Kaine? It doesn't support the statement that "Kaine calls BS on that assertion and provides information to show what Terri thought was more important than getting her daughter back just 2 days after she was *taken*. ".......in fact, this motion to reluctantly withdraw her motion shows she IS thinking of her child's best interests, in that defending her constitutional rights has been forced on her for the greater goal of getting her child back at all.

These texts had nothing to do with any of that, so why were they brought forward at all? I now fully agree with her high priced, well informed, and thoroughly competent attorneys that it was only to "embarrass Respondent and further inflame public opinion against her."

 

[Chablis]

So again, I'll ask......in all of that, how are these text messages proof that Terri would have been unfit for even supervised parenting time which is what her attorney has been trying SINCE JULY to get through cooperation, with Kaine?

I am pretty sure the main issue has to do with the fact the baby could have witnessed something terrible in regards to her brother, I think along with that and cops telling Kaine she had wanted him dead was more than enough to show why she shouldn't be around anyone related to Kaine, since its obvious she hates him enough to start up something with a childhood friend of his and send him pictures of her nether regions, I really dont care what time they were sent, that makes no difference, it was to show how she was acting and the contempt and disgust she had toward her husband while he was suffering his sons loss. Lets really not act like this was a long term affair with a lover that was preexisting Kyron going missing.

jmo

 

[Trt]

If you look at the redacted texts, you cannot tell what was said before and after the comments you are referring to. If I were a judge I would request the un-redacted copy before I made a decision. But, maybe that's just me.

Once again, the judge has yet to make a decision on the motion to compel. But what else needs to be seen to compel Terri to disclose where she received 350K to pay for her lawyer that she says costs 350K...where is the missing context? I agree that you can't tell what was said before or after, but what else would be needed? The texts that were provided were(paraphrased)

MC: Hey, heard you got Houze
TH: Yep, guess how much he costs?
MC: How Much?
TH: 350 K

So what is missing in context that the judge would need to make his decision that Kaine is or isn't entitled to know where Terri got the money to pay Houze?

 

[Trt]

Thank you for reminding me too! Mr Bunch states quite clearly that he has been working (as is allowed by law, though I know some think it is not) with Rackner to modify the FAPA to "effectuate safe, secure, and supervised parenting time between K and her mother. Petitioner has refused to consider parenting time under any circumstances."

snipped by me...

Kaine and Terri(through their lawyers or otherwise) are not allowed to modify an FAPA RO without a motion from either party to the court requesting modification of the order. Any parenting plan that they work together on outside of court MUST be accepted by a judge and it must be in the course of a MODIFICATION HEARING that either party MUST motion for. The judge is NOT required to accept any out of court arrangement that the two parties may come to and may also still have questions not pertaining to the parenting plan that the two have agreed on in order to make his decision about whether a modification should occur.

So yes, they were *allowed* to do it, but without the very important step(the step that Terri and her lawyer withdrew and NEVER FILED in the 3 months that they claimed to have been working hard at trying to get parenting time) of motioning the court for a hearing and receiving a court date where the judge will decide based on testimony from both sides, whether or not a modification of the order is appropriate.

So again, the claim that they have been working hard behind the scenes is disingenuous at best.

I think my fingers are tired of typing out the reasons why Kaine provided the texts and explaining that the sexual nature has nothing to do with whether or not Terri is fit to see her child. So I'll just agree to disagree.

JMO

 

[debs]

I am pretty sure the main issue has to do with the fact the baby could have witnessed something terrible in regards to her brother, I think along with that and cops telling Kaine she had wanted him dead was more than enough to show why she shouldn't be around anyone related to Kaine, since its obvious she hates him enough to start up something with a childhood friend of his and send him pictures of her nether regions, I really dont care what time they were sent, that makes no difference, it was to show how she was acting and the contempt and disgust she had toward her husband while he was suffering his sons loss. Lets really not act like this was a long term affair with a lover that was preexisting Kyron going missing. jmo

Yeah, but these text messages aren't a part of that, are they? Not a part of K seeing something "unimaginable" toward Kyron, not for hiring someone to kill Kaine, doesn't prove hatred toward Kaine that she sent them to another man, just that Kaine had filed for divorce and she figured she was free to do whatever she wanted including bad seduction and shots of her naughty bits, Kaine doesn't refer to MC as a childhood friend, he says they weren't that close and knew one another in high school. She was acting as many other adults with children act 24/7 all over the world. These texts don't address even one part of any reason Terri should not have parenting time with her child.

 

[Emma Peel]

OK... well, consulting my "Child Missing, Failed MFH of Dear Husband Appropriate Sex Guide for Dummies"...

My opinion? She started the sexting as soon as her husband moved out. And three weeks after Kyron had been missing.

Three weeks.

And her daughter had been taken, too.

Just me... and I usually despise anecdotes, but I think I'd be sickened with a sense of loss that I'd hardly be able to eat. Sex would be the furthest thing from my mind. I would be working my off to remedy the problems.

I'm not a prude... not by a long shot. But this isn't about sex as much as it is about the sheer audaciousness of her behavior at a time when most of us would be mourning so many losses.

To me, the only thing that explains her cheerful, risque texts is that she killed Kyron and was almost giddy about it--therefore the almost manic texts.

Okay, if I may...

Let's "play" it out in a little more detail and suggest that she was drunk - 2 sheets to the wind whilst sexting. This scenario would be consistent with Kaine's affadavit - she self-medicated herself into a "sextual" stupor whilst holding the business end of her cell phone.

why do people drink themselves silly at night on a regular basis?

could it be depression? could it be pain? could it be mourning?

or can the only explanation for the sexting be giddiness over murder?

IMO, it's lurid, it's nasty, and (even worse), she flagrante derelictum-ed her own self (thanks, debs ), however ...

My guess would be that Terri has a very, very complicated psyche and these sexts are but a peek-a-boo (sorry :angel at the surface of a great deep wound with a bunch of muscles wrapped around it, upon which Terri regularly pours an alcoholic anesthetic.

So...I'm not excusing the behavior so much as continuing to paint the likely conditions under which it occurred. *hic*

 

[Chablis]

Yeah, but these text messages aren't a part of that, are they? Not a part of K seeing something "unimaginable" toward Kyron, not for hiring someone to kill Kaine, doesn't prove hatred toward Kaine that she sent them to another man, just that Kaine had filed for divorce and she figured she was free to do whatever she wanted including bad seduction and shots of her naughty bits, Kaine doesn't refer to MC as a childhood friend, he says they weren't that close and knew one another in high school. She was acting as many other adults with children act 24/7 all over the world. These texts don't address even one part of any reason Terri should not have parenting time with her child.

Well, there was a whole plethora of other stuff that showed why she should not be around her daughter, I dont think the texts are to show why she shouldnt be around her daughter, I think its going to show how warped she is, I mean, if shes so free at this point when she is sending pics of her naughty bits to a friend of her husband, because he is no matter how you want to slice and dice it, she still is showing up in court with her wedding rings on, so I cant find any respect for someone who picks and chooses when its ok for them to act married. jmo

 

[Emma Peel]

I don't think it was him that she was playing with.

:blushing:

:slap:

:floorlaugh:

:blowkiss:

 

[debs]

Well, there was a whole plethora of other stuff that showed why she should not be around her daughter, I dont think the texts are to show why she shouldnt be around her daughter, I think its going to show how warped she is, I mean, if shes so free at this point when she is sending pics of her naughty bits to a friend of her husband, because he is no matter how you want to slice and dice it, she still is showing up in court with her wedding rings on, so I cant find any respect for someone who picks and chooses when its ok for them to act married. jmo

Then why were they included??????

 

[Chablis]

Then why were they included??????

I said to show how warped and inappropriate she is, because her actions are those of someone who needs serious help, and once again, lets not act like she started this sexting affair before the child went missing. This woman hated her husband so much during a terrible time where she should be acting like she gives a frig about Kyron, she starts something with one of his friends, maybe if she was not accused of trying to have Kaine killed and wasn't the last one seen with a MISSING CHILD, these texts wouldnt mean anything, but they do and they paint a disturbed individual. I dont think anyone says these texts show she shouldnt see her child, I think everything just goes together to show how despicable her actions and where her prioritizes really were, and at that time they making toast out of Kaines friend and arm wrestling threats, and getting some. Its morally disgusting.

jmo

 

[nosysw]

I didn't say Kaine made the diagnosis...I said he was discussing a pattern of behavior, of which the sexting was part, which IMO could go to any number of psychological diagnoses, two of which I suggested...And I said that I believe the pattern of behavior that the sexting is a part of is relevant to her character which is relevant to her parenting...

I think my fingers are tired of typing out the reasons why Kaine provided the texts and explaining that the sexual nature has nothing to do with whether or not Terri is fit to see her child. So I'll just agree to disagree.

JMO

Yes, I think it is time for me to do so as well...

 

[Jo in Calif]

But this thread isn't about all those things. It's about Terri sending pictures of herself with lurid graphic notions of sexual behavior. No child was nearby. She was an adult. She had been served divorce papers signaling to her that her husband no longer bound himself to her and has taken legal action to end their marriage.

What does an adult, making an adult decision to send text messages to another adult, regardless of how long they knew one another, have to do with her fitness to visit with her child?

Adults around the world send sext messages. These same adults have children. Many of these adults are in stressful situations in their lives. This doesn't make a person bad. It makes for tawdry discussion when it becomes public. But how does it make someone so unfit to see their children?

For me, if Kaine had sent these texts to the newspaper, himself, and said, "here publish these, show everyone what an unusual person Terri is." I would be appalled at Kaine for doing that. But since these texts were filed as an exhibit, that went along with an affidavit, with explanations as to why they were included and filed with the courts. I, myself, can totally see the relevance for them, the texts, being filed as an exhibit, in Kaine's affidavit.

 

[debs]

I said to show how warped and inappropriate she is, because her actions are those of someone who needs serious help, and once again, lets not act like she started this sexting affair before the child went missing. This woman hated her husband so much during a terrible time where she should be acting like she gives a frig about Kyron, she starts something with one of his friends, maybe if she was not accused of trying to have Kaine killed and wasn't the last one seen with a MISSING CHILD, these texts wouldnt mean anything, but they do and they paint a disturbed individual. I dont think anyone says these texts show she shouldnt see her child, I think everything just goes together to show how despicable her actions and where her prioritizes really were, and at that time they making toast out of Kaines friend and arm wrestling threats, and getting some. Its morally disgusting.

jmo

I just can't make the leap that people who send dirty text messages at any time means they're warped and filled with hate. I'll agree that inappropriate weighs in, but being inappropriate isn't grounds for telling someone that she cannot have any parenting time. Even hating her soon to be ex husband isn't grounds, though it would make one pause and ask for supervised parenting time, which is precisely what her attorneys had been doing SINCE JULY (contrary to popular belief that she was uninterested all this time).

These texts do not address any of the issues for keeping K from her mother.

 

[stmarysmead]

Yes, I think it is time for me to do so as well...

Yes...count me in. Repetition becomes , as one poet put it..."speaking to see one's breath upon the air." LOL! I suspect we are now falling into that category.

So...agree to disagree.

 

[Chablis]

I just can't make the leap that people who send dirty text messages at any time means they're warped and filled with hate. I'll agree that inappropriate weighs in, but being inappropriate isn't grounds for telling someone that she cannot have any parenting time. Even hating her soon to be ex husband isn't grounds, though it would make one pause and ask for supervised parenting time, which is precisely what her attorneys had been doing SINCE JULY (contrary to popular belief that she was uninterested all this time).

These texts do not address any of the issues for keeping K from her mother.

I dont think the case that she shouldnt see her child was based just on text messages though. I think it goes to show how disgraceful and disrespectful she was to her husband when he would need her the most. She was also last seen with his child and refuses to answer questions when directly asked by him about the missing child, I just dont know how anyone can act like thats nothing and not a problem, I mean just all that and not factoring in the sexts were more than enough to prove their point, the sexts were just the icing on the cake, and Terri shared that pic knowing she was being monitored, which makes her actions more bizarre. If one wants to argue this sexting is normal between adults, thats fine, but when you are doing it knowing all these people are reading it, then sorry, I do think something is wrong with someone that eager to show her goods, I would not want a child around this kind of hypersexual exhibitionist. jmo

 

[Trt]

SBM. BBM.

I don't agree that this description (that the lawyers can work out an arrangement outside of court) is disingenous. It seems like a very apt description of how the process can actually work (and how it is preferred to work), and I have just gone through it myself, right here in Multnomah County. Terri's lawyers are talking about the process of reaching an agreement (negotiation between parties versus having the judge decide), not the specific technical aspects of filing the motions necessary to make modifications to the RO once the agreement is reached.

Of course the agreement has to be filed with the court (in various pieces, no doubt) and then signed by the judge (I don't think Terri's lawyers were claiming otherwise). Again, they are describing the process of reaching an agreement between the parties via negotiations between the lawyers (and potentially a mediator). Only if the parties fail to reach an agreement would there be a hearing in which the judge would weigh arguments and make specific decisions--that's the opposite of the "out of court" process they refer to. Yes, the judge is not forced to accept any proposed judgment or individual motion, but it is highly unlikely that if both parties agree to something he will rule against it.

That said, I agree that it seems unlikely Terri and Kaine will come to an agreement on anything, so this point is probably moot.

Back on topic: I also agree with those who have said (as Terri's lawyers have) that the purpose of including the sexts was to publicly embarass Terri (with the obvious understanding that filing them with the court is equivalent to their public release). I believe that this is part of the general campaign to apply as much pressure on Terri as possible, on the assumption that she was involved in Kyron's disappearance and that such tactics may eventally lead to her talking.

I do agree that it is probably a moot point...but I do believe its disingenuous not to file the motion(that is required) before working for 3 months to try and get an arrangement worked out out of courts. Kaine and Rackner never agreed to work out of court, so they spent 3 months *trying* to get them to work out of court?

As well, withdrawing the motion that Terri must file in order to have any modification arrangment or request heard and saying that they will instead go back to working outside of court for an agreement is also disingenuous in my opinion. The motion was already filed and if Terri and her lawyers wanted more time to work out an arrangement with Kaine(who has sworn under penalty of perjury that he DOES NOT believe that Terri should have ANY contact with her daughter) is disingenuous. The process is the process when both agree that there should be changes and are working to make them. Otherwise, the judge has to decide, which Kaine has made it clear that he wants.


"The judge may sign an order at the Petitioner’s request making terms less restrictive without requiring a hearing. The Respondent, however, may request a hearing."

http://www.courts.oregon.gov/OJD/do...010FAPAUpdate/Packet2/InstrucsMODIFY-9-10.pdf

"You have 30 days after you are served with the restraining order to ask the judge to dismiss or change any part of the order, including child custody, by filing a “Request for Hearing.” ...."

If it has been more than 30 days since the date you were served, the only type of hearing you may request is to make changes to custody and/or parenting time parts of the Restraining Order. Either party may request this type of hearing. You may request such a hearing by asking the clerk at the courthouse for the forms needed to “modify” a restraining order. The judge may schedule a hearing to decide whether or not to change the order. The judge may decide not to change the order even if both sides agree they want the same changes."

http://courts.oregon.gov/Washington/docs/familylaw/7A_Obtain_RO/FapaInstrucsCONTEST-RO.pdf

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

Yes...count me in. Repetition becomes , as one poet put it..."speaking to see one's breath upon the air." LOL! I suspect we are now falling into that category.

So...agree to disagree.

So long as no one thinks that I don't appreciate where they are coming from. Because both me and the devil in my pocket certainly do. And we have enjoyed the discussion & the respectful back & forth.

*sigh*

:heart: for Kyron. we are here for ya, buddy. regardless.