Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #1,041
Who said lawyers were smart or know anything about the an area of law they never practiced?

Major foot in mouth yet likely so unaware she put her foot in her mouth. Doesn't know what she doesn't know or that at least she shouldn't be saying it out loud.

Obviously this is what someone told her in AG 101 in the last 3 weeks (supporting the idea that unbalanced predispositions do result from these isolated decisions) and she so thoughtlessly assumed it ought to be repeatable. Pity this place.

I wonder, was there an extension on the decision given the new position or did she make an important decision like this during her first 4 days on the job?
 
  • #1,042
How would one charge Suspect #3? All they did was drive the Yukon that DM and MS arrived in, away from TB's house. To charge #3 with murder, you would have to prove either (A) #3 helped steal a truck, and #3 knew that a murder was likely to happen in the course of this, OR (B) #3 knew beforehand that murder was the plan.

However it's reasonable to believe that #3 might have thought that DM and MS would push TB out of the truck and take off with it, without killing him.

(Because it's reasonable to believe that #3 knew a truck would be stolen...why else would they take the Yukon away from the point where normally they would meet up with DM and MS again? And hide the Yukon so that it was not seen in the first place?)

So CN could be #3, and could be not facing charges for murder, because it is quite reasonable to assume that she/#3 did not know or expect that murder would occur. Perhaps that is the honest truth: it was a robbery/theft, but there was a struggle in the truck (as MSM reported) and the upshot was that TB was shot.

ETA: the accessory after the fact charge that CN faces now also holds a threat of life imprisonment, so it is likely the best charge for LE to pursue in face of the evidence.

Since the driver obviously knew that something was going to happen, surely there is still some kind of accessory charge that would apply. Maybe not to the murder, but to even the theft part of the crime.

When things went off plan and TB was killed, there was a delay coming in to Brantford. The trio should have arrived in downtown Brantford sooner than they did, if they had just continued on to the hangar. Instead there was a delay of about 1/2 hour while the trio figured out what to do. Perhaps it took time for TB to die. Original plan: steal a truck, dump its (live) owner and head for the hangar to stash it. This is why DM did not hide his tattoos when he approached TB's home: I have the impression that not a lot of LE effort goes into the investigation of vehicle thefts, in part because people have insurance to resolve the situation for them. DM did not expect LE to look too hard for this stolen truck, because usually that's the way it goes.

However things escalated from a theft to a murder. And there was a new plan: head to the farm where the incinerator had already proved its worth in getting rid of LB. They get in their vehicles and carry on. Oops, someone forgot to turn off TB's phone. They do that and toss the phone and carry on. They're kinda making things up as they go. They didn't plan to have to cover up a murder. All they wanted to do was steal a truck that was covered by insurance and of little interest to LE.

DM had not planned to attract a whole lotta heat. He was just going to steal a truck, and no one cares about a truck. If he had set out to plan a murder, he would have been much more rigorous about electronic devices (TB's at the very least, as well as possibly his, MS's and CN's smartphones) than he was. No I take that back: electronic devices had not led LE to DM in the LB case. Perhaps, based on experience, DM didn't have a lot of fear of being tracked electronically? Perhaps, based on experience, he felt that the burner phone was more than enough protection to hide his identity. That might be true in a truck theft, but not a murder.

In SB's original description, she indicated that DM was wearing a long sleeved orange shirt. There was nothing in her description about tattoos. It was the other test drive guy who added the tattoos to the description. Here is the original description as reported:

Bosma’s wife saw the two men when they arrived at the house, police said.
The first is described as roughly 6 foot, one inch and 170-180 pounds. He had medium short brown hair. He was wearing blue jeans and a long-sleeved orange shirt with running shoes.
The second is around five foot, nine inches with a small to medium build. He had dark hair and had a red hooded sweatshirt pulled over his head. Both were white, and looked to be in their mid 20s.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/05/08/homicide_investigating_disappearance_of_timothy_bosma_after_meeting_potential_buyers_of_his_truck.html#

If the original intent was only to steal a truck, it doesn't surprise me that it would take a half hour for whatever happened to happen.

Now back to the direct indictment issue. A preliminary hearing is a good dry run for all of your witnesses in a trial. You want to see how they will handle being on the stand. You want to see their weaknesses before trial, you want them to present in the best possible light, etc. People who have never been in court before and are called to testify as witnesses really benefit from having the practice afforded during a preliminary hearing so they can calm their nerves, understand how they might be challenged in court, and perform at their best for the real trial.

But what if the evidence is mostly forensic? What if they have tracked DM/MS/CN's smartphone (not the burner phone) from Etobicoke, to Hamilton, through Brantford, up to Ayr, and so on? What if DM and MS's DNA are in the truck along with the evidence that TB was murdered inside the truck (blood spray from gun shot?) Forensic experts are on the stand all the time. They know the drill. They are expert witnesses not only because of their field of knowledge but because they are witnesses by profession. They do not benefit at all from the dry run known as the preliminary hearing. It's just a burden and a waste of time and effort to them. You can see how it would make sense to dispense of the preliminary hearing if there is nothing to be gained from it for your witnesses...and that suggests that the evidence that links DM to TB's death is forensic in nature (and not the he said she said that would involve an endless stream of friends and associates, the kind of first timers that need practice).

If there is a mass of forensic evidence linking DM to TB, that's why there is a strong likelihood of conviction, and in turn, no preliminary hearing.

Yes, if most of the evidence is forensic, those witnesses would not need to testify at a preliminary hearing and I can see they might perhaps request the direct indictment. However, I don't believe all witness are called at a preliminary hearing and even forensic experts can have differing opinions on the results.

Now what if DM, like CN/#3, did not expect murder to occur? What if MS pulled the trigger? Well it doesn't really matter here. Because DM was involved in the theft of the truck, and the murder occurred during the course of that theft, DM is still on the hook for murder. If they used a deadly weapon like a gun...well guns don't give out love taps and kisses. Guns kill. The type of weapon is important. And who bought that gun? MS can't even afford the rent. LE has tied one gun purchase at the very least to DM. If MS fired DM's gun, well that just doesn't go in his favour.

MS should be able to afford the rent. He never pays any. ;) JK

In any event, we have no idea if a gun was even used at this point.

Then there is the WM thing. LE says DM bought a gun from 3 guys (and how many gangsters does it take to screw in a lighbulb anyway? DM had multiple holsters, multiple crimes...did he have multiple guns as well?) The coroner's case remained open long enough for the gossip and rumours to swell up. Well, usually that's how they deal with these things. It all comes out in time. Surely they have a report and WM's brain in a jar somewhere. Toxicology to show if the guy was drunk when "committed suicide" on not. Then we have many friends and associates saying they never could have expected a suicide, a very low key and poorly publicized funeral, a sarcastic obituary, a cremation instead of a funeral, DP saying that DM wasn't broken up for a second by WM's death (ha ha DP, you didn't see that one coming, did ya!), WM died by a trafficked gun, DM bought a trafficked gun, and DM was the sole heir set to inherit everything.

It's doubtful they have WM's brain in a jar. Maybe some tissue, but not his brain. And if they do, his family knows that.

Nowadays, organs are rarely held back -- and then only with the permission of the chief forensic pathologist -- given advances in medical pathology that require only tiny or microscopic pieces of an organ to be retained.

In addition, since June 2010, relatives have been told if organs are kept for further study.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ontario-apologizes-for-holding-autopsy-organs-1.1199715

Not all of us would agree that the obituary was sarcastic.

There's nothing sinister in a cremation. Millions of people choose that as their preference, rather than the old tradition of burial.

I believe DP's comment has been taken a little out of context. Without finding the video, if I recall correctly, the reporter had commented that DM's life had seemed to take a turn for the worse after his father's death. DP was simply saying that it hadn't affected him emotionally to the extent where he fell apart and could no longer handle anything and turned to a different lifestyle.

I'd still be very interested to know why LE never determined that the gun was illegal when they initially investigated WM's death. If that illegal gun was the one that was used, then LE missed some major checks in their original investigation. You would think that would be one of the first things on the list - the registration of the gun and a comparison of the bullet to the gun used.

Then there is LB. LE allege DM bought a gun and an incinerator around the time that she died. There must have been a heck of a dynamic between the two. They were sexually involved, he had a girlfriend, and both were mentioned in regards to hard-core party drugs like cocaine and Ecstasy/MDMA. Now these drugs can make you pretty emptionally unstable, and apparently LB had always been a bit emotionally unstable, but she was worse in May/June, lashing out at friends by text, fighting with her parents. And from her phone records we can see she was calling DM every day.

Both who were mentioned in regards to the drugs - LB and CN?

We can see that she called him on each of the last three days anyway. No idea of the frequencies before that.

Keep in mind that DM has the first two lines of this song tattooed on his body, so not only can this give us insight on his attitude towards women but we can assume he really really feels this, to go so far as to mark it on his body:

"I am heaven sent,
Don't you dare forget.

I am all you've ever wanted,
What all the other boys all promised.
Sorry I told. I just needed you to know."

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/brandnew/okayibelieveyoubutmytommygundont.html

This emo song is sung like an anthem by the audience at concerts. The kids know and hang on every word. The words are so clear and slow, no doubt DM could recite the song by heart too. He proclaimed that Brand New was his favourite band on his (I think?) yelp or whatever profile too.

DM was a young, handsome, sole heir to a multi-million dollar fortune and my count, pretty well God's gift to golddiggers (and that's the way I think he saw himself too, just based on the tattoo and his lifestyle.)

The Brand New song is worth a few listens because it's about a person who thinks rather than feels, manipulating people who feel rather than think.

Somehow this tune really struck a chord with DM. Of all the tunes out there, he had you write the lyrics to this one down - on his body, yet.

It's not unusual for young people to have lines from songs tattooed on their body. Do a Google image search and you'll see many have a tattoo of this very same song. His attitude towards women? A thinker who manipulates, not a thinker? The song is about being cheated on and telling the world what the ex-lover did. It may be about revenge and covering up the hurt, but I don't see manipulation in there. It does make you wonder why that particular song though. I suppose if that happened in real life, one in his position could feel that the person who did it was just a gold digger.

My theory is that LB had something on DM in relation to the cocaine/Ecstasy(MDMA) (as reported at his parties, and in her history) and saw herself as being in a relationship with DM, a view DM did not share. DM tried to get rid of her but she kept calling, and she threatened vengeance. LB had bitterly reported an ex to LE before.

DM seriously feared LB would go to LE in an act of vengeance, and he would go to jail/prison for his acts. DM killed LB to prevent this. After the fact, he ordered the incinerator, and when it arrived, he used it.

He was afraid she would report his drug parties and he would go to jail for them? It looks to me like he was the buyer, not the seller. So I guess they would have to raid one of his parties for this to be a threat. Am I missing something here?

The gun? I think he bought that to deal with WM, but this LB thing came up first.

It's harder to kill someone you know and DM had to set the stage first, telling AS that the M family was running out of money. But then he never told anyone it was a suicide, instead referring to an aneurism or a "sudden bleed on the brain". Maybe it would be too hard to fake breaking down in tears if you were discussing suicide with others all the time. Like in the Brand New song, the thinking (not feeling) person sings, "We're concentrating on falling apart". It's hard work. And also "Cause you cant keep a secret If it never was a secret to start ". And it's natural for others to feel guilt in the face of another's suicide and DM did not want to be painted with any guilt at all.

At least DM knew what to expect when he fired the gun. LB was the "preliminary hearing" and WM was the "trial".

I believe there are a lot of people who do not disclose suicide of a family member to anyone other than their close circle of family and friends, just as MSM doesn't generally report suicides. It is a private issue and people deal with it differently and depending on the circumstances around it.

(From the song - "And keeping quiet is hard. Cause you cant keep a secret If it never was a secret to start. At least pretend you didn't wanna get caught."
The lover couldn't keep it a secret because everyone else knew what was going on. And because of that, he felt she wanted to get caught and that she could have at least kept it quiet to pretend she didn't want to get caught.)

As for TB, I think DM planned to steal a truck. He had an obnoxious self confidence, you know, the kind of guy that gets "I am heaven set/don't you dare forget" tattooed on himself. He didn't expect that LE would pursue a truck theft if no one got hurt, which is why he did not hide his tattoos at TB's. Instead, TB was killed, and the whole thing unraveled.

In the case of LB and WM, the murders are very personal and it is easy to find motive for DM to kill. MS though is the one that runs in the social circles that contain the wack rapper gangsters that sold DM the gun. If DM turned to MS to help source a gun, MS would know about DM's initial plans for WM, and the unfortunate incident with LB that happened instead. MS would be in a position to blackmail DM, move into his basement, live off his means, and pressure him to become a G. MS knew all DM's secrets, and that was MS's golden ticket. But while MS may have held up a certain gangster lifestyle, it was DM that chose the targets. A lover who became trouble. His father. A Dodge RAM truck. It is DM that wanted the truck and wanted LB and WM dead. It was MS who was a bad influence, but it was DM's desires that they were killing for.

Anyway, that's my theory right now, subject to change and MOO.

Interesting theory about the blackmail. I'm not really sure about who wanted the truck though. DM already had one and MS couldn't even "afford the rent".

JMO
 
  • #1,043
I can't believe that I'm actually in agreement with Carli on something to do with this case, but I saw that quote and thought HOLY WTF! I even checked to make sure she was a lawyer.

I know. Me too.
 
  • #1,044
Who said lawyers were smart or know anything about the an area of law they never practiced?

Major foot in mouth yet likely so unaware she put her foot in her mouth. Doesn't know what she doesn't know or that at least she shouldn't be saying it out loud.

Obviously this is what someone told her in AG 101 in the last 3 weeks (supporting the idea that unbalanced predispositions do result from these isolated decisions) and she so thoughtlessly assumed it ought to be repeatable. Pity this place.

I wonder, was there an extension on the decision given the new position or did she make an important decision like this during her first 4 days on the job?

http://www.chch.com/millard-smitch-will-go-straight-trial/

The quote is accurate, but I suggest before you jump all over her, you take into account the fact she's talking in a second language and she's clearly not at ease in a English.

I will be interested to see if this quote does come back to haunt her. It's definitely on the line if not over it.

The lawyers I know are usually quite cautious.
 
  • #1,045
Hi Tealgrove .... I noticed Police were specific that CN was charged with being an accessory on May 9th 2013 so it does not sound like she was involved in the murder itself. Reading between the lines of the various news reports it almost sounds like she was trying to help DM cover his tracks , or manufacture an alibi or something , I am guessing Police may have been listening to calls or messages between them.

Best wishes , welcome back , look forward to whatever you can dig up.

Hi Arnie,

I agree with everything you have mentioned and I understand that CN was charged very specifically with respect to certain "actions" on May9th.

I should have prefaced my other statements with IMO or IMHO. I do not believe she took part in the murder but I still think (IMHO) that at some point on the evening of the murder, CN was at the Ayr property. I just think that she got nailed for something specific on the 9th, but she's more involved than we know. I wouldn't be surprised to find out at some point that she had fore knowledge of what these two were going to do that night.

I get the Karla Homolka "feeling" here. It's almost like a Perfect Storm. All the stars aligned to bring MS and DM together but also CN.
 
  • #1,046
I do not have an issue with the statement spoken by AG Meilleur: ...... “When this procedure is supported, it’s because there is good evidence that the person that is accused will be convicted.”

That is all a Preliminary hearing would have accomplished ....... ie: determining if there is sufficient evidence to go to trial and obtaining a conviction

AG Meilleur simply told us what a Preliminary hearing would have told us.
 
  • #1,047
Who said lawyers were smart or know anything about the an area of law they never practiced?

Major foot in mouth yet likely so unaware she put her foot in her mouth. Doesn't know what she doesn't know or that at least she shouldn't be saying it out loud.

Obviously this is what someone told her in AG 101 in the last 3 weeks (supporting the idea that unbalanced predispositions do result from these isolated decisions) and she so thoughtlessly assumed it ought to be repeatable. Pity this place.

I wonder, was there an extension on the decision given the new position or did she make an important decision like this during her first 4 days on the job?

A little history on how well the Honourable MM did on her last post....

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5_LJ4pc6cxcJ:www.lfpress.com/2014/03/26/london-lawyer-kevin-egan-and-others-are-stunned-by-madeleine-meilleurs-move-to-ontario-attorney-general-from-corrections+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1173387/opseu-president-demands-immediate-apology-from-corrections-minister

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/05/20130528-142814.html
 
  • #1,048
I get the Karla Homolka "feeling" here.

<rsbm>

I have to admit, I had that feeling go down my back too. At least as it pertains to LB. And especially after we heard that LB had told her that she had been intimate with him.

JMO
 
  • #1,049
I do not have an issue with the statement spoken by AG Meilleur: ...... &#8220;When this procedure is supported, it&#8217;s because there is good evidence that the person that is accused will be convicted.&#8221;

That is all a Preliminary hearing would have accomplished ....... ie: determining if there is sufficient evidence to go to trial and obtaining a conviction

AG Meilleur simply told us what a Preliminary hearing would have told us.

Why would the crown bring charges against anyone if they did not completely believe that there was good evidence that the person would be convicted? Anything less would be a fishing expedition and not worthy of laying charges at all, which this quote now implies was the case prior to eliminating the pretrial.
 
  • #1,050
Why would the crown bring charges against anyone if they did not completely believe that there was good evidence that the person would be convicted? Anything less would be a fishing expedition and not worthy of laying charges at all, which this quote now implies was the case prior to eliminating the pretrial.

Yes, it wouldn't have gotten this far if the Crown didn't already believe this. The difference is that, instead of a judge hearing input from both sides and making the decision, the AG made the decision from only one side's input.

JMO
 
  • #1,051
Probably not a smart thing to say but definitely accurate. I'm not sure you could ask much more as a prosecutor than the evidence they have against DM in the case of TB - and that's just the stuff that's been disclosed.
 
  • #1,052
I am beyond being flabbergasted!! Do my eyes deceive me?? She said WHAT??? I know Madame AG is new on the job, but my word, she's just catapulted what should have been just a good old fashioned newspaper-selling murder trial into a Constitutional challenge! Oh, my goodness, me. The defense lawyers must be dancing with joy. Oh my. Cirque de loi. Oy vey!

Amazingly Madame's job description is actually online in her own website at http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/ag/agrole.asp

... this seems just a tad much.
 
  • #1,053
Snipped from AD's post #1042
I'd still be very interested to know why LE never determined that the gun was illegal when they initially investigated WM's death. If that illegal gun was the one that was used, then LE missed some major checks in their original investigation. You would think that would be one of the first things on the list - the registration of the gun and a comparison of the bullet to the gun used.


Quite possibly LE were in the midst of figuring out who was the original owner of the gun was. Maybe they did find the rightful owner and he didn't know it was stolen from him, therefore there would be no way of tracing it until it showed up in a case such as WM's suicide. After all there's been reports stating DM's father's death was not a closed case.

Could be when LE questioned DM about the gun found with WM, DM made up some cockamamie story saying he knew his dad had obtained the gun but didn't know how. In actuality we don't know what was going on behind the scene in regard to WM's death investigation, therefore we shouldn't jump to conclusions LE let something like this slide or missed it in the investigation of WM's death IMO.
 
  • #1,054
I do not have an issue with the statement spoken by AG Meilleur: ...... &#8220;When this procedure is supported, it&#8217;s because there is good evidence that the person that is accused will be convicted.&#8221;

That is all a Preliminary hearing would have accomplished ....... ie: determining if there is sufficient evidence to go to trial and obtaining a conviction

AG Meilleur simply told us what a Preliminary hearing would have told us.

I agree Arnie and it just may come out it the court proceedings this today (Friday). Something along the lines of; the AG believes there is sufficient evidence which the Crown has provided to seek a conviction against the accused, the reason she has allowed the Crown the right to fast track to trial. And it sounds like she is speaking in general terms to do with any case where the Crown seeks to bypass PH.

It's not like she is giving any of the evidence away or jeopardizing the case. People have already formed their opinions and I do not see her words having any influence on the outcome of the trial. What the jurors will consider and weigh is the actual evidence presented in court, not hang on the words of the GA or their pretrial opinion or intuition. JMO.
 
  • #1,055
Yes, it wouldn't have gotten this far if the Crown didn't already believe this. The difference is that, instead of a judge hearing input from both sides and making the decision, the AG made the decision from only one side's input.

JMO

That input would be evidence. Respectfully do you suspect the defense has solid evidence to show their client is innocent? IMHO I don't, otherwise it would have come to the table long ago and the accused would not be where they are today. So it just goes to reason there is only input from one side; the Crown's case. MOO.
 
  • #1,056
Why would the crown bring charges against anyone if they did not completely believe that there was good evidence that the person would be convicted? Anything less would be a fishing expedition and not worthy of laying charges at all, which this quote now implies was the case prior to eliminating the pretrial.

The quote implies nothing of the sort. She's simply stating one of the conditions of granting a direct indictment.

The problem with the quote IMO is she comes a little too close to saying the accused will be convicted.

As for suggesting the cops and crown are on a fishing expedition in this case, that's just ridiculous given the quantity of evidence. What would you have liked them to do? Ignore it?
 
  • #1,057
Since the driver obviously knew that something was going to happen, surely there is still some kind of accessory charge that would apply. Maybe not to the murder, but to even the theft part of the crime.
I think accessory to theft of a motor vehicle is a much lesser charge, so they wouldn&#8217;t pursue it at this time? The accessory after the fact to murder charge is a possible life sentence.

<snip> I agree that there are a number of things that can be taken either way&#8230;thanks for your comments Althea

He was afraid she would report his drug parties and he would go to jail for them? It looks to me like he was the buyer, not the seller. So I guess they would have to raid one of his parties for this to be a threat. Am I missing something here?

[DM] then told [SL] that [LB] had developed a drug problem and that he had been supplying her with cocaine for months.

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/police-pr...suspect-missing-woman-1.1286814#ixzz37pebPmRg

So all parties aside, it seems that DM was LB&#8217;s drug supplier in the last few months of her life. Where did he get these drugs? Well DM has a buddy, and there is a guy that DM bought a gun off of, both of which would know where to get cocaine:

[MS]&#8217;s rap sheet includes possession of cocaine
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/
[MWJ], 26, of Mississauga, is charged with: [&#8230;] 6. Possession of cocaine
http://cornwallfreenews.com/2014/01...ce-blotter-for-monday-jan-6-2014-tps-opp-cps/
If LB was getting drugs from DM for months it is likely she knew a bit about his routines and his suppliers and could cause DM a whole lotta grief if she went off to LE. MS and MWJ would also appreciate it if LB kept her mouth shut.
Interesting theory about the blackmail. I'm not really sure about who wanted the truck though. DM already had one and MS couldn't even "afford the rent".

JMO

MS&#8217;s style is southern rap, trap and crunk. If he was going to pick any vehicle to steal for himself it would likely be a caddy&#8230;maybe an Escalade? OTOH, trying to visualize MS in a Dodge RAM truck the only rap song that comes to mind is Weird Al Yankovic&#8217;s cover of Chamillionaire&#8217;s Ridin&#8217; Dirty, &#8220;White & Nerdy&#8221;.

The Dodge RAM is definitely DM&#8217;s style. The choice of truck shows DM is the dominant personality.

Caddy or RAM, a truck like that would just be a huge heat score in the hands of MS. The best way to hide a stolen truck is to take it apart into pieces, and DM had the means and reason to do this (replace the engine in his existing RAM).
 
  • #1,058
The quote implies nothing of the sort. She's simply stating one of the conditions of granting a direct indictment.

The problem with the quote IMO is she comes a little too close to saying the accused will be convicted.

As for suggesting the cops and crown are on a fishing expedition in this case, that's just ridiculous given the quantity of evidence. What would you have liked them to do? Ignore it?

This is Canada. Neither government or the courts get to skate because of language limitations. I think there are other issues with her statement, ABro, don't you? Let's first just skip past the part questioning why in whose name she'd make a public statement of any kind about her decision. But it is what it is, so if she WAS referring to this case, qualifier notwithstanding, then she has laid open potential charges of abuse of process, breach of the Charter Rights of the accused and possibly sub judicae, and political interference just for a start. MOO. Since she hasn't ruled on any cases except this one, it could be presumed she must be referring to this one. But that's a moot point because her qualifier only indicated her belief that this is, or will be, her evidential test for direct indictment in ALL cases, INCLUDING this one.

However, If she WAS not referring to this case, then she's laid bare cause for review of all her decisions since taking office, IMO, including this one. To wit, in this case, if she does not grasp the fundamental purpose for preliminary hearings, then how legally grounded have her other decisions been? For anyone harbouring confusion about this, a Preliminary Hearing is to determine if the prosecution's evidence is sufficient to support the charges. It is not to determine whether someone is guilty, but to determine if there is sufficient evidence for a trial.

In other words, the goal of trial is to determine a defendant&#8217;s guilt. The goal of a preliminary hearing is to screen cases -- to weed out weak cases and protect defendants from unfounded prosecutions. To this end, in a PH, the judge, piece by piece, determines the admissibility of the prosecution evidence, tossing out this or that as necessary, thereby saving the "real" court buckets of time (and money). Additionally, and importantly, the judge also gets to hear in what form this evidence will be put together and his rulings may provide certain directives in this regard, that will shorten the time (and money) spent in court.

The defendant's lawyers do not provide evidence at a PT but thy are permitted to cross-examine witnesses and challenge evidence in an effort to convince the judge that the case does not have "legs". If the judge agrees that the case isn't strong enough to show that the accused committed the crime, the case will be dismissed. If the prosecutor's evidence does meet the test for sufficiency, then a trial date will be set.



I was going to qualify the preceding statements with a MOO, but they are not my opinion only. They are the law.

In this case 8 weeks had been set for the prosecution to present its evidence at a Preliminary Hearing. Unless the AG wants OJ Simpson trial marathon, a good deal of housekeeping is probably warranted in this case because by the time the Defense has finished challenging witnesses, asking for dismissals, demanding interventions for inadmissability, oh yes, and presenting its own case, then many moons will have passed.

However many members of the public find great pleasure in ramping up the schadenfreude to which I can only say, party on....

Otherwise, see

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Procedure_and_Practice/Preliminary_Inquiry


Actually, these considerations, as they relate to decisions of the AG are well set out on the AG's own website, including the following:

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/ag/agrole.asp

An important part of the Crown's - and thus the Attorney General's - responsibility in conducting criminal prosecutions is associated with the responsibility to represent the public interest - which includes not only the community as a whole and the victim, but also the accused. The Crown has a distinct responsibility to the court to present all the credible evidence available.

The responsibility is to present the case fairly - not necessarily to convict. This is a fundamental precept of criminal law, even if it is not a particularly well-understood concept among the general public. One of the Attorney General's responsibilities in fostering public respect for the rule of law, is to assist the public in understanding the nature and limits of the prosecutorial function.

Ultimately the Attorney General is accountable to the people of the province, through the Legislature, for decisions relating to criminal prosecutions. Such accountability can only occur, of course, once the prosecution is completed or when a final decision has been made not to prosecute. The sub judicae rule bars any comment on a matter before the courts that is likely to influence the matter. The sub judicae rule strictly prohibits the Attorney General from commenting on prosecutions that are before the courts. Given the stature of the Attorney General's position, any public comment coming from the office would be seen as an attempt to influence the case.

Although the Attorney general can become involved in decision-making in relation to individual criminal cases, such a practice would leave the Minister vulnerable to accusations of political interference. Accordingly, it is traditional to leave the day-to-day decision-making in the hands of the Attorney General's agents, the Crown Attorneys, except in cases of exceptional importance where the public would expect the Attorney General to be briefed.
 
  • #1,059
  • #1,060
That input would be evidence. Respectfully do you suspect the defense has solid evidence to show their client is innocent? IMHO I don't, otherwise it would have come to the table long ago and the accused would not be where they are today. So it just goes to reason there is only input from one side; the Crown's case. MOO.

Respectfully, swedie, for goodness sakes. They don't have to provide solid evidence to show their client is innocent. They are tasked with successfully convincing the court that the prosecution evidence provides insufficient proof of guilt. Let's hear it for the Magna Carta, everyone. :drumroll: And an extra hip hip for Corpus Delicti. :cheer:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
115
Guests online
2,424
Total visitors
2,539

Forum statistics

Threads
632,724
Messages
18,630,943
Members
243,274
Latest member
WickedGlow
Back
Top