Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory

[SnooperDuper]

DM must have thought he was untouchable. "Heaven sent"! I wonder if CN and MS were more heavily into drugs and were thus more willing to participate. It's hard to imagine they were all psychopaths ....

MS had previously been arrested for selling coke, and had a bunch of friends with pics of drugs, money, and piles of phones on their facebook.

 

[SnooperDuper]

HPS presser from Wednesday May 8 at 11:00 AM
Hamilton Police Press Conference - Disappearance of Tim Bosma - YouTube

CBCHamilton ‏@CBCHamilton May 8

We'll carry @JoeyColeman live stream from #HamOnt police presser re: Tim Bosma. Watch here live at 11am http://cbc.sh/UGkWmIm

(0:35) MK: Good Morning. Again I apologize for being late.

This is regarding a missing person, TB.

On April 28, 2013, TB posted his 2007 Dodge Ram pickup truck for sale on two different websites.

On Monday May 6, a male party arranged by telephone to view the truck at Mr. Bosma's residence in Ancaster. At approximately 9:20 pm, Mr. Bosma went for a test drive with two young males in this pickup truck. Mr. Bosma had told his spouse that the males stated that they were from Toronto. Mr. Bosma has not been seen from, or heard from since this time.

Police were notified of Mr. Bosma's disappearance immediately by his spouse, and the Mountain Criminal Investigation Division began an investigation late on May 6. Due to the unusual nature of this disappearance, the Homicide Unit will now take the lead in the investigation as per our policy of the HPS.

Through witnesses, police have developed a description of the two males that Mr. Bosma was last seen with.

Wow, they had witnesses, plural, by 11:30 AM 5/8/2013. Likely SB could have called in to the cell provider and gotten the last numbers that called, without a warrant. Then a production order would have been needed for the burner phone. How long does that take to turn around? Would they have been working with that info on 5/7/2013? HPS admits that they have some data from TB's phone, and they know it was taken towards Brantford. (BTW the burner phone was only used up to 5/6/2013 and was turned off ever since.)

The first male is described as male, white, 6'1"-6'2", 170-180 lbs, he's in his mid twenties, light to medium short brown hair, unshaven, wearing blue jeans, and a long sleeved orange shirt, and running shoes.

The second male is also described as a male, white, approximately 5'9-5'10" tall, small to medium build, early to mid 20's, he was wearing a - sorry, he had dark hair, he was wearing a red hooded sweatshirt, the hood was up over his head.

We know how tall these guys are within an inch. Interesting.

These males were last seen in Mr. Bosma's vehicle described as a 2007 Dodge Ram pickup, black in colour, with Ontario licence plate 726-7ZW.

Police are asking anyone with information regarding Mr. Bosma's location are asked to contact detective Greg Rizoniak of the Homicide unit at 905-546-4863, or to call Crimestoppers with any information.

Thank you. (3:19)

Q: When did you develop that profile or description of the two suspects?

MK: Last night (5/7/2013)

Q: Was it, why was it held back from the media?

MK: It wasn't held back from the media. It was developed last night and this is the first opportunity we've had to release it.

Q: Will you put out photos, or images?

MK: Of?

Q: Of your suspects.

MK: Right now, there is no video evidence.

Well that's evasive.

Q: Will you be making drawings?

MK: Making drawings? Uh...I haven't talked to my ident about that, but that, that is possible, yes.

I think they already have strong leads and they don't need the public's help to ID these guys.

Q: Which two websites was the truck posted on?

MK: Kijiji, and Auto Trader

Q: What about the third male that apparently dropped the other two off? Was there any information about them?

MK: Uh, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It is possible that other people are involved and we know nothing about those people. Right now all we have is this description of these two suspects that attended the residence.

Q: Was there a car on anything there that they might have left, like to get there, because they're from Toronto?

MK: The residence, the spouse did not see any other vehicle.

Q: How many people came to the house?

MK: Two.

Q: Only two?

MK: Yes.

Q: And did she see them?

MK: Yes she did.

Q: What is HPS's policy for getting the Homicide Squad involved?

MK: As I already said in the beginning of this media release, if it's an unusual missing person, then we are to be involved. And this has unusual circumstances right at the onset, so we got involved yesterday, last night.

Q: Any sign yet or information at all concerning the truck?

MK: None at all. It's been flagged at the border, it been put out through all police agencies and of course the media, and hopefully someone locates this vehicle.

Q: Are we to assume the suspects are back in Toronto?

MK: No, we're not. I uh, the information that we had for Mr. Bosma, he relayed to his spouse that they were from the Toronto area, I can't confirm that either way, if they were from there or not.

Q: Have you been able to get into the account to see any email addresses or anything like that?

MK: Unfortunately in this case Mr. Bosma had put his own phone number on the websites, so therefore the people called him directly, and there is no information from the computers to be gained.

That is just hard to believe.

Q: Did he have his phone with him at the time of his disappearance?

MK: Yes he did.

Q: Were you able to trace that or did you get any calls from it?

MK: It's been turned off, but yes we have some data from it.

Q: What kind of searches will you be carrying out?

MK: Well last night as well as all yesterday and today and we expect tomorrow, if nothing's found, we have a ground search that includes out K9 Unit, and it includes the OPP officers, includes our search and rescue team, and it's up to the search coordinator but there are other resources that are available to him, such as an OPP plane.

Q: Where is this happening?

MK: This is in the Ancaster to Brantford area.

Q: How can the public help?

MK: Just contact detective Rizoniak or Crimestoppers, with any information at all about the description of these two male parties, or anything if they see Mr. Bosma's truck. I realize that this is a very common vehicle, and the only difference is that this is a very large vehicle, it's a 3500, which is a work vehicle, and it's also a Diesel truck, so, any information they can provide.

Q: Did Bosma tell his wife where they were heading for the drive? I mean like down the street, anything like that?

MK: I don't believe Mr. Bosma knew. It was just for a test drive and they were going out.

Q: What time was the cell phone turned off, do you know?

MK: Uh, I'm not going to say that.

GS: We have time for just a couple more questions, then uh...

MK: But it was turned off.

Q: So is this a missing persons case or a murder investigation?

MK: This is a missing persons rep...investigation, with unusual circumstances. I think I've already speck, spoke that.

MK really got tongue-tied getting this out so perhaps he's already convinced of a murder.

Q: We're learning the last two, well the two websites, because they are so vastly used by many people, should the public be looking for certain things that might pop up again, on these two websites?

MK: Oh definitely, the description of these males, if a male calls them to see their pickup, obviously these males and the evidence we have so far, they were targeting a certain type of vehicle, and it was a Dodge Ram 3500, so if they have that type of vehicle for sale, they are to beware. And, use more common sense, as far as you know to give these people your home address, possibly meet them somewhere in the middle of the day, and not in a rural location. Just for their own safety.

There you have it, on 5/8/2013 at 11:00 AM they knew that DM and MS had test driven a similar vehicle, which means that they had already spoken to the RBEG, and therefore knew about the tattoo. LE did not reveal that they had spoken to the RBEG until the press conference on 5/10/2013 at 11:30.

Q: So this truck you think is the target and not Bosma specifically?

MK: That's correct. Thank you.

 

[Juballee]

Answers bolded above. MOO

I don't know where the border crossing comes into it, but I don't think that one can so easily transfer a VIN from a diesel to gas truck without it being hinky and noticeable when looked up by the cops, and then that would still leave them with a set of vins for the red ram.

I re-watched the PR from May 10th again a few days ago, and I believe LE said that the phone was not used again after the night TB disappeared, so I would assume that was when it was destroyed or discarded or whatever.

I agree with you in that I think that it doesn't matter what size a person is if a weapon like a gun is used.

When it comes to stolen vehicles in the hanger, I am still of the opinion that it is more logical that if DM had been aware of any stolen vehicles in the hanger, they would have been moved along with TB's truck. Because if they felt that the hanger was safe enough for some stolen vehicles, why wouldn't it be safe enough to keep TB's truck there? Why risk a lengthy road trip when the hanger was fine for other stolen vehicles, unless they were unaware of the other stolen vehicle(s) being there?

And I have a feeling that when they say that the trailer the Harley was in was registered to another name, if it was DM or MS, they would have been charged in the theft as well when new charges were added last week, would they not? Is there any way to find out if anyone has been charged with the stolen Harley yet, and if so, who? And if not, why not?

 

[SnooperDuper]

On 5/11/2013, when DM's arrest is announced, TB's brother in law (who happens to be LE) has this to say:

Bosma's brother-in-law, Chris Noordam, added the family only found out about the arrest through the media. The police are cautious of what information they share, he said, but the family is understanding.

"They don't want to jeopardize anything. You tell us too much and all of a sudden we get excited and we tell the wrong people," said Noordam, who is married to Bosma's sister.

"We know they have more information but they're withholding that for life and death. If they release too much right now, that could be the end of Tim."

A police officer himself with Sarnia Police Services, Noordam had some strong words for those involved in Bosma's disappearance.

"Turn yourself in," he said. "We know who you are. We know where you are. We will find you. There's no hope for you."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/toronto-man-arrested-in-tim-bosma-disappearance-1.1323652

 

[SnooperDuper]

And I have a feeling that when they say that the trailer the Harley was in was registered to another name, if it was DM or MS, they would have been charged in the theft as well when new charges were added last week, would they not? Is there any way to find out if anyone has been charged with the stolen Harley yet, and if so, who? And if not, why not?

<rsbm>

Well let me put it this way, I think MS's graffiti charge is going to be dropped. Why would LE even bother to prosecute that at this point? Which is to say, DM and MS are not going to face a charge for every single misdeed they have ever done. LE will concentrate on prosecuting the first degree murder charges.

Plus, every time LE lays a charge they have to reveal how they came to that conclusion. LE does not want to have to reveal any evidence they have on the major charges just so they can deny, e.g., CN bail for being the driver. That's why CN is facing an equally serious charge, but one that dates after the murder that they want to get MS and DM for...LE doesn't want to have to present what they know about the murder before they are ready.

I think LE figured out who they were looking for almost immediately due to the the burner phone, RBEG, the tattoo, and the TPS traffic stop of DM that noted that tattoo. I think they were on to DM as of 5/7/2013, the day after TB disappeared. LE just didn't tell the public about it because the public includes DM, MS, CN and all of their friends.

On May 22 in the Spec Kavanagh told the reporter,
---
Investigators have not identified the two suspects they are looking for in connection to Tim Bosma's murder, says the detective in charge of the case.

Yet Detective Sergeant Matt Kavanagh of the Hamilton police homicide unit told The Spectator he does not believe the public is in any danger.

"You'll just have to trust me on this," he said when asked to explain.
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2882383-clairmont-police-have-yet-to-id-two-other-suspects-in-bosma-murder-says-lead-detective/
---
Of course MS was arrested later on the same day and CN is not a threat to anyone the way MS and DM are.

 

[Woodland]

Whoa - this is moving faster than a grass fire. Had to put my spackle and paint down to keep up - consider my thanks applied to the many posts in the last couple of hours - all are very good. I see a 180 of note.

All of the recent posts have pointed me to share something which I would not do under normal circumstances. I no longer think that junk metal was found in the hangar at the time of DM's arrest (sorry to the car enthusiasts).

In the last couple of years, Hamilton LE have broken the back of a few car theft rings. These rings seem to have had a large payoff.

A few years ago my sister and her husband had a modified vehicle stolen from their driveway just outside the Hamilton area - they are part of a racing circuit. They stupidly agreed to pay (and did pay) $2000 to get their vehicle back - without calling LE!
Imagine my discontent when she told me this hours after the fact.
They started out by calling the person that modified the vehicle for copies of receipts on the work done for insurance purposes - well didn't he 'happen to know someone' that could probably get their vehicle back.
She withdrew $2k, left it somewhere and went to the meeting place - a local mall. As the stolen vehicle was being driven there - LE pulled it over - because it was reported stolen! Not a bright bunch here - all of them.
Long story short - the guy that 'knew someone' went down to the local LE station and manged to retrieve the kids driving the stolen vehicle! Sad to report, my sister still didn't get this part as unusual as she was relating it to me. Even more sad, she has a government job.
Anyway, I reported this to Crime Stoppers. I can only hope it had some bearing on the arrests months or years later. Have no idea if the dude modifying cars and retrieving wayward teens was nailed or not.

So now thinking DM was in fact making good money with a high turnover of stolen vehicles, parts etc - he should not have had more than 10 stolen vehicles in the hangar if he was doing it right. Including made to order shipments overseas - another story on identity theft.

Bottom line, imo, there was no bleed on finances regarding the hangar in Breslau (Kitchener-Waterloo) or Toronto and was likely assisting the purchase of property.

Did they just get cocky? Did they add an aspect to the theft (short film)? No idea but can't wait for a trial or elocution on a guilty plea.

All jmo.

 

[Kamille]

I don't know where the border crossing comes into it, but I don't think that one can so easily transfer a VIN from a diesel to gas truck without it being hinky and noticeable when looked up by the cops, and then that would still leave them with a set of vins for the red ram.

It was my understanding that DM was planning to attend the Baja, Mexico Jeep Race later in May of that year. He would have had to drive his trailer across two borders to do so.

I re-watched the PR from May 10th again a few days ago, and I believe LE said that the phone was not used again after the night TB disappeared, so I would assume that was when it was destroyed or discarded or whatever.

Thank you. So it is not possible that LE were tracking him with this phone in the days after the murder then.

I agree with you in that I think that it doesn't matter what size a person is if a weapon like a gun is used.

When it comes to stolen vehicles in the hanger, I am still of the opinion that it is more logical that if DM had been aware of any stolen vehicles in the hanger, they would have been moved along with TB's truck. Because if they felt that the hanger was safe enough for some stolen vehicles, why wouldn't it be safe enough to keep TB's truck there? Why risk a lengthy road trip when the hanger was fine for other stolen vehicles, unless they were unaware of the other stolen vehicle(s) being there?

Personally I think it is more logical to believe that DM was well aware of where every vehicle in his hangar came from. Did MS even own a vehicle of his own? I thought he was caught fleeing his home on foot. Was he part of the group who "worked for" DM at the hangar? Did he participate at all in the car rebuilding? Was he on the Baja trip the year before? Was it him who wanted the truck? If not, why would DM take him on both test drives and not his "mechanic" SS? SS called DM his "boss" and said he was employed there. To do what? I'd think if I was employing a mechanic, that's who I would want to be involved in the purchase of a used one. Perhaps his "car buddies" weren't the type who would help him steal one and murder the owner if need be?

And I have a feeling that when they say that the trailer the Harley was in was registered to another name, if it was DM or MS, they would have been charged in the theft as well when new charges were added last week, would they not? Is there any way to find out if anyone has been charged with the stolen Harley yet, and if so, who? And if not, why not?

Not sure if Hamilton LE are finished trying to figure out the vehicle situation in that hangar. Again it would require working with LE from other jurisdictions to figure out what is stolen and from where. And then, as you stated, by whom. I wonder if LE were able to get anything from the video that the Harley owner supplied to them of when the bike was stolen to narrow down who was driving the vehicle that towed it away? At this point in time I don't believe DM or MS has even been charged with stealing TB's truck?

MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Not sure if Hamilton LE are finished trying to figure out the vehicle situation in that hangar. Again it would require working with LE from other jurisdictions to figure out what is stolen and from where. And then, as you stated, by whom. I wonder if LE were able to get anything from the video that the Harley owner supplied to them of when the bike was stolen to narrow down who was driving the vehicle that towed it away? At this point in time I don't believe DM or MS has even been charged with stealing TB's truck?

MOO

DM has also been charged with theft of TB's truck.

Millard is also charged with forcible confinement and theft of a vehicle in Bosma's death.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/04/10/tim-bosma-dellen-millard_n_5127513.html

 

[Alethea Dice]

Plus, every time LE lays a charge they have to reveal how they came to that conclusion. LE does not want to have to reveal any evidence they have on the major charges just so they can deny, e.g., CN bail for being the driver. That's why CN is facing an equally serious charge, but one that dates after the murder that they want to get MS and DM for...LE doesn't want to have to present what they know about the murder before they are ready.

<rsbm>

The Crown is saying they will likely oppose bail for CN. If they do, regardless of when her charge is dated, they will have to present what they know about the murder. Not to the public, because bail hearings are generally under a publication ban, but they will to the Court.

The court heard she will be kept in custody pending a bail application, which the Crown will likely oppose, says deputy Crown attorney Tony Leitch, who is prosecuting Tim's case. Her next appearance will be by video on May 5.

Noudga, who has no criminal record, will apply for bail. And to run her bail hearing — which will presumably take place months, if not years, before Smich and Millard's trials — the Crown will have to lay out the entire murder case against them.

"When somebody's charged with accessory after the fact to murder, you have to prove there was a murder," says Leitch.

While bail hearings are generally subject to publication bans, Leitch is still put in the position of tipping his hand to the defence about his evidence and, perhaps, strategy in the murder case, in order to properly conduct Noudga's bail hearing.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4462499-christina-noudga-in-hamilton-court/

Noudga remains in custody, and is due to appear in court again on May 5. Crown attorney Anthony Leitch told CBC News that Noudga’s bail hearing has to be handled in Superior Court because of the seriousness of the offence.

“Only a handful of offences are handled this way,” he said. The prosecution will be requesting the court deny her bail, he added.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/christina-noudga-court-appearance-brings-tim-bosma-s-wife-to-tears-1.2606566

 

[Alethea Dice]

... unless, DM had already successfully taken stolen vehicles across the borders. Do we know that the vehicles he acquired in Mexico or the US were legal transactions? DM was bold in his criminal activity, so I doubt that fears of a border vehicle check would slow him down.

The Camaro that came from Texas was purchased by the employee, not by DM. I assume DM just picked it up and brought it to the border (maybe on his way back from Reno?). The buyer then went to the border to file the paperwork and picked the car up there. He has posts on one of the car forums stating this.

What other vehicles did he acquire in Mexico and/or the US?

JMO

 

[hopingforjustice]

It is beyond comprehension why someone with the money to buy trucks and condos would steal one, and why if they felt that they had to steal one, that a car-jacking would be the easiest way, that is so illogical that it really lends itself to thinking that perhaps the simplest, most logical solution is what really happened, which would be that they were test driving trucks to actually buy when something went completely wrong. They made a bumbling effort to cover their tracks, which again, anyone with a 5th grade education and the tools that they had on hand could have planned much better, which suggests logically that there was no forethought to this crime, just scrambled afterthought.

I am just wondering why you feel there was just so much money to be had. Do you have something you can post to reflect this position?
I could be wrong, but I have yet to see any reports or quotes that state that. If anything, the only post I have seen seems to state the opposite.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it/

When the pair met up at a steakhouse near Toronto’s Pearson Airport, things were more relaxed. Then Dellen began asking Mr. Sharif about the value of the company and why his 71-year-old father, Wayne Millard, should continue to fund a venture whose costs already far exceeded the original estimates. “He advised [me] that the family coffers were running low and that he was very apprehensive to keep pouring money into the facility,” Mr. Sharif recounted in an email. “I went over all of the contracts that were in negotiations and the potential for 2013. We parted pleasantly.”

I personally do not feel that we can assume that the family or the business is/was as affluent as it should be on paper, especially just knowing what we do know about the expense to build the new hangar and the lack of income coming from it . There were mortgage payments (and probably other spending we no nothing about) to be made. Those payments had to come from the coffers and unless they know a secret that I don't about quadrupling your money fast, at some point it has to have hit a critical point. The spending habits of DM do not in any way mean that they money was there to be spent willy nilly. It simply means that the lad didn't know how to live within their means. The liquidations that have been going on, are happening for a reason.
But this is just My Opinion


CN could have done something as simple as called the burner phone on the 9th, and then lied to LE about it when they questioned all of the people who came up on the phone's production order. I really don't think the world is that much safer with her behind bars, and I certainly think calling for the death penalty for her is a tad over zealous.

All my opinion only.

I don't believe for a minute that it was something that simple. That in itself could never stand up in court for an Accessory Charge. She is more involved than that! but just MO

While I agree that we are entitled to our own opinions and that is the value of this board, I have a hard time believing that you would feel the same about her if you had been that family sitting at home for a week wondering and searching and praying and hoping, only to find out nearly a year later that a young girl of 21 who has carried on with her life, going to university to better herself, knew all along what had happened to destroy a family. And that is just for TB. Imagine the 2 years that LB's family and friends have been through.

Sorry, I am bitter about her. She should have come forward..plain and simple. What she is accused of doing makes her every bit as guilty as those who actually did the crime.

Rant over..JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I am just wondering why you feel there was just so much money to be had. Do you have something you can post to reflect this position?
I could be wrong, but I have yet to see any reports or quotes that state that. If anything, the only post I have seen seems to state the opposite.

Check out the properties and ownership thread. DM still had millions, and the MRO was so newly finished it wasn't even given a chance to fail.

 

[swedie]

Sometimes I believe LE will arrest someone and get them on some charge, hoping they will spill their guts and give them more details. What really stumps me is the the May 9th date, why not May 6th or 7th? What could have happened May 9th, to get her on accessory after the fact, helping DM escape? Did they show up at her home looking for DM, he was there and she lied to them? Were they casing her house and saw him eventually leave the next day, the 10th, followed him for those four hours, finally arresting him? I recall the article which stated; Four days after Mr. Bosma&#8217;s disappearance, police tailed Mr. Millard for at least four hours before arresting him and later charging him with forcible confinement, theft over $5,000 and, eventually, first-degree murder.

Also from that article: Did this friend start asking CN a lot of questions and she opened up to her and suggested she get herself a lawyer?

One friend of Mr. Millard&#8217;s girlfriend shared the impression of him as a modest man who acted neither spoiled nor particularly well-off. &#8220;He&#8217;s a soft-spoken sort of a guy,&#8221; said the friend, who cannot be named due to a publication ban. &#8220;I didn&#8217;t even know he had money. He never acted like it.&#8221;

Though the two never became close, the friend said Mr. Millard seemed to treat his girlfriend well, taking her on skydiving trips and tropical vacations.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...arged-with-killing-tim-bosma/article12009016/

 

[swedie]

Check out the properties and ownership thread. DM still had millions, and the MRO was so newly finished it wasn't even given a chance to fail.

But don't some believe it failed right from the onslaught? There was no hope in heck and WM was being taken advantage of by a few certain? :facepalm: JMO.

 

[swedie]

I don't know where the border crossing comes into it, but I don't think that one can so easily transfer a VIN from a diesel to gas truck without it being hinky and noticeable when looked up by the cops, and then that would still leave them with a set of vins for the red ram.

I re-watched the PR from May 10th again a few days ago, and I believe LE said that the phone was not used again after the night TB disappeared, so I would assume that was when it was destroyed or discarded or whatever.

I agree with you in that I think that it doesn't matter what size a person is if a weapon like a gun is used.

When it comes to stolen vehicles in the hanger, I am still of the opinion that it is more logical that if DM had been aware of any stolen vehicles in the hanger, they would have been moved along with TB's truck. Because if they felt that the hanger was safe enough for some stolen vehicles, why wouldn't it be safe enough to keep TB's truck there? Why risk a lengthy road trip when the hanger was fine for other stolen vehicles, unless they were unaware of the other stolen vehicle(s) being there?

And I have a feeling that when they say that the trailer the Harley was in was registered to another name, if it was DM or MS, they would have been charged in the theft as well when new charges were added last week, would they not? Is there any way to find out if anyone has been charged with the stolen Harley yet, and if so, who? And if not, why not?

Also from Juballee's post #452
They made a bumbling effort to cover their tracks, which again, anyone with a 5th grade education and the tools that they had on hand could have planned much better, which suggests logically that there was no forethought to this crime, just scrambled afterthought.

The border crossing comes in if in fact they had wanted Tim's truck to tow the trailer with the Jeep inside for Baha racing. They would need to cross two borders with a stolen vehicle. Personally I don't think they would risk it in this day and age with all the added securities in place due to 911, missing posters hanging at all border crossings advertising we still a missing man and his Dodge Ram out there somewhere. To me that would be too brazen. DM and MS screwed up so much by leaving evidence to be found, but it wasn't so obvious, in LE's face so to speak. And DM wasn't mechanically inclined from what we've been told by at least one source, something tells me MS more than likely isn't either and I get the impression DM's mechanic has come clean with LE and wasn't involved in or had knowledge of a chop shop, so how do we figure an engine was going to be swapped out, if it was at all possible?

Referencing your third paragraph and the copy and paste from your post 452. If a gun was used in Tim's case, to me that shows forethought/premeditation. Why carry a gun unless you have criminal intentions in mind? With the recent gun charges of three men tied to DM, plus the knowledge of the method in which WM's life came to an abrupt end, it seems at least IMO it's pretty obvious how Tim's life came to an end. Not to mention the article which stated the seats had been removed. I believe their method of murder was by gun, quick and simple with not much of a struggle, if at all.

Details are slowly being released as a police source told CBC News that investigators believe Bosma was killed inside his truck, during a struggle as part of an attempted hijacking.

That same source said Bosma’s truck was found with seats missing.

http://www.680news.com/2013/05/18/u...lysis-of-two-locations-in-the-tim-bosma-case/

How were DM and MS to remove a number of stolen vehicles from the hangar in such a short amount of time, when the heat was on, and most importantly, where were they to put them? The main focus and obvious was on a black Dodge Ram. If LE had showed up at the hangar, I'm sure they would have been quite satisfied to take a look inside the hangar and see there was no black Dodge Ram there and been off. I don't think they would have started checking VIN numbers on vehicles unless it was obvious there was a chop shop going on. They may have questioned DM about the vehicles and he probably would have said that they had belonged to his father, grandfather and himself and that may have satisfied LE for the time being. DM really didn't have much of a choice when it came to getting rid of possible stolen vehicles in the course of a few days kwim. It may have raised more suspicion by employees of businesses surrounding the hangar had he attempted to move a bunch of vehicles all at once, just a MB's neighbours became curious/aware to unusual movement in their neighbourhood.

Regarding your last paragraph, murder now takes president over stolen goods. The sentence for theft is peanuts compared to murder. That's not to say that by the time this case goes to trial (unless there's a change in plea), more charges could be filed against all of the accused. And it doesn't have to become public knowledge until the judge says so. Thinking back to the RW's case, he ended up with 88 charges by the time they were done. He will never be a free man and DM and MS could end up in the same boat. Of course this is all JMO.

The decorated former commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton, in eastern Ontario, pleaded guilty to all 88 charges against him — including two counts of first-degree murder, two counts each of sexual assault and forcible confinement and 82 break-ins and attempted break-ins.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/col-russell-williams-pleads-guilty-to-all-88-charges-1.872289

If Dellen Millard, the man charged with murder in three separate deaths across Southwestern Ontario, were convicted of all three, would it be true a serial killer had been at work?

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...es_dont_necessarily_mean_a_serial_killer.html

 

[MsSherlock]

Check out the properties and ownership thread. DM still had millions, and the MRO was so newly finished it wasn't even given a chance to fail.

Yes Snooper, and IMO, one would have to assume that all of the money was tied up in real estate, which may or may not be true. There may have been assets in another corporation(s) we don't know about or in personal stocks and bonds etc that we don't have access to. IMO

Yes, DM's statement to AS in November/13 was that the "family coffers were running low", but that would be open to interpretation. What would be low to non-millionaires may not be the same to those with 7 figure statements.

BUT, he may also have said this to AS to set up WM's pending "suicide". If AS believed that WM was under financial pressure, he of all people would understand WM dying from a blood pressure related "aneurysm" or "suicide". IMO we really won't know how much money WM had unless a forensic accountant hits the stand for the crown in WM's murder. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

But don't some believe it failed right from the onslaught? There was no hope in heck and WM was being taken advantage of by a few certain? :facepalm: JMO.

I tried to argue that in the properties thread, Kamille did (an awesome job of) a lot of counter-checking, and I don't think you can legitimately say that there was any problem with the MRO or the plan for the MRO.

I tried to argue that DM was down to his last pennies and nope, he still had millions PLUS the money we don't know about (because I'm sure that there is more than just the real estate holdings).

I tried to argue that there was a bad economic climate and they would not get clients, but the MRO was well researched, the economy was on the upswing, and the business development manager had a bunch of leads.

It seems WM invested his money in creating a life long job for DM, while WM lived an idle life and did not work himself.

I think DM resented the fact that WM spent so much money to create a situation where DM had to show up to work every day.

Pretty well, DM is allergic to work.

When you look at all the other possibilities, and look for a valid reason why any concerned person might shut down that MRO, well, there aren't any.

Yes Snooper, and IMO, one would have to assume that all of the money was tied up in real estate, which may or may not be true. There may have been assets in another corporation(s) we don't know about or in personal stocks and bonds etc that we don't have access to. IMO

Yes, DM's statement to AS in November/13 was that the "family coffers were running low", but that would be open to interpretation. What would be low to non-millionaires may not be the same to those with 7 figure statements.

BUT, he may also have said this to AS to set up WM's pending "suicide". If AS believed that WM was under financial pressure, he of all people would understand WM dying from a blood pressure related "aneurysm" or "suicide". IMO we really won't know how much money WM had unless a forensic accountant hits the stand for the crown in WM's murder. MOO

At the time that the family coffers were running low, outside of the hangar, WM and DM had $7M+ in investments...that we know about.

After WM was dead DM would have experienced an even worse cash flow situation, as after a death banks, etc. would freeze some accounts related to the deceased. DM STILL had tens of thousands to spend on the stuff that was recently on kijiji like the green snap on tool chest that was bought for $10k in January. 6 months after the murder of WM, DM had enough cash to buy another condo.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Check out the properties and ownership thread. DM still had millions, and the MRO was so newly finished it wasn't even given a chance to fail.

Just jumping off your post. I think another thing to consider is that many, if not most, business owners keep their business and personal holdings separate from each other so that they don't experience personal financial ruin if the business fails. Just because the business coffers were running low due to the hangar going over budget, doesn't necessarily mean that the personal finances were gone. Hence why one could personally buy a condo with cash, while the business was heavily in debt.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I tried to argue that in the properties thread, Kamille did (an awesome job of) a lot of counter-checking, and I don't think you can legitimately say that there was any problem with the MRO or the plan for the MRO.

I tried to argue that DM was down to his last pennies and nope, he still had millions PLUS the money we don't know about (because I'm sure that there is more than just the real estate holdings).

I tried to argue that there was a bad economic climate and they would not get clients, but the MRO was well researched, the economy was on the upswing, and the business development manager had a bunch of leads.

It seems WM invested his money in creating a life long job for DM, while WM lived an idle life and did not work himself.

I think DM resented the fact that WM spent so much money to create a situation where DM had to show up to work every day.

Pretty well, DM is allergic to work.

When you look at all the other possibilities, and look for a valid reason why any concerned person might shut down that MRO, well, there aren't any.



At the time that the family coffers were running low, outside of the hangar, WM and DM had $7M+ in investments...that we know about.

After WM was dead DM would have experienced an even worse cash flow situation, as after a death banks, etc. would freeze some accounts related to the deceased. DM STILL had tens of thousands to spend on the stuff that was recently on kijiji like the green snap on tool chest that was bought for $10k in January. 6 months after the murder of WM, DM had enough cash to buy another condo.

I was one of those who felt the MRO was doomed from the start. Premier was opening in Windsor at the same time and in a time period when much of the MRO business had moved to Asia. And the latest reports I've heard is that Premier is also basically sitting there empty.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/05/30/premier-aviation-committed-to-windsor-despite-recent-lack-of-activity/

When a business like that is ready for it's grand opening and there are still no clients signed up, it doesn't look very promising.

Could there have been a hope for them in the future? Maybe, if the finances held up to carry the business through the years until that happened.

http://www.aviationbusiness.com.au/news/are-asian-mros-losing-their-grip-on-offshore-business

I'm curious why you think DM would have to show up for work every day. They had some pretty qualified people on the payroll, people that I would think they would trust to keep things running smoothly. No need for him to put in an 8 hour shift every day to watch the others work. My boss never has to show up if he doesn't want to, and the money will still keep coming in for him.

I often wonder what would be different if WM had started a business that DM actually had an interest in, like say something to do with helicopters instead of aircraft maintenance.

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I was one of those who felt the MRO was doomed from the start. Premier was opening in Windsor at the same time and in a time period when much of the MRO business had moved to Asia. And the latest reports I've heard is that Premier is also basically sitting there empty.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/05/30/premier-aviation-committed-to-windsor-despite-recent-lack-of-activity/

When a business like that is ready for it's grand opening and there are still no clients signed up, it doesn't look very promising.

Could there have been a hope for them in the future? Maybe, if the finances held up to carry the business through the years until that happened.

http://www.aviationbusiness.com.au/news/are-asian-mros-losing-their-grip-on-offshore-business

I'm curious why you think DM would have to show up for work every day. They had some pretty qualified people on the payroll, people that I would think they would trust to keep things running smoothly. No need for him to put in an 8 hour shift every day to watch the others work. My boss never has to show up if he doesn't want to, and the money will still keep coming in for him.

I often wonder what would be different if WM had started a business that DM actually had an interest in, like say something to do with helicopters instead of aircraft maintenance.

JMO

Excellent points.

I think AS is a good sales guy, he sold me on the MRO too. I was aware of 4 MRO's closing in 2012 and the Windsor MRO being built then...but with all the other economic indicators, and AS's confidence, I started to feel, how could the MRO fail, if it were just given enough time?

I think someone needs to re-interview AS and put him on the hot seat.

Up to Feb 2012, I guess, when they finished the hangar, DM would have to have been in every day to deal with change orders and that sort of thing.

Once the hangar was built though...no, it doesn't make sense that a high school dropout with equivalency would be directing a bunch of professionals on a day to day basis. DM would be just an investor.

It seems DM preferred to invest in residential real estate though.