Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody and/or Associates

[SherlockJr]

On the 1910 Pennsylvania Miracode Index, there are only two Giordano families that have a son named Anthony, and both of them are age 3. One of the families (parents are Pasquale and Amelia Giordano) later moved to New Jersey by the time Anthony would have been fighting, so I've eliminated them...

Philadelphia is not very far from New Jersey, within an hour drive I believe.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

The only thing that makes me question if the above Giordano family is our Anthony's family is the fact that Anthony is listed as a tailor for his occupation, and not a boxer. However, since his last fight in Philly was in 1927, I suppose he could have changed careers in order to help earn money for the family during the Depression.

I do know that Brody showed a strong interest in dressing nicely. He wore expensive classically styled suits and Waters eventually started to mimic Brody's manner of dress. Brody might have been a tailor at one time, or he could have merely been a natty dresser.

I did find a message on Ancestry.com for someone searching for Josephine, but I can't tell if it's the same Josephine. The interesting thing, though, is that it traces her to Missouri in the 1950's, which is the timeframe for when the Giordano crime family became active in the St. Louis area. OTOH, this could be totally unrelated and is probably a much younger Josephine than our's would be (our's was born in approximately 1905).

I agree that this Josephine seems to young to be a match.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie, you sent me a photo of Margaret from a newspaper article. I had it, but can't find it now. Maybe, when you have time (sure!), you can scan the photo without the article and post it for us. I think she was a nurse at Letterman, which is or was a military hospital, but I can't remember whether she actually was in the military.

I have sent the photograph of Margaret from the newspaper article to MB. Unfortunately, the quality is very poor (a scan of a copy of a newspaper article), but it should serve the purpose.

Margaret was in the Navy while serving at Letterman Hospital from 1943-1951. She was a civilian in 1953 when her legal troubles started.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I think I missed something. What legal troubles did Margaret have?

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I think I missed something. What legal troubles did Margaret have?

She was arrested in January 1953 and was put on probation for a period. The actual charge was related to medical procedures that were illegal in California at the time.

 

[mjak]

Philadelphia is not very far from New Jersey, within an hour drive I believe.

Camden NJ is right over the bridge from Philly. He could certanitly have been
living in Jersey when boxing in philly.

mjak

 

[HeartofTexas]

Thanks... I didn't realize they were so close. So maybe it's not the tailor!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I was reviewing some of the older posts and I had to laugh: during the course of just a few months, we have gone from a theory that Brody was a transexual to him now being a top rated boxer who fought some of the best fighters of his era. I think that just about covers the whole spectrum! :waitasec:

 

[mbroemsen]

No kidding!

In terms of Margaret - she was actually stationed in San Fran while in the Navy, correct?(not travelling on a boat?) This would mean she could have met Brody at any point during that time - which makes it seem odd they could both be from bucks when they were kids. Perhaps they recognized each other or something...

Also, MArgaret had to go to nursing school somewhere... My mom is a nurse and she still has pictures and occassionlly corresponds with some of these ladies. The older ladies are much more interested in keeping track of classmates... Perhaps if we can find her classmates someone might have some information...

 

[Dr. Doogie]

In terms of Margaret - she was actually stationed in San Fran while in the Navy, correct?(not travelling on a boat?) This would mean she could have met Brody at any point during that time - which makes it seem odd they could both be from bucks when they were kids. Perhaps they recognized each other or something...

Maraget was stationed on land at the army base (even though she was in the Navy). It is possible that she met Brody in SF, that they knew each other in PA and met up in SF, or that they travelled to SF from PA together. I am hoping that a response from the Kukoda family will answer this question (among other things).

Also, Margaret had to go to nursing school somewhere... My mom is a nurse and she still has pictures and occassionlly corresponds with some of these ladies. The older ladies are much more interested in keeping track of classmates... Perhaps if we can find her classmates someone might have some information...

Good idea, but I do not know where to start on this investigation. Any suggestions, WSers?

 

[Annasmom]

Maraget was stationed on land at the army base (even though she was in the Navy). It is possible that she met Brody in SF, that they knew each other in PA and met up in SF, or that they travelled to SF from PA together. I am hoping that a response from the Kukoda family will answer this question (among other things).


Good idea, but I do not know where to start on this investigation. Any suggestions, WSers?

Doogie, I found the following from the California Board of Registered Nursing:
Kukoda, Margaret Mary
Registered Nurse
License Number 58266
License Status: Revoked
Expiration date: April 30, 1958
Issue date: January 31, 1947
County: San Francisco

 

[HeartofTexas]

I assume if the issue date of her license was January 31, 1947, then Margaret must have been in SF as early as 1946. I wonder where she went to nursing school... San Francisco or back East?

Thanks for the info, Annasmom.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie, I found the following from the California Board of Registered Nursing:
Kukoda, Margaret Mary
Registered Nurse
License Number 58266
License Status: Revoked
Expiration date: April 30, 1958
Issue date: January 31, 1947
County: San Francisco

ANNASMOM! You're becoming quite a little sleuther yourself!

Margaret was listed as being in the Navy between 1943 and 1951. I had assumed that she was at Letterman the whole time, but that may be erroneous. I suspect that the revocation was related to her legal issues which occured in 1953, so where the heck was she between 1951 and 1953? The article about her arrest only mentioned her stint at Letterman, no other hospital affiliation or place of employment.

 

[HeartofTexas]

If Margaret was in the Navy between 1943-1951, and her nursing license was issued in 1947, then she obviously got her nursing license thru the Navy. Does that seem like an acceptable answer to our question on where she got her license, or should we pursue this further?

Also, Doogie, why are you only interested in the years 51-53? Do we know what she was doing from 54-58 already?

 

[hoping4truth]

Maraget was stationed on land at the army base (even though she was in the Navy). It is possible that she met Brody in SF, that they knew each other in PA and met up in SF, or that they travelled to SF from PA together. I am hoping that a response from the Kukoda family will answer this question (among other things).


Good idea, but I do not know where to start on this investigation. Any suggestions, WSers?

Now that annasmom has info about Ms. Kokuda, including a license number, is it possible to get info from that number to find out what school she graduated from in order to get licensed? She'd have to fill out an app to get the number, and the state would have to have info about her education on file wouldn't they?

According to http://www.allnursingschools.com/faqs/be_rn.php

"Each state has a Board of Nursing which is responsible for setting requirements and licensing nurses who practice in that state. Registered Nurse is the name of the license granted to professional nurses. To earn an RN license, you must pass a comprehensive nursing test, called the NCLEX® examination, which is administered by each state. But to qualify to sit for the NCLEX examination, you must first complete a nursing education program that is approved by your state's Board of Nursing.

Many states also require continuing education after you are licensed to keep your nursing license current."

Don't know if that was the practice back then or not, but it's worth a shot, don't you think?

 

[Dr. Doogie]

If Margaret was in the Navy between 1943-1951, and her nursing license was issued in 1947, then she obviously got her nursing license thru the Navy. Does that seem like an acceptable answer to our question on where she got her license, or should we pursue this further?

Also, Doogie, why are you only interested in the years 51-53? Do we know what she was doing from 54-58 already?

Your assumption about where she got her license seems valid.

My question about the 1951-1953 period is based on the assumption that she was still in the medical field and I was curious were she was working at that time. After she lost her license, she worked at various furniture import companies as a sales rep, so we have an idea of what she was doing "post-nurse".

 

[scotch117]

If you need anyone to go look things up physically in the philladelphia/NJ area, I have a daughter there who is a bit of a library/research/mystery geek. Just PM me as I don't check here but about every other week or so.

 

[MagicRose99]

I do know the Medical Board (for physicians) does display the medical school a doctor attended, but notice that the Registered Nurses do not display the school. It is possible if you call them that they'll give you the info...

It's up to the board how much they display on their websites... but, if the information is public (which I believe the school info is) they are required to provide it to you. You may have to put your request in writing if they don't do it over the telephone.

...."Each state has a Board of Nursing which is responsible for setting requirements and licensing nurses who practice in that state. Registered Nurse is the name of the license granted to professional nurses. To earn an RN license, you must pass a comprehensive nursing test, called the NCLEX® examination, which is administered by each state. But to qualify to sit for the NCLEX examination, you must first complete a nursing education program that is approved by your state's Board of Nursing.

Many states also require continuing education after you are licensed to keep your nursing license current."

Don't know if that was the practice back then or not, but it's worth a shot, don't you think?

 

[MagicRose99]

I found this from Navy Nurse Corps Association, it's their msg board:
http://www.nnca.org/dc/dcboard.php

If Margaret was in the Navy between 1943-1951, and her nursing license was issued in 1947, then she obviously got her nursing license thru the Navy. Does that seem like an acceptable answer to our question on where she got her license, or should we pursue this further?

Also, Doogie, why are you only interested in the years 51-53? Do we know what she was doing from 54-58 already?

 

[tuitsweet]

I found this list of significant personell at Letterman Hospital's Nursing Program, which is an ARMY NURSE CORPS and Hospital. If someone wants to search some of these eut who might remember Margaret, I can not locate her name anywhere....yet

http://history.amedd.army.mil/ANCWebsite/append.htm#appa