Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo (Part 2)

[L L & S]

The feeder stuck their arm under the cage bars is what I heard. This was a wild animal. They redesigned the feeding area after the incident. The tiger was not considered responsible for the incident.

Link

The Cal-OSHA report, finalized on Wednesday, said that, just before the attack last December, Tatiana was exhibiting behavior focused on an object in the drain trough outside the cage face and that a piece of meat might have fallen into it during the feeding.

"The injured made a hand gesture and talked to the tiger," the report said. "The injured then reached into the drain trough to retrieve the item which was in the hazard zone. At this point, the tiger reached under the cage bars and grabbed the right arm of the injured with its paws.

"The injured tried to get the tiger to release by using her left hand, at which point the tiger then grabbed the left arm. The tiger had put the right hand of the injured in its mouth, and using its retractile claws, pulled her arms into the cage, resulting in lacerations to the left arm and degloving of the right forearm."

I went back and got this link from the first thread. Lot's more at link. My bold.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Link

I went back and got this link from the first thread. Lot's more at link. My bold.

Thanks for posting that L L & S. The first rule of feeding. Never, never, ever, attempt to take food away from a wild animal

 

[FlowerChild]

Hockeymom,

Did this expert talk about why the tiger attacked and pulled the arm off a person who was feeding it? Was the tiger really really mad that it was being fed?

She didn't "pull her arm off", she bit her - actually to get HER DINNER back, not unprovoked. And as others have said - it was THE KEEPER'S FAULT. You NEVER put any body part NEAR a feeding WILD animal no matter WHAT. The keeper BROKE THE 1st RULE of an animal keeper - probably because she didn't FEAR Tatiana ENOUGH and thought she could just reach in and retrieve the meat she dropped. They re-did the feeding area with a double gated feeding area (keeper out before cat in) and covered it ALL with small gauge WIRE so no stupid keeper could possibly do the same thing. They did it not for the animal's benefit, but because it stops a keeper from doing something they have been taught NOT TO DO EVER - now they have multiple redundant systems because humans are obviously less trainable than the Tigers.

The Zoo did have people with tranquilizers out there, but they could not get a shot and the police (who did the same thing in Dallas with the Gorilla) always seem to be right there with guns blazing. The Zoo needs a bigger security staff who are better trained and cameras on the exhibits - but since dangerous animals rarely escape - it isn't like the zookeepers/security ever get any real world experience with what to do when an animal gets out.

The cameras will do the MOST good because sadly people do STUPID things at zoos and while the people rarely get killed, the animals almost always do. Humans act like animals and the animals pay the price...funny how that works.

My Opinion

 

[Nova]

The feeder stuck their arm under the cage bars is what I heard. This was a wild animal. They redesigned the feeding area after the incident. The tiger was not considered responsible for the incident.

Can't we all agree that regardless of what the facts in last week's attack turn out to be, the tiger was not at fault?

She was a wild animal being kept in an alien environment (no judgment there from me, just a fact). Of course, she might behave in ways that are different from how she might behave in the wild.

Some of the experts whose speculation gave us the claims that have since been debunked, seemed to be rushing to "defend" the tiger by blaming the victims. As if tigers aren't naturally dangerous and have never hurt anyone who didn't "taunt" them. This is not the case.

I do understand that tiger attacks in zoos are rare and it may turn out, of course, that the victims did something to precipitate the attack. But the "rush to judgment" seems unnecessary and counterproductive to me.

Even if the tiger jumped out and chased the boys because she didn't like their cologne (being facetious), it still isn't the tiger's "fault." She didn't act with malice. She was a tiger. Her death is unfortunate regardless of the precipitating events.

 

[hockeymom]

I have to be honest with you,my dog is about as tame as they come,but if I tried to take meat away from her,I know she would definitley growl and maybe wouldn't bite me,but she might snap at me. Please don't blame the tiger for being a tiger.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Can't we all agree that regardless of what the facts in last week's attack turn out to be, the tiger was not at fault?

She was a wild animal being kept in an alien environment (no judgment there from me, just a fact). Of course, she might behave in ways that are different from how she might behave in the wild.

Some of the experts whose speculation gave us the claims that have since been debunked, seemed to be rushing to "defend" the tiger by blaming the victims. As if tigers aren't naturally dangerous and have never hurt anyone who didn't "taunt" them. This is not the case.

I do understand that tiger attacks in zoos are rare and it may turn out, of course, that the victims did something to precipitate the attack. But the "rush to judgment" seems unnecessary and counterproductive to me.

Even if the tiger jumped out and chased the boys because she didn't like their cologne (being facetious), it still isn't the tiger's "fault." She didn't act with malice. She was a tiger. Her death is unfortunate regardless of the precipitating events.

The tiger is blameless, but still I thought it meaningful, that Tatiana targeted the three boys, even to the point of tracking the two brothers down at the Terrace Cafe. It was said that Tatiana first attacked the older brother just outside the enclosure, I wonder if any of his blood was found there?? We only have the word of the two brothers as to what actually happened, and when it happened. Is their story true??

 

[ember]

I think it's very cool that the visitors to the zoo have been setting up a makeshift memorial for the tiger. Ahhh...enlightenment!
It says alot about how far we've come as humans. It gives me hope for the future of our animals.

 

[Nova]

I have to be honest with you,my dog is about as tame as they come,but if I tried to take meat away from her,I know she would definitley growl and maybe wouldn't bite me,but she might snap at me. Please don't balme the tiger for being a tiger.

My current cat is the most loving, people-oriented cat I've ever had. Almost like a dog. He quite literally does not know how to use his claws as weapons.

Yet he was playing with my partner last week and "accidentally" left Mr. Nova with a bloody arm. No malice, no anger, and Mr. Nova was not taunting the cat.

I can only imagine what a tiger might do, just being a tiger.

 

[mic730]

I think it's very cool that the visitors to the zoo have been setting up a makeshift memorial for the tiger. Ahhh...enlightenment!
It says alot about how far we've come as humans. It gives me hope for the future of our animals.

I think that is cool too!

 

[Buzz Mills]

My current cat is the most loving, people-oriented cat I've ever had. Almost like a dog. He quite literally does not know how to use his claws as weapons.

Yet he was playing with my partner last week and "accidentally" left Mr. Nova with a bloody arm. No malice, no anger, and Mr. Nova was not taunting the cat.

I can only imagine what a tiger might do, just being a tiger.

A cat can rip your arm, or legs, to shreds, in seconds. My cats play with me with retracted claws...............but occasionally they will draw blood despite trying to be careful.

 

[Nova]

The tiger is blameless, but still I thought it meaningful, that Tatiana targeted the three boys, even to the point of tracking the two brothers down at the Terrace Cafe. It was said that Tatiana first attacked the older brother just outside the enclosure, I wonder if any of his blood was found there?? We only have the word of the two brothers as to what actually happened, and when it happened. Is their story true??

I don't know. And they've been threatened (at least by the media) with prosecution for murder, so they have just as much reason to CYA as the zoo director.

I agree the tracking is interesting. But tigers in general travel longer distances than some other large cats, including lions.

(Tigers) are powerful hunters that travel many miles to find prey, such as elk and wild boar, on nocturnal hunts.

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/siberian-tiger.html


So while the "taunting" theory does sound plausible, it may not be the only explanation for why Tatiana focussed on the three humans.

 

[Nova]

A cat can rip your arm, or legs, to shreds, in seconds. My cats play with me with retracted claws...............but occasionally they will draw blood despite trying to be careful.

Exactly. And what is "taunting" to a cat? I used to have a Siamese cat that would intentionally bloody me if I "taunted" her. But she interpreted "taunting" to including things like laughing at a TV program in another room...

 

[hockeymom]

Exactly. And what is "taunting" to a cat? I used to have a Siamese cat that would intentionally bloody me if I "taunted" her. But she interpreted "taunting" to including things like laughing at a TV program in another room...

OMG,you have brought up a scary childhood memory for me. My friend had a Siamese cat,that just loved to taunt me. It would attack me for no reason. One night when I was sleeping over,I woke up feeling like someone was staring at me. I opened my eyes (I was sleeping on my back) and the cat had crawled on my chest and was just staring at me!! Freaked me out. i told my friend I wouldn't sleep there anymore if she let the cat in the bedroom.
I think cats are extremely smart animals,and can read people really well. That cat new i was petrified of it and just did things to get me more scared.

 

[Nova]

OMG,you have brought up a scary childhood memory for me. My friend had a Siamese cat,that just loved to taunt me. It would attack me for no reason. One night when I was sleeping over,I woke up feeling like someone was staring at me. I opened my eyes (I was sleeping on my back) and the cat had crawled on my chest and was just staring at me!! Freaked me out. i told my friend I wouldn't sleep there anymore if she let the cat in the bedroom.
I think cats are extremely smart animals,and can read people really well. That cat new i was petrified of it and just did things to get me more scared.

It wouldn't be surprised. They (all cats, large and small) are amazing animals.

We loved Rosie (the Siamese mix), but I must admit it's nice not to have to warn visitors, "Don't touch the cat! Don't wave your hands around the cat! Don't even look at the cat!"

 

[L L & S]

~~ snipped

Even if the tiger jumped out and chased the boys because she didn't like their cologne (being facetious), it still isn't the tiger's "fault." She didn't act with malice. She was a tiger. Her death is unfortunate regardless of the precipitating events.

ITA. Well said Nova.

 

[L L & S]

It wouldn't be surprised. They (all cats, large and small) are amazing animals.

We loved Rosie (the Siamese mix), but I must admit it's nice not to have to warn visitors, "Don't touch the cat! Don't wave your hands around the cat! Don't even look at the cat!"

We had a Siamese like that. She would play really rough with me, but when my older brother came in the room she would stalk him and wait for him to put a hand on the armrest of the chair and she would pounce on him, draw blood, and run away. Then begin the stalking all over again.

But, the very same cat, would also stalk my 2 year old nephew. She would run up grab him by the diaper with all four claws and hang on until he fell and then she'd let him drag her back up the hall way and then do it again. She never hurt that baby one time. I wish we had had a movie camera back then.

Sorry, I drifted off topic.

Something I wondered about Tatiana. Someone said there was "wear" on her back claws indicating that she may have jumped and clawed her way up and out. Was the wear on her back claws "fresh". Can they even tell that? Were her back claws worn down more than the normal wear and tear she would do in her enclosure?

Would there be markings on the "wall" on the tiger side of the enclosure that showed that she had tried to scale that wall in the recent past?

Just things I've wondered about.

 

[southcitymom]

The feeder stuck their arm under the cage bars is what I heard. This was a wild animal. They redesigned the feeding area after the incident. The tiger was not considered responsible for the incident.

My point is - on the one hand we want to say that a tiger is a tiger and that wild animals are wild and unpredictable and that their attacks can mutilate and kill (which I agree with 100&#37 and on the other hand we want to say "That tiger only did what she did because she was cruelly provoked - it's obvious that something must have made her very very angry to have done this."

These two positions seem, IMHO, a little screwy. Yes - this tiger might have targeted these boys because they violently provoked her or this tiger might have targeted these boys because they were there and the tiger was in a tetchy mood that Christmas day.

That's my only point. I don't blame a tiger for being a tiger, but I'm also not willing to accept whole-cloth that a tiger has human-like feelings and responses. Might a tiger attack because of stupid human error coupled with the fact that it's a tiger - sure. But it also just might attack because it's a tiger and by it's very nature unpredictable.

I am repeating myself and don't know if I'm making any sense. I am surely interested in facts that might prove these boys were throwing things at the tiger. I just haven't seen any such evidence yet.

 

[Pharlap]

The tiger is blameless, but still I thought it meaningful, that Tatiana targeted the three boys, even to the point of tracking the two brothers down at the Terrace Cafe. It was said that Tatiana first attacked the older brother just outside the enclosure, I wonder if any of his blood was found there?? We only have the word of the two brothers as to what actually happened, and when it happened. Is their story true??

The tiger DID nothing wrong but protect it's home and boundies.
What a shame........................................

 

[L L & S]

~snipped

I am repeating myself and don't know if I'm making any sense. I am surely interested in any facts that might prove these boys were throwing things at the tiger. I just haven't seen any such evidence yet.

I think you are.

 

[Lorraining]

This wasn't the young men's fault (no matter what they did) and it wasn't the tiger's fault. It was clearly the fault of the zoo for not having the proper safegauards in place to protect the visitors and the tiger. I simply don't think there is any other way to spin this. The zoo is at fault. They have a lot of explaining to do. JMO