Tiger kills man at San Francisco Zoo (Part 2)

[LinasK]

Buzz, it's never been confirmed by police officials. So much of what has been stated in articles has been proven to be false. We were first told the zoo enclosure was the proper height and up to all standards. That turned out to be false. We were told a shoe was found in the moat. Police tell us that is not true. We were told slingshots were found. Police say NO slingshots were found. That's why I asked if POLICE had confirmed this allegation. Because until it is confirmed that pinecones, sticks and other objects which could not reach the moat through natural means were found, then I'm remaining skeptical.

I'm not saying things weren't found. Just that the reporting on this has been so wrong so often that I can't help but wonder if this is one more falsehood that is being perpetrated.

It wasn't the police who found the slingshots, it was workers at the hospital, that doesn't mean they didn't exist, only that police didn't know of them. Also the police did say that the tree branch in the moat was from another type of tree across the way that couldn't have fallen there naturally, nor the 9 lb. rock!

 

[LinasK]

:blowkiss:

And for the "experts" who've been all over tv lately talking about how tigers shun human contact, and will avoid humans at all costs: me thinks they are forgetting about the maneating tigers in India.

This was not a Bengal tiger, this was a Siberian tiger.

 

[LinasK]

Buzz - I'll try to go find the article, but Souza's family said the brothers did call after they got out of the hospital and the brothers told Souza's family we are so sorry and tried to help save him. This happened the day after Souza's family had complained to the media about not hearing a word from the brothers.

But, the last I heard, the brother's called. The article is in this thread - I will try to find it.

No, it was the Brother's Dhaliwal's cousin who said that they called, when in fact Souza's father never heard from them.

 

[Seeker]

This is from an ABC news excerpt.

Earlier this month at a California animal sanctuary owned by actress Tippi Hedren, a tiger critically injured a 40-year-old worker when it repeatedly bit him.


Also, a tiger attack at an Indian zoo killed a 50-year-old man, after tearing off his left arm as he tried to take a photograph of the animal in its cage.


In November 2006 at Sea World, a killer whale attacked her trainer and pulled him underwater during a show.


But, tiger attacks aren't the only ones to reach the headlines. In 2004 a gorilla attacked a 3-year-old boy at a Dallas zoo, when it escaped from captivity and went on a rampage.

 

[hockeymom]

This is from an ABC news excerpt.

Earlier this month at a California animal sanctuary owned by actress Tippi Hedren, a tiger critically injured a 40-year-old worker when it repeatedly bit him.


Also, a tiger attack at an Indian zoo killed a 50-year-old man, after tearing off his left arm as he tried to take a photograph of the animal in its cage.


In November 2006 at Sea World, a killer whale attacked her trainer and pulled him underwater during a show.


But, tiger attacks aren't the only ones to reach the headlines. In 2004 a gorilla attacked a 3-year-old boy at a Dallas zoo, when it escaped from captivity and went on a rampage.[/QUOTE

Do animals have psychiatric issues like humans? (I'm serious).I know some get depressed,so maybe some have rage problems.Why not? If I were caged up and had people gauking at me for years ,I might flip out too,given the opportunity.

On another note. I would really like to know if these brothers have a history of some sort at the zoo. Do they go there frequently and hang out? I can't imagine why the workers at the cafe wouldn't let them in. Could they have recognized them as pain in the butts from before?

 

[Buzz Mills]

This is from an ABC news excerpt.

Earlier this month at a California animal sanctuary owned by actress Tippi Hedren, a tiger critically injured a 40-year-old worker when it repeatedly bit him.


Also, a tiger attack at an Indian zoo killed a 50-year-old man, after tearing off his left arm as he tried to take a photograph of the animal in its cage.


In November 2006 at Sea World, a killer whale attacked her trainer and pulled him underwater during a show.


But, tiger attacks aren't the only ones to reach the headlines. In 2004 a gorilla attacked a 3-year-old boy at a Dallas zoo, when it escaped from captivity and went on a rampage.[/QUOTE

Do animals have psychiatric issues like humans? (I'm serious).I know some get depressed,so maybe some have rage problems.Why not? If I were caged up and had people gauking at me for years ,I might flip out too,given the opportunity.

On another note. I would really like to know if these brothers have a history of some sort at the zoo. Do they go there frequently and hang out? I can't imagine why the workers at the cafe wouldn't let them in. Could they have recognized them as pain in the butts from before?

The brothers have a history with the San Jose PD; I think the Terrace Cafe may have been closed at 5:00PM, and the workers inside may have been inside cleaning up when the brothers showed up. The Cafe workers probably weren't even zoo employees. This is just my speculation as to what might have happened.

 

[dark_shadows]

I just wanted to add this info.
If a person refuses to give their name, they cannot be booked until they give their name and other booking info. They cannot make any phone calls at all until they are booked.

They cannot call a lawyer or anyone until then.
They also are not allowed visitors, including lawyers until they are booked.

They can only make one collect phone call once they are booked when time allows. After they submit a call list, the numbers are checked to make sure that they are allowed to call those numbers. It can take weeks to get an aproved list back to the person so that they can make calls.



The ones that I encountered in booking that refused to give their names usually gave their name up rather quickly after finding that out. Then we would see prior warrants and convictions. Also many aliases that the person had used.
You have to give your name, you do not have to answer questions about the alleged crime.
There is a "stop and identify" law. It applies in situations where an Officer has reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct but not enough information for probable cause. It is also known as the "Terry" ruling.

Ca has this law also.



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

 

[JBean]

I just wanted to add this info.
If a person refuses to give their name, they cannot be booked until they give their name and other booking info. They cannot make any phone calls at all until they are booked.

They cannot call a lawyer or anyone until then.
They also are not allowed visitors, including lawyers until they are booked.

They can only make one collect phone call once they are booked when time allows. After they submit a call list, the numbers are checked to make sure that they are allowed to call those numbers. It can take weeks to get an aproved list back to the person so that they can make calls.



The ones that I encountered in booking that refused to give their names usually gave their name up rather quickly after finding that out. Then we would see prior warrants and convictions. Also many aliases that the person had used.
You have to give your name, you do not have to answer questions about the alleged crime.
There is a "stop and identify" law. It applies in situations where an Officer has reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct but not enough information for probable cause. It is also known as the "Terry" ruling.

Ca has this law also.



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

Thanks for that info. I don;t think we have the stop and identify law in CA. But I have to go look.

 

[LinasK]

I just wanted to add this info.
If a person refuses to give their name, they cannot be booked until they give their name and other booking info. They cannot make any phone calls at all until they are booked.

They cannot call a lawyer or anyone until then.
They also are not allowed visitors, including lawyers until they are booked.

They can only make one collect phone call once they are booked when time allows. After they submit a call list, the numbers are checked to make sure that they are allowed to call those numbers. It can take weeks to get an aproved list back to the person so that they can make calls.



The ones that I encountered in booking that refused to give their names usually gave their name up rather quickly after finding that out. Then we would see prior warrants and convictions. Also many aliases that the person had used.
You have to give your name, you do not have to answer questions about the alleged crime.
There is a "stop and identify" law. It applies in situations where an Officer has reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct but not enough information for probable cause. It is also known as the "Terry" ruling.

Ca has this law also.



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

However, as JBean pointed out, they weren't being arrested or suspected at that point of being anything but victims of an escaped tiger. That leads me to believe they had things to cover up. Like the vodka bottle, the slingshots, and lying to Souza's father for starters, as well as their history with SJPD. I can't believe they have shown no sympathy whatsoever for their "friend's" family!:razz:

 

[JBean]

States with “stop-and-identify” statutes this is as of 2004 so I don;t know if has changed since then?
There is no federal law requiring that an individual identify himself during a Terry stop. Hiibel merely established that states and localities have the right to pass laws requiring people to identify themselves under those conditions.
As of 2004 (except where noted), the following states had stop-and-identify laws:
AlabamaAla. Code §15-5-30ArizonaAri. Rev. Stat. Tit. 13, Ch. 24-12 (enacted 2005)ArkansasArk. Code Ann. §5-71-213(a)(1)ColoradoColo. Rev. Stat. §16-3-103(1)DelawareDel. Code Ann., Tit. 11, §§1902, 1321(6)FloridaFla. Stat. §856.021(2)GeorgiaGa. Code Ann. §16-11-36(b)IllinoisIll. Comp. Stat., ch. 725, §5/107-14IndianaIndiana Code §34-28-5-3.5KansasKan. Stat. Ann. §22-2402(1)LouisianaLa. Code Crim. Proc. Ann., Art. 215.1(A)MissouriMo. Rev. Stat. §84.710(2)MontanaMont. Code Ann. §46-5-401NebraskaNeb. Rev. Stat. §29-829NevadaNev. Rev. Stat. §171.123New HampshireN. H. Rev. Stat. Ann. §594:2New MexicoN. M. Stat. Ann. §30-22-3New YorkN. Y. Crim. Proc. Law (CPL) §140.50(1)North DakotaN.D. Cent. Code §29-29-21 (PDF)OhioOhio Rev. Code §2921.29 (enacted 2006)Rhode IslandR. I. Gen. Laws §12-7-1UtahUtah Code Ann. §77-7-15VermontVt. Stat. Ann., Tit. 24, §1983WisconsinWis. Stat. §968.24 (PDF)

 

[dingo]

This is from an ABC news excerpt.

Earlier this month at a California animal sanctuary owned by actress Tippi Hedren, a tiger critically injured a 40-year-old worker when it repeatedly bit him.


Also, a tiger attack at an Indian zoo killed a 50-year-old man, after tearing off his left arm as he tried to take a photograph of the animal in its cage.


In November 2006 at Sea World, a killer whale attacked her trainer and pulled him underwater during a show.


But, tiger attacks aren't the only ones to reach the headlines. In 2004 a gorilla attacked a 3-year-old boy at a Dallas zoo, when it escaped from captivity and went on a rampage.

A circus elephant trompled her handler to death here last week.

 

[Pharlap]

A circus elephant trompled her handler to death here last week.

I do remember the others.
Hi dingo!!:angel:
Sorry to hear that.

 

[dark_shadows]

However, as JBean pointed out, they weren't being arrested or suspected at that point of being anything but victims of an escaped tiger. That leads me to believe they had things to cover up. Like the vodka bottle, the slingshots, and lying to Souza's father for starters, as well as their history with SJPD. I can't believe they have shown no sympathy whatsoever for their "friend's" family!:razz:

My dearest LinasK,:blowkiss:
Thank-you very much for your post.

I cannot believe that they had no sympathy for the victim's family either.

Were they charged with loitering because they did not provide their names? Also do you know if they were found under the influence or do we have to wait for tests to come back?

So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

 

[Nova]

ds, I believe the toxicological tests are still pending. If the brothers have been charged with anything, it hasn't been reported.

ds and linus, I don't think we know whether or not the brothers have "sympathy" for the victim's family. We have the father saying they haven't called him, and one may opine that such failure is bad manners. But we don't know how the brothers feel.

Much is being made of the brothers' failure to give their names to police. Does anyone know how long they refused to do so? For all I know, it was a moment of childish spite and they provided their names shortly afterward.

 

[JBean]

ds, I believe the toxicological tests are still pending. If the brothers have been charged with anything, it hasn't been reported.

ds and linus, I don't think we know whether or not the brothers have "sympathy" for the victim's family. We have the father saying they haven't called him, and one may opine that such failure is bad manners. But we don't know how the brothers feel.

Much is being made of the brothers' failure to give their names to police. Does anyone know how long they refused to do so? For all I know, it was a moment of childish spite and they provided their names shortly afterward.

oh you are so damn reasonable it takes the fun out of everything!
Can;t you just be rotten for a change?

 

[dark_shadows]

Thanks for that info. I don;t think we have the stop and identify law in CA. But I have to go look.

My dearest JBean,:blowkiss:
Ok, I found this article that states that Ca has a law similar to the "stop and identify" law in other states. My mistake, I thought that they did have that actual law.

Here is a link stating that.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/21/scotus.police.id/

The list of states can be found at the bottom of the page at the link.

So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

 

[Nova]

oh you are so damn reasonable it takes the fun out of everything!
Can;t you just be rotten for a change?

I have no idea what you mean. :angel:

(Cheer up! It'll probably turn out that folks were right about the brothers all along...)

 

[dark_shadows]

ds, I believe the toxicological tests are still pending. If the brothers have been charged with anything, it hasn't been reported.

ds and linus, I don't think we know whether or not the brothers have "sympathy" for the victim's family. We have the father saying they haven't called him, and one may opine that such failure is bad manners. But we don't know how the brothers feel.

Much is being made of the brothers' failure to give their names to police. Does anyone know how long they refused to do so? For all I know, it was a moment of childish spite and they provided their names shortly afterward.

My dearest Nova,:blowkiss:

I was going on the statement about the father them and asking about his son and the claim of them not knowing where he was. That is why I did not think that they had sympathy.
You have always had a way of getting me to rethink things.
True, we do not know the amount of time that went by when they did not give their names.


So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

 

[Nova]

My dearest Nova,:blowkiss:

I was going on the statement about the father them and asking about his son and the claim of them not knowing where he was. That is why I did not think that they had sympathy.
You have always had a way of getting me to rethink things.
True, we do not know the amount of time that went by when they did not give their names.


So much Love and Respect for you,
dark_shadows

ds, the phone call from Sousa's father to the brothers happened before the attack. I'm not sure, but I think they were covering for their friend, who had blown off Christmas dinner with his family. (Not that that makes it admirable, of course, but at that point, they didn't know the man's son would end up dead.)

 

[JBean]

I have no idea what you mean. :angel:

(Cheer up! It'll probably turn out that folks were right about the brothers all along...)

heehee. I don;t know what to think about these guys. It was funny, John and Ken were discussing it on KFI yesterday. John said, the behavior of these boys after this terrible incident is so strange. They are behaving like I think Scott Peterson would. lol.