Things that make you wonder

[LancelotLink]

Do you happen to have a link to that video? I overlooked all this and would like to watch it again. TIA

here ya go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7QYbLkDsWU

 

[spyhouston]

Some things I "wonder" about on June 16:

GA said KC left 12:50p and told him she and Caylee would be spending the night w/Zani, and she had already told mom she wouldn't be home that night.

1 - why does her written statement say she went to pick up Caylee 'like a normal day'...so, she wasn't planning to stay with Zani like she told dad and mom?

2 - CA said she called somewhere around 7p to say she wouldn't be home but KC told dad she had already told mom before 12:50p.

3 - If KC's written statement accidently used 6/9 instead of 6/16, then her statement refers to talking with 'Zenaida' by phone on 6/12, which if you shift the dates would now be 6/19. I wonder why no other mention - ever - of talking w/Zani by phone after Caylee's disappearance.

Good grief these are basic differences that just don't add up, and that's only the beginning of the downward spiral of tales told by this family about 6/15-16. I wonder how CA, GA, KC thought anyone would buy into the stories.

 

[BeanE]

Some things I "wonder" about on June 16:

GA said KC left 12:50p and told him she and Caylee would be spending the night w/Zani, and she had already told mom she wouldn't be home that night.

1 - why does her written statement say she went to pick up Caylee 'like a normal day'...so, she wasn't planning to stay with Zani like she told dad and mom?

2 - CA said she called somewhere around 7p to say she wouldn't be home but KC told dad she had already told mom before 12:50p.

3 - If KC's written statement accidently used 6/9 instead of 6/16, then her statement refers to talking with 'Zenaida' by phone on 6/12, which if you shift the dates would now be 6/19. I wonder why no other mention - ever - of talking w/Zani by phone after Caylee's disappearance.

Good grief these are basic differences that just don't add up, and that's only the beginning of the downward spiral of tales told by this family about 6/15-16. I wonder how CA, GA, KC thought anyone would buy into the stories.

I had wondered about the conflicting series of events you note, and some months ago I found in George's FBI interview he backtracks and says that KC did not actually tell him directly that morning that she had a meeting and would be crashing at Z's, but that she actually called Cindy later in the day and told her, and that Cindy had then told him.

If I further recall correctly, the FBI agent had to question him and pin him down on whether KC said this directly to him in the morning, or whether this was something Cindy had told him later.

It stuck in my mind because I began at that point to seriously wonder how much of Cindy, George, and Lee's statements were actually things they had direct knowledge of, and how much was something one of the others or KC had told them. It wasn't the first time I'd heard one of them state something as a fact they had direct knowledge of, and later found it was something told to them, or something there was more to (e.g. Cindy at the bond hearing saying 'we've known Z for years' which meant 'KC talked about Z for years but we never met or talked to Z or had any evidence that she actually existed).

 

[eddeva]

I found in George's FBI interview he backtracks and says that KC did not actually tell him directly that morning that she had a meeting and would be crashing at Z's, but that she actually called Cindy later in the day and told her, and that Cindy had then told him.

*resp. snipped.
this is one of my pet obsessions. not sure if i've posted this before so if i have, please forgive me for going on ...
if tony really didn't allow caylee at his place then i'd love to know if she told him that caylee wouldn't be there that evening and was staying w/ the nanny, b/c if she told both tony and cindy that caylee would be absent that night then this alone should show premeditation, or at least knowledge that caylee was already dead.

 

[RevCrim]

Here's something that makes me wonder.....I had an aha moment. Sorry if anyone beat me to it.

Has anyone else thought that maybe Casey was raped, and Caylee was a result of it? It might explain why the pregnancy was a secret, why Casey may have resented Caylee, why the father is still unknown, why some of Casey's actions are/were what they are, why her personality changed/lying started.

The rape issue has crossed my mind- as well as the possiblility that it may have been someone who went to jail or prison also. I recall from somewhere, whereby, KC told a friend that some guy just got out of prison after serving 3 yrs, and they need to get together to welcome him home. This was very early in the case and I can no longer find it. Must have been in her Myspace
or something that has been removed. I could have sworn the name was Jeff.
Maybe, someone else recalls this.

 

[frenchvixen]

She tells 911 the it smells like there's a dead body in the car and she GOES BACK TO WORK?????????????

I just can't get over that! Her boss had to instruct her to go home to take care of her personal business!! Who does that???? Who goes back to work when they smell death in the car of their daughter who has been missing and refusing to allow access to their granddaughter???? What kind of person does she expect us to believe she is??? The thought of her going back to work when she knows what she smelled in the car just makes my head start to vibrate like it's going to implode!!!!!

She makes me want to scream and never stop!
:razz::banghead:uke::furious:

I think the explanation to CA's behavior after smelling the smell of death can be compared to someone crossing the street and seeing a truck coming and just standing there and getting hit instead of running. Pure shock. CA was shocked. Do you realize how hard it is to admit that someone in your family has been murdered. She was in shock at that point. She just wanted to see her sweet Caylee and was in denial. Sometimes I feel sorry for CA and sometimes I just want to scream also but in this instance I try to put myself in that position and I don't know what I would have done.

 

[Friday]

I've thought about this also, and finally concluded that she could simply not make the jump in her mind from KC being immature and vindictive in keeping Caylee away to "punish" Cindy to KC doing actual harm to her child. As a parent she didn't want to involve LE in a family matter that could potentially paint her daughter in a negative light, possibly resulting in having Caylee removed from the home and placed in foster care. I don't think that she should be excoriated for not knowing KC was a murderer. Many families go through similar arguments and there may not be visiting amongst the for months at a time. If KC and the baby hadn't been living on Hopespring with the A's, this could have gone undetected for much longer.

Thought-provoking post, and the part I bolded in red was a very important and new (to me) factor I'd never considered before. Thought it might be a good idea to re-state it for others here who might have overlooked it before.

 

[nyvictoria]

I think the explanation to CA's behavior after smelling the smell of death can be compared to someone crossing the street and seeing a truck coming and just standing there and getting hit instead of running. Pure shock. CA was shocked. Do you realize how hard it is to admit that someone in your family has been murdered. She was in shock at that point. She just wanted to see her sweet Caylee and was in denial. Sometimes I feel sorry for CA and sometimes I just want to scream also but in this instance I try to put myself in that position and I don't know what I would have done.

I see your point that Cindy may very possibly have been in shock and/or denial. I understand Caylee was her life. I, too, felt sorry for Cindy until she started bashing LE and back-pedaling on her initial statements. By the time Cindy started talking to AH, she already had the pizza story tied up nicely with a bow on top. That shows me she was thinking very clearly.

Shock or no shock, how does one go back to work after finding that car? She wrote her July 3rd myspace, desperate to see Caylee. She got the letter about the car and had to be worried sick...where was Casey? Where was her Caylee?? They picked up the car and found Casey's pocketbook!! Caylee's doll!! Were they hurt? kidnapped? murdered? Where were they??? But Cindy went back to work as if it was just a minor inconvenience in a rather ordinary day! Doesn't compute with me.

I'm not giving George a pass on this one, either. Cindy told him to go to work and he did just that! His statements to LE confirm he knew what he smelled in that car. With his background, seeing the doll and the pocketbook in the car should have scared the s**t out of him! But, no, Cindy told him to go and he did just that.

Bottom line, either they already knew what happened or they're just not human. This family's behavior will haunt me for a very long time!

All JMHO

 

[Friday]

Does anyone remember that home video... the one that shows Casey standing in the kitchen holding Caylee, and then Cindy smashes cake in Casey's face? The 'normal' reaction would have been to try and put cake on Cindy's face, but instead, Casey smashes cake into innocent little Caylee's face.

Cindy smashes cake in Casey's face...
Casey didn't take her 'revenge' or 'retaliation' by trying to do the same back to her mother.
Instead, she turns it on little Caylee.

The first time I heard about Cindy trying to strangle Casey in the fight they allegedly had on June 15th, I immediately thought of this video.

Does this scenario seem plausible... Cindy tried to strangle Casey, so Casey in turn strangled Caylee?

Lancelot sent me the link so I could watch this video again, and I saw just what you meant.

I'd like to raise another question here regarding that cake-in-the-face scene: Isn't it a little peculiar for a 50 year old woman to want to smear cake on another grown woman's (KC's) face? I guess I just don't see Cindy as a playful, overly-exhuberant gal.

BTW, this is just a passing comment that probably stems from the fact that I'm getting old. Realllly old. LOL

 

[NSS]

I have often 'wondered' about why, upon smelling death in the car, they instantly assume Caylee is in trouble and go searching for KC?

If I hadn't seen my daughter or grandaughter for a few days and I discovered the car they were using had been towed and smelled of death. I'd have called the police right there from the yard. I'd have feared for BOTH of them, not just the baby.
There is an expectation, without the benefit of hindsight, that if a baby is dead, then her mother is too, a sort of "over my dead body" protective instinct.

 

[Vegas Bride]

The rape issue has crossed my mind- as well as the possiblility that it may have been someone who went to jail or prison also. I recall from somewhere, whereby, KC told a friend that some guy just got out of prison after serving 3 yrs, and they need to get together to welcome him home. This was very early in the case and I can no longer find it. Must have been in her Myspace
or something that has been removed. I could have sworn the name was Jeff.
Maybe, someone else recalls this.

Something I've wondered about for a while now.
Casey says she's a virgin, yet is pregnant.
Now I do not think Casey is a modern day Virgin Mary, so what could explain this?
Could Casey have been at a party and been slipped a date rape drug? She could then have absolutely no recollection of having sex even if there had been multiple rapists. This could explain her having no expectations of becomming pregnant and not picking up on the signs early on, after all if you are not having sex would you be thinking you could be pregnant if you miss a few periods? This also could explain how no father is known and also why no father has ever come forward.

Just trying to make sense of something that makes no sense.

VB

 

[LancelotLink]

I don't know if this has been discussed yet. I was looking about to see if I could learn what George said during his grand jury testimony.
He asked for the public to keep his family, especially Caylee, in their prayers. "If someone could take a moment out at 11 o'clock this morning and 11 o'clock tonight and just pray for her. That's all I'm asking for. That's all I can say."
I am curious as to the significance of 11 o'clock.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/14/caylee.grand.jury/index.html
ETA-I can't read. He stated this before he went in to testify. So, I will assume 11 o'clock am was when he thought he would be called.

 

[Vegas Bride]

I have often 'wondered' about why, upon smelling death in the car, they instantly assume Caylee is in trouble and go searching for KC?

If I hadn't seen my daughter or grandaughter for a few days and I discovered the car they were using had been towed and smelled of death. I'd have called the police right there from the yard. I'd have feared for BOTH of them, not just the baby.
There is an expectation, without the benefit of hindsight, that if a baby is dead, then her mother is too, a sort of "over my dead body" protective instinct.

They would know what date the car had been towed, after that date I believe they did hear from Casey through Text etc, however they had not been able to speak to Caylee. I can understand them having the worries about Caylee but thinking Casey was not the cause of the smell.
I do think they already had cause to worry about Caylee even before the car was found and Cindy had to be getting all kinds of "womans instict" kicking in and telling her something was wrong.

VB

 

[kew17]

The only reason I don't necessarily agree with the date or otherwise rape threory, is I feel KC would have played that number to the hilt for sympathy and CA would have moved Heaven and Earth to find her assailant(s) and had them prosecuted. JMHO

 

[kew17]

I don't know if this has been discussed yet. I was looking about to see if I could learn what George said during his grand jury testimony. I found a quote from afterwards I found odd.
He asked for the public to keep his family, especially Caylee, in their prayers. "If someone could take a moment out at 11 o'clock this morning and 11 o'clock tonight and just pray for her. That's all I'm asking for. That's all I can say."
I am curious as to the significance of 11 o'clock.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/14/caylee.grand.jury/index.html

I REMEMBER THAT!! It stuck out like a sore thumb to me as well. But I got all caught up in something else and forgot about it.
Humm.... you may have something significant here.....

 

[smart blonde]

Lancelot sent me the link so I could watch this video again, and I saw just what you meant.

I'd like to raise another question here regarding that cake-in-the-face scene: Isn't it a little peculiar for a 50 year old woman to want to smear cake on another grown woman's (KC's) face? I guess I just don't see Cindy as a playful, overly-exhuberant gal.

BTW, this is just a passing comment that probably stems from the fact that I'm getting old. Realllly old. LOL

After re-watching the video just now myself, I completely agree.

The manner in which Cindy grabs Caylee's arm to quickly and forcefully smear the cake into Casey's face is very telling to me, too.

Cindy USES CAYLEE to get at Casey.

Both literally and metaphorically.

Cindy doesn't come off as being fun and playful when she did that, she just seems 'mean' and juvenile, in my opinion.

BTW... Thank you, Lancelot, for the link!

 

[nyvictoria]

The only reason I don't necessarily agree with the date or otherwise rape threory, is I feel KC would have played that number to the hilt for sympathy and CA would have moved Heaven and Earth to find her assailant(s) and had them prosecuted. JMHO

my bold

I don't agree with the rape theory either. I don't think Cindy would have any interaction whatsoever with Caylee, let alone love her more than she loved her daughter. If Casey was raped, I don't think Cindy would want anyone to know.

 

[kaybee]

Actually, CA could have reported the car stolen. Just because you let let someone drive a vehicle legally registered to you, does not give them the right to abuse the privilege. As you retain responsibililty for, and rights, to any vehicle of which you are the legal owner, if your property is missing you have every right to report it stolen.

I agree with this idea in principal, but after working for the local police department, I've found that it doesn't "work" that way. An officer will not report a car as stolen if the person who is driving it had permission at any time to drive it. Even if the registered owner told the person to have it home at a certain time. This means if you ever lend your car to someone and they don't come home with it (let's say they take off for the weekend in it without your permission), the car will not be entered into the system as "stolen". Usually our auto theft detective will review the case and after a certain period of time has elapsed (anywhere from a few days to weeks) the car may then be entered. Sometimes it never gets the approval as a bonifide "stolen" vehicle. This car may have been registered to Cindy or George, but Casey had permission to use it as her own vehicle. It would most likely be considered a "civil" issue, and the police avoid getting involved in civil issues.
The same issue also applies for allowing someone to spend the night at your home. If they decide they are going to stay without your consent after the one night, good luck trying to get them forcible removed (so long as they are not acting violent or threatening to you)--even if they aren't on the lease. . . it will most likely be considered a "civil" matter, and you will have to go through a legal eviction process.
Another area police consider "civil" is child custody issues. They will usually advise the complaining party to pursue the matter in family court. They generally don't get involved with forcing parent A to hand a child over to parent B, even if the paperwork states that the child is to be with parent B Sunday nights after 4 pm. Now if there's evidence of abuse of the child, they get child protective services involved. Otherwise, it will be handled in family court.
I suppose if I had known this stuff before I started working at the police station, I would have thought the police were "lame". But I see all the stuff they are asked to do, and frankly, they wouldn't be able to fight crime (assaults, robberies, rapes, etc), if all their time was spent hunting down people who didn't come home with the car on time, or a legal adult daughter who decides grandma just isn't going to get to see her grandchild. It's not illegal to be an a-hole. The police work their butts off, and believe me, they still have to go to plenty of calls where they are basically babysitting adults who have no clue how to manage their own lives.
The only thing Cindy and George could have done involving the police is to request a welfare check on Caylee, but to do that, you have to know where the person is. I don't think they had any idea where Casey was for the most part, so the police would have no address to check on little Caylee. The other thing I suppose they could do is request a "civil standy" where the police show up for a short period of time while the parents drop by Casey's location to check on Caylee. But again, they didn't know where Caylee was. . . so where would they even go to check?
The officers I work with are caring individuals. . . . but how much can they really do in a situation like this? Their hands would have been tied. I'm sure it's frustrating to them at times, but they have to work within the specified policies and procedures of the law enforcement group they work with. Anyways, just my two cents worth!!

 

[smart blonde]

Is it possible that when Cindy made the initial call about the car being stolen, she was actually toying with the idea of making it seem as if the car had been stolen by a stranger, therefore deflecting attention from Casey's possible involvement regarding the smell of a dead body in the car?

And, then her anger and frustration towards Casey took over, and that plan went out the window?

I don't know, maybe I should listen to the 911 calls again.

 

[LancelotLink]

After re-watching the video just now myself, I completely agree.

The manner in which Cindy grabs Caylee's arm to quickly and forcefully smear the cake into Casey's face is very telling to me, too.

Cindy USES CAYLEE to get at Casey.

Both literally and metaphorically.

Cindy doesn't come off as being fun and playful when she did that, she just seems 'mean' and juvenile, in my opinion.

BTW... Thank you, Lancelot, for the link!

anytime! I found the whole cake smashing a bit Cagneyesque...