The wait for closing arguments discussion thread

[Macright]

We don't know for a fact that MR has not had some support throughout this trial..when Dirk was asked the question by the press he said no but what other answer would we expect him to say...no one knows what they look like so we can't really state for a fact that no one was there amongst his family or friends...to me it means nothing..but I doubt he has been discarded by his family...maybe he advised them not to attend...JMO

 

[Ardy]

I don't believe TLM intended any harm come to VS that day.

I think she thought everything would be resolved, without any harm coming to VS.

For some reason, things escalated and TLM knew she was going to go to jail for a long time.

She had just been released from custody after serving 14 months for stabbing someone. She was on probation. No doubt about it.........she was going to jail with no chance at obtaining bail.

She also knew she would only be housed in the juvenile detention center until she reached the age of 18, and then would be transferred to a women's prison.

With all of this going through her head, she became enraged and that is when she killed VS.

What MR knew.............or how he became involved.........or what he did......

I will leave up to the jury and be glad I don't have to be the one to decide.

JMO............

 

[Dmman]

I don't believe TLM intended any harm come to VS that day.

I think she thought everything would be resolved, without any harm coming to VS.

For some reason, things escalated and TLM knew she was going to go to jail for a long time.

She had just been released from custody after serving 14 months for stabbing someone. She was on probation. No doubt about it.........she was going to jail with no chance at obtaining bail.

She also knew she would only be housed in the juvenile detention center until she reached the age of 18, and then would be transferred to a women's prison.

With all of this going through her head, she became enraged and that is when she killed VS.

What MR knew.............or how he became involved.........or what he did......

I will leave up to the jury and be glad I don't have to be the one to decide.

JMO............

Perhaps the reason was she saw her boyfriend of merely a couple/few months rape the child in the backseat of his car?

 

[roseofsharon]

I don't believe TLM intended any harm come to VS that day.

I think she thought everything would be resolved, without any harm coming to VS.

For some reason, things escalated and TLM knew she was going to go to jail for a long time.

She had just been released from custody after serving 14 months for stabbing someone. She was on probation. No doubt about it.........she was going to jail with no chance at obtaining bail.

She also knew she would only be housed in the juvenile detention center until she reached the age of 18, and then would be transferred to a women's prison.

With all of this going through her head, she became enraged and that is when she killed VS.

What MR knew.............or how he became involved.........or what he did......

I will leave up to the jury and be glad I don't have to be the one to decide.

JMO............

Respectfully, what would be resolved??? and TLM was not babysitting and should not have been with TS in the first place. MOO

 

[swedie]

Corroboration is essential to closing arguments. Other than the fact that TLM may have entered the school, I see an uphill battle for the defence. Suggestions are not supported by the evidence. The crown has proven their case. JMO

The way I see it is that "if" TLM entered the school as this witness testified to, someone would certainly have noticed her. We have how many adults and children in that close proximity and NO ONE saw TLM other then this woman? TLM a stranger at that. She was not someone who attended the school grounds on other days to pick up charges so she would have stuck out like a sore thumb to those who regularly were at the school. Besides what are the odds of one lone mother, waiting at the top of a hill for her children, to notice with unfamiliar face walking past but no one at the school took notice of her. That to me is very telling in of itself. I do not believe the defense's witness to be credible at all. I don't believe she's lying, I just think she had a whole month to think about it and gain new information from MSM and couldn't recall or was confused about what she actually saw or what she had heard in MSM. MOO

I still believe TLM's testimony 99.9%. She had nothing to lose and only something to gain. As evil as she is, she is still capable of telling the truth. MOO

 

[Ardy]

That Brandon fellow is popular. I bet that may have even been the "B" name Rafferty was trying to recollect with the police. JMO

more of his rap sheet:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3151967

So.......this Brandon gets caught with cocaine and is charged with trafficking and possession of stolen property in June 2011 and gets out on bail, and is awaiting trial and then gets caught again in September 2011 and is charged with trafficking and possession of stolen goods again.........................

And the people charged with him the second time...??

Good grief..........some things never change.

JMO

 

[Macright]

I know.........I hope you don't take as picking on you.

I wonder sometimes if people don't realize how deep and shady the drug world is.......or at least was in Woodstock at that time.

There was lots going on..........and some of it was violent at times.

Except for the ones at the top of the drug chain.......the people we are discussing are low level, low income and struggling to survive.

The $400 worth of pills that JG ripped off likely didn't belong to the street dealer.........but the dealer was the middle man and would have owed the money to someone else. The people higher up don't want to listen to the street dealers tale of woe about being ripped off. They hear that nonsense all the time. They want their money.

I also doubt that a street dealer would give someone $400 worth of pills on an IOU.

It doesn't work that way. Most likely JG stole the pills from someone........JMO.

I don't know if it has anything to do with the abduction.......but I thought TM's response was a little bit casual, considering what kind of business it is.

Oh yea.......my boyfriend ripped off someone for pills...........isn't a great thing to say.

JMO

I know nothing about the workings of the drug trade but know enough that there is usually the middle man... after what you have posted I wonder if CM was a small time seller with her oxys etc and no middle man involved..seems to me she would be the easiest one to "rip off" with no worries..what could someone like CM do to you BUT maybe they didn't consider her daughter TLM and what she could be capable of....JMO

 

[OhSoCurious]

So.......this Brandon gets caught with cocaine and is charged with trafficking and possession of stolen property in June 2011 and gets out on bail, and is awaiting trial and then gets caught again in September 2011 and is charged with trafficking and possession of stolen goods again.........................

And the people charged with him the second time...??

Good grief..........some things never change.

JMO

Indeed. I have read some of them carry the label "teflon".

 

[Macright]

So.......this Brandon gets caught with cocaine and is charged with trafficking and possession of stolen property in June 2011 and gets out on bail, and is awaiting trial and then gets caught again in September 2011 and is charged with trafficking and possession of stolen goods again.........................

And the people charged with him the second time...??

Good grief..........some things never change.

JMO

hope that little boy is no where around this scene and these people...JMO I can understand why RS is so upset besides what he is going through with this trial... JMO

 

[swedie]

I respect your opinion, I just disagree. I can't imagine the mother of the accused in one of Canada's most prolific crimes has to go to work each day & can't attend her sons trial. Maybe she can still follow twitter for updates.

With a mother & a couple of brothers, by now you would think someone would've made an appearance? JMO

Welcome and respectfully Dmman!

IMHO I believe it would be more appropriate for MR's family to stay away from the trial. As much as they might want to support him during the trial, I think they could possibly encounter many unwelcome issues with attending re: media being one. I'm sure the media would hound them for opinions and information. Although MR's family is innocent of any wrong doing in this case, I'm sure they wouldn't be looked upon favourably. Would make for a very uncomfortable situation for them and Tori's family I am sure but this is JMHO.

 

[Ardy]

Respectfully, what would be resolved??? and TLM was not babysitting and should not have been with TS in the first place. MOO

Whatever reason TLM took TS.

I am not buying the sexual desires theory.

There was something else going on that day......IMO.

JMO......

 

[OhSoCurious]

I know nothing about the workings of the drug trade but know enough that there is usually the middle man... after what you have posted I wonder if CM was a small time seller with her oxys etc and no middle man involved..seems to me she would be the easiest one to "rip off" with no worries..what could someone like CM do to you BUT maybe they didn't consider her daughter TLM and what she could be capable of....JMO

This sounds like a logical thinking path. JMO

 

[roseofsharon]

Whatever reason TLM took TS.

I am not buying the sexual desires theory.

There was something else going on that day......IMO.

JMO......

I think so too, but wonder why TLM just didn't spill all the beans. What did she have to lose by doing so.

However, MR is motivated by money, so IMO, I think whatever they were up to involved making a lot of money, but he needed TLM's help either to help pull it off or be a patsy.

I do believe that MR said TS was not young enough. MOO

 

[Ardy]

I know nothing about the workings of the drug trade but know enough that there is usually the middle man... after what you have posted I wonder if CM was a small time seller with her oxys etc and no middle man involved..seems to me she would be the easiest one to "rip off" with no worries..what could someone like CM do to you BUT maybe they didn't consider her daughter TLM and what she could be capable of....JMO

That is entirely possible, especially since TM said she was only over to CM's house on two occasions, but JG was there many times.

What could old CM do to them if they ripped her off for some pills?

But they didn't know the history of her daughter.......TLM.

TLM wouldn't have let someone rip off her mom.....that is for sure.

JMO...........

 

[antiquegirl]

This statement by Tuesday’s witness confounded me:

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court
Now she says she's sure the woman was the same. Notes now police "didn't ask" about the woman at the school in 2009.

I couldn’t understand why LE didn't ask more about the woman in the white coat. And then I re-read the Tweets and had a “lightbulb” moment. The above refers to the first interview on April 11th – a mere three days after Tori went missing. I think the following should explain that. MOO

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court /
The woman was walking briskly. The child "seemed to be happy". Witness assumed they were mother and daughter.

… Tara McDonald always seemed a prime suspect in the disappearance of her eight-year-old daughter.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/michele_mandel/2009/05/21/9519901-sun.html

Once a prime suspect in her daughter's kidnapping, McDonald, 33 …

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/03/07/toris-mom-to-take-the-stand

LE didn’t ask “grandma” any more questions on April 11th because they thought the woman walking with Tori was TM. She also thought it was the girl's mother. Even later, it would not seem significant to her that the woman walked into the school. Why would it? LE didn't seem all that interested just a few weeks before.

And then, on May 19th, TLM confessed to the crime and everything changed. “Grandma” was called back for another LE interview on May 26th and remembered a significant detail.

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP /
Derstine asking woman about statement to police on May 26, 2009.

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court
Derstine is reading the statement, it says the white coat woman, with dark hair, was near the school.

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court
It says she went in the front door. She saw the woman with a little girl later. No more questions.

So, After TM was no longer a suspect, LE questioned her in more depth. According to the above Tweets, the part about the front door was in her May 26th statement. It would therefore be part of the evidence that both the Crown and Derstine’s teams had access to for almost three years.

JMO

 

[Ardy]

I think so too, but wonder why TLM just didn't spill all the beans. What did she have to lose by doing so.

However, MR is motivated by money, so IMO, I think whatever they were up to involved making a lot of money, but he needed TLM's help either to help pull it off or be a patsy.

I do believe that MR said TS was not young enough. MOO

I don't think it was sexual..............but MR could easily have been involved iin the abduction.......thinking it would be resolved.........he might gain a little cash out of the deal.......and no one is the wiser.

That would explain everything except the sperm cells in that one spot of blood on the molding.

Was it there before? Did they move so much blood and stuff around when washing the inside that they spread it there? Did MR actually assault TS?

Don't know really..................

But I really believe we have not heard all the story.

All someone has to do is look at events over the past year or so.........and wonder if some people ever tell the truth.

RS does..............and he is busting to find out what really happened as well.

JMO...........

 

[Macright]

This statement by Tuesday’s witness confounded me:



I couldn’t understand why LE didn't ask more about the woman in the white coat. And then I re-read the Tweets and had a “lightbulb” moment. The above refers to the first interview on April 11th – a mere three days after Tori went missing. I think the following should explain that. MOO





http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/michele_mandel/2009/05/21/9519901-sun.html


http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/03/07/toris-mom-to-take-the-stand

LE didn’t ask “grandma” any more questions on April 11th because they thought the woman walking with Tori was TM. She also thought it was the girl's mother. Even later, it would not seem significant to her that the woman walked into the school. Why would it? LE didn't seem all that interested just a few weeks before.

And then, on May 19th, TLM confessed to the crime and everything changed. “Grandma” was called back for another LE interview on May 26th and remembered a significant detail.






So, After TM was no longer a suspect, LE questioned her in more depth. According to the above Tweets, the part about the front door was in her May 26th statement. It would therefore be part of the evidence that both the Crown and Derstine’s teams had access to for almost three years.

JMO

I concur.....

 

[Ardy]

Welcome and respectfully Dmman!

IMHO I believe it would be more appropriate for MR's family to stay away from the trial. As much as they might want to support him during the trial, I think they could possibly encounter many unwelcome issues with attending re: media being one. I'm sure the media would hound them for opinions and information. Although MR's family is innocent of any wrong doing in this case, I'm sure they wouldn't be looked upon favourably. Would make for a very uncomfortable situation for them and Tori's family I am sure but this is JMHO.

That is a very good point about Tories family.

If MR's family showed up for support, maybe they felt it would be disrespectful to VS family to show up for the trial.

JMO........

 

[Alethea Dice]

This statement by Tuesday’s witness confounded me:



I couldn’t understand why LE didn't ask more about the woman in the white coat. And then I re-read the Tweets and had a “lightbulb” moment. The above refers to the first interview on April 11th – a mere three days after Tori went missing. I think the following should explain that. MOO





http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/michele_mandel/2009/05/21/9519901-sun.html


http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/03/07/toris-mom-to-take-the-stand

LE didn’t ask “grandma” any more questions on April 11th because they thought the woman walking with Tori was TM. She also thought it was the girl's mother. Even later, it would not seem significant to her that the woman walked into the school. Why would it? LE didn't seem all that interested just a few weeks before.

And then, on May 19th, TLM confessed to the crime and everything changed. “Grandma” was called back for another LE interview on May 26th and remembered a significant detail.






So, After TM was no longer a suspect, LE questioned her in more depth. According to the above Tweets, the part about the front door was in her May 26th statement. It would therefore be part of the evidence that both the Crown and Derstine’s teams had access to for almost three years.

JMO

That's exactly how I took her testimony as well. The first interview, she thought it was TM and TM was LE's prime focus at that point. Nothing more was thought about it. After TLM confessed, the witness went back for further questioning. That could have also been what made her think more about TLM walking into the front door of the school. Unfortunately, by then, that no longer matched what was then LE's new theory of what had happened and she was basically ignored. No wonder the poor woman didn't want to testify.

 

[Macright]

I don't think it was sexual..............but MR could easily have been involved iin the abduction.......thinking it would be resolved.........he might gain a little cash out of the deal.......and no one is the wiser.

That would explain everything except the sperm cells in that one spot of blood on the molding.

Was it there before? Did they move so much blood and stuff around when washing the inside that they spread it there? Did MR actually assault TS?

Don't know really..................

But I really believe we have not heard all the story.

All someone has to do is look at events over the past year or so.........and wonder if some people ever tell the truth.

RS does..............and he is busting to find out what really happened as well.

JMO...........

if the verdict comes back guilty on all charges this story and all involved will be blown wide open on appeal and we know that there will be an appeal...then the dirt will hit the fan...JMO I said weeks ago that there is a dark cloud hanging over some players in this and I still think that to be true...JMO I bet there are fingernails bitten down to the quick as we speak..JMO