Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

[fred&edna]

Dr. Ballard/Woods Hole was the first with Alvin. to be fair Cameron was making a movie.

Argo (ROV) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I can't find it now but I swear I read that Cameron used the retired Russian MIR submersibles in some form or fashion. I wonder how he got them and obviously that means he didn't start from scratch either... assuming the info is true.

 

[gitana1]

Really? Why? Air travel is a necessity in modern life. Travelling to the depths of the ocean is a luxury that taxpayers need not fund IMO.

What about space travel?

 

[ch_13]

Really? Why? Air travel is a necessity in modern life. Travelling to the depths of the ocean is a luxury that taxpayers need not fund IMO.

We know so little about the Earth's oceans, especially at great depths. Scientists studying marine ecology, plate tectonics, geothermal energy, earthquakes, and so much more would benefit greatly from being able to regularly travel all the way down to the seabed.

Aside from scientific enquiry, there are many other benefits to DSV's for both military and civilian uses. But really, all that is outside the scope of this thread. So I suggest we agree to disagree and not derail the discussion.

 

[Erutan]

I recommend reading about Robert Ballard and how he discovered and filmed the Titanic and other ship wrecks, and the things that happened after his finding.
I recommend his Nat Geo. videos and books.

Robert Ballard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks for the link !
Will go and look up the info.

 

[iamshadow21]

I know he designed and built a submersible.


Here's an article from 2012

Mr Cameron has spent the past few years working in secret with his team of engineers to design and build the craft, which weighs 11 tonnes and is more than 7m (23ft) long.
He describes it as a "vertical torpedo" that slices through the water allowing him a speedy descent.

James Cameron back on surface after deepest ocean dive

Film director James Cameron returns to the surface after becoming the first person in 50 years to reach the deepest point in the ocean, the Mariana Trench.

www.bbc.com

ETA: And, here's more info on his "Deep Sea Challenge"

James Cameron - DEEPSEA CHALLENGE Team

Expedition Leader, Submersible Co-designer, and Pilot Born in Canada, James Cameron moved to California in 1971 at the age of 17. He studied physics at Fullerton Junior College while working as a machinist, and later a truck driver. Setting his sights on a career in film, Cameron quit his...

www.deepseachallenge.com

And, I posted this video previously...

I never cease to be astounded by it, from a perspective of a study of decay. You have what was obviously a cabin, walls of steel swiss cheese, barely recognisable, and in the middle of the room, a wood and brass bed head, upright, gleaming as though it's just been polished, and opposite it, a small vanity with a smooth white marble or porcelain top and a perfectly intact front of wicker. After almost a hundred years.

One of the pictures that has remained in my brain for decades, though I can't find it online, was an unrecognisably twisted mess of metal from the debris field, and sat on top of it, upright, an intact teacup, as though someone had just placed it there and walked away.

It's the dissonance of intactness contrasted with terrible decay and destruction that I thinks makes the images so arresting. The randomness of what is still virtually the same and what is completely obliterated. The parallel between that and the randomness of who survived and who did not. It makes me hurt, deeply, for all those who never came home. Five more, now, who will be there, in some form, forever.

MOO

 

[gitana1]

Thanks to everyone who has been answering my questions. It’s going to fast. Tons of interesting info. I have multiple tabs open to explore this whole area of deep sea exploration and submersibles.

And also those who have given us all so much technical info. Like @PrairieWind and @Interested_But_Confused, etc. I’ve learned so much and it’s helped to understand.

 

[fred&edna]

We know so little about the Earth's oceans, especially at great depths. Scientists studying marine ecology, plate tectonics, geothermal energy, earthquakes, and so much more would benefit greatly from being able to regularly travel all the way down to the seabed.

Aside from scientific enquiry, there are many other benefits to DSV's for both military and civilian uses. But really, all that is outside the scope of this thread. So I suggest we agree to disagree and not derail the discussion.

And, there are those marine sponges and other sea "life" that have been the source of human medications.

ETA: A link

Cancer-Fighting Green Sponge Brings More Than Just Good Luck!

The unique green color of the Latrunculina austini sponge gives it St. Patrick’s Day spirit all year long. Instead of a pot of gold, this sponge’s value lies in its molecular chemical composition—it targets and kills pancreatic and ovarian tumor cells.

www.fisheries.noaa.gov

 

[JDG]

“Crushed inwards”

Can you please elaborate, would that mean it’s contained?

The water rushed in quickly, likely cutting them to bits and crushing them.

The water would be so fast that their brains wouldn’t receive the signal to know what was happening as they died almost instantaneously.

They were in the ocean, contained to what?? The ocean.

 

[gitana1]

Statement from our Principal | University of Strathclyde

www.strath.ac.uk

"I feel disbelief," Azmeh said, speaking through sobs. "It's an unreal situation."

"I feel like I've been caught in a really bad film, with a countdown, but you didn't know what you're counting down to," she said. "I personally have found it kind of difficult to breathe thinking of them."

"I never thought I would have an issue with drawing breath," she added. "It's been unlike any experience I've ever had."

Azmeh and Shahzada are scions of one of the most prominent corporate dynasties in Pakistan. The family’s namesake business empire, Dawood Hercules Corp., has investments in agriculture, the health sector and other industries.

Shahzada was the vice chairman of the Karachi-based Engro Corporation and an adviser to Prince’s Trust International, a charitable organization founded by King Charles III.

In recent years, Azmeh had fallen out of touch with Shahzada. ​

She was diagnosed with primary progressive multiple sclerosis in 2014 and "reduced to being in a wheelchair." She and her husband decided to move from England to Amsterdam so she would have easier access to medicinal cannabis.

19-year-old Titan passenger was ‘terrified’ before trip, his aunt says

Azmeh Dawood, the older sister of Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood, said her nephew was reluctant to go on the Titan expedition.

www.nbcnews.com

If she had fallen out of touch, I’m taking what she said with a grain of salt, about her nephew.

 

[PrairieWind]

I'm guessing CEO Rush did not know any of this. And he fired the one guy who was trained in such matters (and who wanted NDT and different designs).

imo

Stockton Rush was an aerospace engineer educated at Princeton. He should have known this.

 

[gitana1]

The water rushed in quickly, likely cutting them to bits and crushing them.

The water would be so fast that their brains wouldn’t receive the signal to know what was happening as they died almost instantaneously.

They were in the ocean, contained to what?? The ocean.

Isn't it more that the pressure from the outside basically popped the vessel, squeezing everything inside to fragments? An implosion is like an explosion but inwards. No rushing water really?

ETA: Kind of like this:

 

[gitana1]

Stockton Rush was an aerospace engineer educated at Princeton. He should have known this.

And he was the main designer, no? He also spoke about the criticism of the design quite a bit.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm guessing CEO Rush did not know any of this. And he fired the one guy who was trained in such matters (and who wanted NDT and different designs).

imo

You will like this article. Very in-depth on CEO Rush:

A Deep Dive Into the Plans to Take Tourists to the 'Titanic'

For a handsome price, a daredevil inventor will bring you aboard his groundbreaking submarine to put eyes on most famous shipwreck of all

www.smithsonianmag.com

I am sure Rush full well knew exactly that the (always used in the industry) perfectly spherical pressure hull was superior to his "innovative" tubular shaped pressure hull. He knew because he developed the submersible design.

As Interested_But_Confused says in their very informative post:

Normally subs designed for this kind of depth use a perfectly spherical pressure hull. The sphere is inherently much stronger than other shapes because the force applies equally in all directions; there's no inherent weak spot. Spherical hulls have been used successfully on pretty much all previous deep sea vessels, and up to now none of them have had a catastrophic failure.

Rush's big thing was innovation. He complained that regulations interfered with innovation.
Rush hoped for an explosion in ocean tech innovation.

OceanGate made history: Titan became the first privately owned sub with a human aboard to dive that deep and beyond, finally reaching 4,000 meters, or about 13,000 feet—a little deeper than where the Titanic lies.

“Stockton is a real pioneer,” says Scott Parazynski, a 17-year NASA veteran, “It’s not easy to take a white sheet of paper, come up with a new submersible design, fund it, test it and mature it. It was an incredibly audacious thing to do.”

A rendering of OceanGate’s Titan submersible exploring the deck of the Titanic. OceanGate

The maker of the lost Titan submersible previously complained about strict passenger-vessel regulations, saying the industry was 'obscenely safe'​

The maker of the lost Titan submersible previously complained about strict passenger-vessel regulations, saying the industry was 'obscenely safe'

In a 2019 interview about the Titan, OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush lamented the effect of safety regulations on the commercial submersible industry.

news.yahoo.com

• CEO Stockton Rush said he understood the regulations but regretted their effect on innovation.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671990450616410115

 

[gitana1]

You will like this article. Very in-depth on CEO Rush:

A Deep Dive Into the Plans to Take Tourists to the 'Titanic'

For a handsome price, a daredevil inventor will bring you aboard his groundbreaking submarine to put eyes on most famous shipwreck of all

www.smithsonianmag.com

I am sure Rush full well knew exactly that the (always used in the industry) perfectly spherical pressure hull was superior to his "innovative" tubular shaped pressure hull. He knew because he developed the submersible design.

As Interested_But_Confused says in their very informative post:

Normally subs designed for this kind of depth use a perfectly spherical pressure hull. The sphere is inherently much stronger than other shapes because the force applies equally in all directions; there's no inherent weak spot. Spherical hulls have been used successfully on pretty much all previous deep sea vessels, and up to now none of them have had a catastrophic failure.

Rush's big thing was innovation. He complained that regulations interfered with innovation.
Rush hoped for an explosion in ocean tech innovation.

OceanGate made history: Titan became the first privately owned sub with a human aboard to dive that deep and beyond, finally reaching 4,000 meters, or about 13,000 feet—a little deeper than where the Titanic lies.

“Stockton is a real pioneer,” says Scott Parazynski, a 17-year NASA veteran, “It’s not easy to take a white sheet of paper, come up with a new submersible design, fund it, test it and mature it. It was an incredibly audacious thing to do.”

View attachment 430546
A rendering of OceanGate’s Titan submersible exploring the deck of the Titanic. OceanGate

The maker of the lost Titan submersible previously complained about strict passenger-vessel regulations, saying the industry was 'obscenely safe'

In a 2019 interview about the Titan, OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush lamented the effect of safety regulations on the commercial submersible industry.

news.yahoo.com

Thanks for that info. Question: What about the ones Cameron used? Weren’t they privately owned?

 

[whitelilac]

Titanic sub passengers died instantly in ‘catastrophic implosion’; wreckage from doomed vessel is discovered on ocean floor

A remotely operated vehicle discovered a debris field while searching the site of the Titanic’s wreckage for the missing OceanGate submersible, the US Coast Guard said.

nypost.com

June 22, 2023 12:23pm Updated

Wasn't there a distress signal just before contact was lost? I only hope the implosion occurred immediately after that distress signal.
Just devastating.
My heartfelt condolences to the families.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

“Crushed inwards”

Can you please elaborate, would that mean it’s contained?

I apologize for being gruesome, but not so much "contained" as crushed into a blob of mush. If you've seen meat that has been put in a blender, that's about what you'd be left with. And after four days, I suspect aquatic life would already have consumed most of what was left.

 

[AliceInPain]

My mind is still with the young man, I know they found pieces of the sub, did they also find pieces of bodies? And yes I know that sounds horrible, my main question is, are they absolutely sure they are all gone

 

[fred&edna]

Dr. Ballard/Woods Hole was the first with Alvin. to be fair Cameron was making a movie.

Argo (ROV) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ballard!:

 

[fred&edna]

Ballard!:

Fascinating! (I got so excited I quoted myself)