The wait for closing arguments discussion thread

[Wondergirl]

Rodney Stafford:

One thing I have noticed, is, from the time we got into the courtroom at 10:00 am until now, is the amount of time that it took for them to take Tori, get out of town and do what they had to do, and it’s done. That’s how quickly it went. People on the outside have to be aware that this is happening and we’ve got to stop it.

 

[matou]

does anyone have a link to the actual date when the police put out the video of TLM and TS walking by the school...thanks...

I found a link to a youtube video of the footage as released by the Sentinel Review (this is who posted the video). It is dated April 9, 2009. There was an enhanced video released afterwards on April 12th.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY6GQVJz3HE&list=UUsUI9bdpKYcM8HsJozLQH5g&index=150&feature=plcp"]Video believed to show missing girl - YouTube[/ame]

 

[roseofsharon]

does anyone have a link to the actual date when the police put out the video of TLM and TS walking by the school...thanks...

Police release video surveillance day after abduction ...



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/03/08/stafford-trial-thurs.html

 

[Macright]

not that is means diddly squat but I didn't know that TLM was a non status aboriginal...interesting..IMO (can supply link if required)..

 

[JayFriend]

The local LE website had this info:

Update 09APR09 Press Release

Police are now able to confirm that the young person referred to in the previous Press Release and surveillance video is in fact Victoria Stafford.

Further Description of female with white coat observed on surveillance video:

White female 19-25 years old. Approximately 51 52 and 120-125 lbs. Straight long black hair past the shoulders worn in a pony tail. Female was wearing tight black jeans and a white puffy winter jacket.

Anyone with information is asked to contact the Oxford Community Police Service at 519-537-2323 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477

http://www.ocpsaux.org/PRESS RELEASEFrame1Source1.htm

So that confirms that the white coat long black hair CASS surveillance video was released before the April 11 statement by the defence witness.

 

[Wondergirl]

So, the defenses theory is that TLM entered the school, presumably walked around, looked for Tori, found her (while Tori was fetching her butterfly earings? Where was her classroom in relation to the door anyway?), left with her out the door and walked up the street to Rafferty in the waiting vehicle.

There is not one other child, parent, grandparent or teacher that seen TLM enter the school, find Tori, leave with Tori? Not 1 child out of 326?

How did TLM know that Tori went back in to get her butterfly earings?

I believe Granny did see TLM with Tori.

I just don't think she witnessed her going into the school.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that TLM found Tori in the school and exited with her without another sole seeing her.

JMO

 

[Macright]

Police release video surveillance day after abduction ...



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/03/08/stafford-trial-thurs.html

thanks....

 

[crazyladi]

No kidding. She knows a little girl was abducted. She knows she saw a woman with that little girl, yet doesn't think it was important enough to mention that she saw the woman go into the school because "they didn't ask"?

So I understand this right, today was the first time the information that she went inside the school was mentioned ? She wasn't asked?

Also can some confirm the time frame of when Amanda dated mr? I think that's her name. The one that that had a daughter that was friends with tori.

 

[Wondergirl]

Mike Knoll from LFP interviews Randy Richmond in this video. Very good video interview, 8 minutes, worth the watch. Randy sheds some light on a few things.

Rafferty doesn't testify

Last Updated: May 1, 2012 7:34pm

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/01/19704156.html

 

[Jezbel]

So I understand this right, today was the first time the information that she went inside the school was mentioned ? She wasn't asked?

Also can some confirm the time frame of when Amanda dated mr? I think that's her name. The one that that had a daughter that was friends with tori.

CL I will try to find the link after, but iirc they started dating before Tori was taken. The day after she went missing I think Amanda testified that she had called MR and said that her friends little girl had gone missing. HTH

 

[CarrieBean]

So I understand this right, today was the first time the information that she went inside the school was mentioned ? She wasn't asked?

Also can some confirm the time frame of when Amanda dated mr? I think that's her name. The one that that had a daughter that was friends with tori.

From what I understand, she didn't mention it in her first interview with LE.

 

[roseofsharon]

So I understand this right, today was the first time the information that she went inside the school was mentioned ? She wasn't asked?

Also can some confirm the time frame of when Amanda dated mr? I think that's her name. The one that that had a daughter that was friends with tori.

IIRC, in the MR police interview tape, he was seeing Amanda for a time period right before TS was murdered. IIRC, MR said Amanda was going to TM's after the abduction to provide emotional support and that's when their dating just fell by the wayside type thing. MOO

 

[CarrieBean]

just throwing it out there...I found that info rather interesting myself..JMO

Curious why someone's race would be "rather interesting" and how it would pertain to this case.

 

[flipflop]

From what I understand, she didn't mention it in her first interview with LE.

Her first interview was just 4 days after the abduction...this would be fresh in her mind, but she fails to mention that she saw the woman in the video enter the school. THEN more than a month goes by and she is interviewed again and then comes up with this info......hmmmmm, something tells me that she saw nothing more than a person with a white coat enter the school...and we know how many of those were around woodstock at that time. I do not believe that TLM entered the school. MOO

 

[Wondergirl]

Does anyone remember the article about the Grandfather who seen Tori after she got her butterfly earrings that day? Wouldn't he have seen Tori with TLM? I can't find the article. Does anyone remember that?

ETA: I thought the Grandfather seen her. I guess he was going to give her a ride home. Here is the article. Here is what Tori did that day. Again, this does not jive with TLM going into the school.

3:25 p.m. Tori lines up for dismissal with other pupils at the southeast door of Oliver Stephens public school. She asks for and gets permission to get her butterfly earrings left in the classroom. She returns to the line just as the bell rings and she leaves with the other pupils.
How Tori ended up walking up the street alone remains unknown

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/12/09/16485631.html

 

[crazyladi]

IIRC, in the MR police interview tape, he was seeing Amanda for a time period right before TS was murdered. IIRC, MR said Amanda was going to TM's after the abduction to provide emotional support and that's when their dating just fell by the wayside type thing. MOO

So could it not be as likely for mr to be the connection?

I have to get on a computer to find some things out.

I am just wondering if it's possible if Amanda let some info slip about tm and her children etc. I know the crown never asked these questions but I feel that both Tlm and mr both had some sort of connection to tori.

Why would she goon the school if this is an accurate testimony?

Has she been there before? Did she pick up other kids she babysat at that school prior?

 

[swedie]

Wowzers just starting to read today's posts. You people have been busy bees today. Why am I not surprised MR never took the stand and the defense only called one witness today. That was a wee bit of a surprise for me as I honestly didn't think Derstine would have any witnesses to call. I see no reasonable doubt raised by Derstine with this witness, and by golly it was "his" witness. The one and only.

What really blew this witness' testimony for me is when she claimed what made her take notice of TLM is she was wearing a winter coat on such a warm day. Lo and behold the Crown brings forth the evidence the temperature that day was eight degrees and in reality it was not warm, more than likely colder that morning when the kiddies all headed off to school. If this witness would have noticed, I would imagine the majority, and probably her own grandchildren were dressed in warm or winter coats/clothing. How's that for observant?!

Then she claims to have taken a split second look at TLM upon driving down Fyfe street, saw TLM's side profile, and she noticed TLM had a scowl or some sort of downcast expression on her face, AND TLM was not wearing any make up. Wow she not only was very observant but had great eyesight to boot in order to tell TLM had no make up on. How would anyone be able to tell by at split second, side glance, how many feet away, whether someone had make up on? *scratches head*

Oh and she testified Tori was talking to TLM because her mouth was moving. Could it have been Tori may have been singing a song as she was supposedly skipping along behind TLM trying to keep up? Could it be possible Tori was chewing gum or candy? How was she so certain Tori was talking to TLM? Credible witness...IMHO definitely not. Sorry Derstine but if you are such a high profile, fabulous lawyer, I need to say you blew it big time in defending MR trial or creating reasonable doubt in any of your cross exams. Of course this is JMHO.

Friday...hmm.

 

[Wondergirl]

So, was Tori alone at this point?

About 3:30 p.m.

A man picks up his granddaughter at the school. Hey grandpa, the girl says. That's my friend Tori. Can we give her a ride home? She just moved near us.

The grandfather does not recognize the girl.

I can't just pick up a child I don't know, he tells his granddaughter. We don't know if somebody is supposed to meet her here.
The two drive on.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/12/09/16485631.html

 

[Wondergirl]

Did Grandpa ever go to LE? He spoke on condition of anonymity, thinking it didn't matter now, because Tori was dead.

What if it mattered?

Doesn't Grandpa's statement here refute the fact that TLM left from inside the school with Tori?

About a week after the abduction, the man spoke to The Free Press on the condition of anonymity.

By doing the right thing, he left Tori alone.

There is nothing he can do about it now, he says.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/12/09/16485631.html

 

[Tahorn]

thanks Nettie for reminding me about that person and the book...slipped my mind but it is all coming back..thanks...

Who was that?