The Use of the Shovel

[ZsaZsa]

Glad the shovel borrowing evidence is going to be before the jury.

I wonder if Caylee was with KC when she asked to borrow the shovel.

Don't know if GA or CA where home and watching Caylee? I know I wouldn't leave my children at that age alone in the house for 2 seconds to borrow a shovel.

Could some of the jurors wonder the same thing? Where was Caylee at that time?

Did the A's not have a shovel in the shed?

These would be the thoughts I would have if I were on this jury. JMO

Caylee was only 'with' Casey in the sense that she was in the trunk, deceased.
GA and CA were not watching her obviously.
The Anthony shed was kept locked.

 

[Intermezzo]

Glad the shovel borrowing evidence is going to be before the jury.

I wonder if Caylee was with KC when she asked to borrow the shovel.

Don't know if GA or CA where home and watching Caylee? I know I wouldn't leave my children at that age alone in the house for 2 seconds to borrow a shovel.

Could some of the jurors wonder the same thing? Where was Caylee at that time?

Did the A's not have a shovel in the shed?

These would be the thoughts I would have if I were on this jury. JMO

A visibly alive Caylee was not seen with Casey
George and Cindy were both at work,
The A's shed was locked

 

[listening-in]

I wonder if she just went to borrow the shovel as a ruse to see if the neighbor was home because she had planned to take Caylee's body from the trunk and she did not want any witnesses. She surely wasn't digging any bamboo..not the gardening type..and she wasn't burying a body too lazy and the dogs would certainly notice.
At one time I thought that she might use the shovel to reposition the body(sorry Caylee) or double bag it since it was baking in the trunk ...and then rinsed it off in yard causing the police dogs to get the scent...eveything kc does, did is calculated ...and asking for this shovel somehow fit into her plan at this time . JMO

 

[faefrost]

I wonder if she just went to borrow the shovel as a ruse to see if the neighbor was home because she had planned to take Caylee's body from the trunk and she did not want any witnesses. She surely wasn't digging any bamboo..not the gardening type..and she wasn't burying a body too lazy and the dogs would certainly notice.
At one time I thought that she might use the shovel to reposition the body(sorry Caylee) or double bag it since it was baking in the trunk ...and then rinsed it off in yard causing the police dogs to get the scent...eveything kc does, did is calculated ...and asking for this shovel somehow fit into her plan at this time . JMO

We keep attributing these complex thoughts plans and deviousness to KC. She really isn't that bright. While she is a diabolical liar, she is incredibly lazy and self focused. She borrowed the shovel to bury a body. She abandoned that plan when she discovered that "gee, digging a hole and burying a body are hard!" So she just threw the child away like trash in the woods instead. Most direct line to what she wants with the minimal personal effort. That's all it is.

 

[Scamperoo]

We keep attributing these complex thoughts plans and deviousness to KC. She really isn't that bright. While she is a diabolical liar, she is incredibly lazy and self focused. She borrowed the shovel to bury a body. She abandoned that plan when she discovered that "gee, digging a hole and burying a body are hard!" So she just threw the child away like trash in the woods instead. Most direct line to what she wants with the minimal personal effort. That's all it is.

I have always thought Caylee was hidden not buried in the back Yard, under the playhouse, in the sand box or elsewhere. I think that Casey returned to the home to get rid of Caylee's body which was well into decomposition by this time. I think she then moved the body to the trunk of her car with the shovel as the remains were in a state where Casey didn't want to actually touch them.

At no time do I think that Casey dug any sort of hole, she removed the remains to the woods but bodily fluids had already leaked out, the heat acting on the fluids caused the nauseating stench in the trunk. I believe that she found it impossible to eradicate the smell which got progressively worse and in the end abandoned the car.

 

[strach304]

We keep attributing these complex thoughts plans and deviousness to KC. She really isn't that bright. While she is a diabolical liar, she is incredibly lazy and self focused. She borrowed the shovel to bury a body. She abandoned that plan when she discovered that "gee, digging a hole and burying a body are hard!" So she just threw the child away like trash in the woods instead. Most direct line to what she wants with the minimal personal effort. That's all it is.

I couldn't agree more. For someone as experienced as Casey lying you would think she would at least be good at it.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I have always thought Caylee was hidden not buried in the back Yard, under the playhouse, in the sand box or elsewhere. I think that Casey returned to the home to get rid of Caylee's body which was well into decomposition by this time. I think she then moved the body to the trunk of her car with the shovel as the remains were in a state where Casey didn't want to actually touch them.

At no time do I think that Casey dug any sort of hole, she removed the remains to the woods but bodily fluids had already leaked out, the heat acting on the fluids caused the nauseating stench in the trunk. I believe that she found it impossible to eradicate the smell which got progressively worse and in the end abandoned the car.

Oh, good one. I haven't heard that before, but it appeals because I thought she might have drowned her in a rage when she couldn't get a sitter. If that's what she did , hid her, then came back and forth to the house as she always did when CA/GA were working, that would explain the cadaver dog alerts. It never seemed plausible to me that she would contemplate burying her in her own yard.. What a gruesome scene. That would explain her nightmares too, if she had to remove Caylee once she was decomposing.... ugh

 

[Gma Kat]

IIRC the forensic testing on the shovel showed nothing of significance. If the shovel was used to move a decomposing Caylee I would think there would be evidence of such remaining - or evidence of a clean-up on the shovel. It makes sense to me that ICA would enjoy the ultimate FU to her parents by burying Caylee in the backyard. Weren't there searches on the computer relating to shovels??? Perhaps researching what type of shovel you use when you dig a hole in Florida soil??? Borrow shovel - check, attempt to dig hole - too difficult, time for new plan.......move Caylee's body back to car and return shovel to neighbor.....

 

[Reagan]

Even though there isn't chlorine in the A pool that we know of, I think for whatever reason, KC cleaned off the shovel in the pool. My reasoning is that when she got home on bond, CA tried to give that bs story to someone about the shovel and bamboo shoots, and KC corrected her by saying something like..."and to get the ladder out of the pool". GA allegedly walked in just shaking his head.

I believe it's in the Tracy M. interview.

I can't speculate about what she actually used the shovel for. After June 16th, the possibilities are endless and sickening to think about.

 

[joypath]

:rocker:Just a "quickie" for a Sat. night: That type of shovel is HEAVY, doesn't have a wide or flat surface like the (dare I use the word ):sick: snow :sick: shovels and Caylee (may God rest her soul!) was about 35 lbs of "dead weight" that was NOT going to be easy to maneuver with or without a fulcrum. Anything with a sharp edge might, just might, rip open one section of those bags had she bagged up Caylee OR the sharp edge, nay for that matter ANYTHING pressing against a bloated body might cause a nasty :sick::sick::sick: surprise for the uninitiated :waitasec: to the world of human decomposition!

:twocents: I :innocent: think this member of the " intelligentsia" :floorlaugh: planned to dig a :maddening: whole big hole and bury Caylee like a potted plant (no wait, that's about the span of her attention equivalency! :crazy but but discovered that honest labor generates sweat, takes time and doesn't fit into her texting schedule or her :fence: "leg swinging" for the boys!

 

[Scamperoo]

IIRC the forensic testing on the shovel showed nothing of significance. If the shovel was used to move a decomposing Caylee I would think there would be evidence of such remaining - or evidence of a clean-up on the shovel. It makes sense to me that ICA would enjoy the ultimate FU to her parents by burying Caylee in the backyard. Weren't there searches on the computer relating to shovels??? Perhaps researching what type of shovel you use when you dig a hole in Florida soil??? Borrow shovel - check, attempt to dig hole - too difficult, time for new plan.......move Caylee's body back to car and return shovel to neighbor.....

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/casey-anthony-murder-trial/timeline-and-discovery/

In this article it was explained that not only was this one allele coming in under a generally accepted range to be used in court, and could not be properly called “DNA”, but there was a potential backfire to the defense touting this as coming from a stranger. The problem was that the DNA results from Brian Burner’s shovel showed a mixture of individuals that also came in under generally accepted levels. This mixture contains alleles (more than one, by the way) of what appears to be a male and female. It contains alleles (several) that are common to Caylee’s DNA results (both from the tibia and Jesse Grund’s paternity test results) as well as what appears to be Brian Burner’s DNA – which is no surprise since it’s his darned shovel! Brian Burner has a 17 allele in the D3S1358 loci just like the shadow 17 allele on Q64-2 test result of a piece of the duct tape on Caylee’s skull. The point being that if the defense was silly enough to take less than a human cell of a generally unacceptable test result on this one allele, they would open the door to the state showing the possible connections between Caylee’s DNA, Brian Burner’s DNA, and the shovel Casey borrowed in the week of Caylee’s death (and most likely disposal).

I think this is significant.

 

[tlcya]

Personally, I think the shovel was because ICA intended to bury little Caylee in the backyard, right beneath CA's nose. I can well imagine the secret satisfaction ICA felt, thinking about that.

I also think she quickly discovered that digging a hole large enough to deposit her toddler in was harder work than Ms. ICA was accustomed to or felt like doing. Therefore, instead of Caylee being disposed of in the A backyard, as I think was originally planned, she ended up disposed of down the block at the pet cemetary recalled from childhood, not buried, but simply dumped.

That's my take on the shovel. Borrowed, but too lazy to dig a hole.

 

[Just Jayla]

Slightly O/T, but not sure where else to note it....I did not know that some species of bamboo contain cyanide in the roots and shoots. While it is totally unrelated here, I don't see how it could tied in at all, I thought of this case as soon as I heard that.

Wait, wait-Maybe it's not completely unrelated....maybe it's why CA's dogs were getting sick....but cyanide would likely make them croak, no?

 

[Snaz]

Slightly O/T, but not sure where else to note it....I did not know that some species of bamboo contain cyanide in the roots and shoots. While it is totally unrelated here, I don't see how it could tied in at all, I thought of this case as soon as I heard that.

Wait, wait-Maybe it's not completely unrelated....maybe it's why CA's dogs were getting sick....but cyanide would likely make them croak, no?

Great theory. However, in George's depo, he stated pretty emphatically the dogs had not been sick.

Even if it were true the dogs had been sick, I guess it would really depend on how much cyanide they injested as to whether or not it would kill them. I wouldn't think just a little bit a couple of times would kill the dogs. But what do I know? Not much about cyanide....

JMHO.

 

[NoNameLeft]

IMO that story about sick dogs was Cindy trying to take the blame for the chloroform searches, nothing more. A stupid lie, she didn't look up chlorophyll on the internet. If she had, she would have found that it is not harmful to dogs but it is used to clean their breath.

 

[Snaz]

IMO that story about sick dogs was Cindy trying to take the blame for the chloroform searches, nothing more. A stupid lie, she didn't look up chlorophyll on the internet. If she had, she would have found that it is not harmful to dogs but it is used to clean their breath.

I agree, NoName!! She would also have known how to SPELL it correctly if she had actually googled it!!! She definitely was lying to cover for the chloroform searches....

 

[sumbunny]

IMO that story about sick dogs was Cindy trying to take the blame for the chloroform searches, nothing more. A stupid lie, she didn't look up chlorophyll on the internet. If she had, she would have found that it is not harmful to dogs but it is used to clean their breath.

Yup, we know it's a lie. When the searches were conducted for chloroform Cindy was safely tucked away at work.

 

[Intermezzo]

Yup, we know it's a lie. When the searches were conducted for chloroform Cindy was safely tucked away at work.

Drat..Thwarted by those pesky timesheet logs.

 

[Solace]

IMO that story about sick dogs was Cindy trying to take the blame for the chloroform searches, nothing more. A stupid lie, she didn't look up chlorophyll on the internet. If she had, she would have found that it is not harmful to dogs but it is used to clean their breath.

And I remember reading George saying he did not know about any of the dogs being sick. I believe the prosecutors asked him this.

 

[Gma Kat]

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/casey-anthony-murder-trial/timeline-and-discovery/

In this article it was explained that not only was this one allele coming in under a generally accepted range to be used in court, and could not be properly called “DNA”, but there was a potential backfire to the defense touting this as coming from a stranger. The problem was that the DNA results from Brian Burner’s shovel showed a mixture of individuals that also came in under generally accepted levels. This mixture contains alleles (more than one, by the way) of what appears to be a male and female. It contains alleles (several) that are common to Caylee’s DNA results (both from the tibia and Jesse Grund’s paternity test results) as well as what appears to be Brian Burner’s DNA – which is no surprise since it’s his darned shovel! Brian Burner has a 17 allele in the D3S1358 loci just like the shadow 17 allele on Q64-2 test result of a piece of the duct tape on Caylee’s skull. The point being that if the defense was silly enough to take less than a human cell of a generally unacceptable test result on this one allele, they would open the door to the state showing the possible connections between Caylee’s DNA, Brian Burner’s DNA, and the shovel Casey borrowed in the week of Caylee’s death (and most likely disposal).

I think this is significant.

When you put it that way I must agree!!!! :bowdown:

Your explanation is awesome and gives me comfort to know these issues will be cleared up for the jury, just like you cleared this up for me.

Since this territory is :whoosh: