TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #27

[wishuwerehere]

Carla: Or, those "voices" that Clint heard were actually screams, that's why he called his mom. Afterall, Clint's description is 'murky'.

However, the theory about the kneeling because the perp was hiding with Holly - I can buy that.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Carla: Or, those "voices" that Clint heard were actually screams, that's why he called his mom. Afterall, Clint's description is 'murky'.

However, the theory about the kneeling because the perp was hiding with Holly - I can buy that.

If I were describing what I heard, there is a big difference between stranger voices and conversation, and my sister screaming...

Clint has not said if he did or didn't hear screams at any time, but we have not heard his whole story, unedited, uninterrupted, from start to finish. If he did hear screams why not be more concerned???

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Except for hearing that the blood is Holly's, I can't think of anything new that has come out since April, really.

The turkey is missing :woohoo:

 

[cluciano63]

The turkey is missing :woohoo:

Well..."gone" anyway...

 

[~n/t~]

Except for hearing that the blood is Holly's, I can't think of anything new that has come out since April, really.

Kneeling in the carport (garage) and CB hearing voices was new to me which made it even more confusing.

Before that interview, I envisioned Holly's car in the driveway, she walks out of the front door to get to her car, camo guy approaches her, grabs her and leads (drags) her into the woods.

Now we have a period of perhaps 10 minutes or more. Holly comes out of the home (we don't know where she came out from), goes to the carport located at the back of the house (we don't know if carport is the garage or if the garage is the carport), dog barking, Holly and camo guy talk (CB hears voices), they kneel, CB calls mom and then she's lead into the woods.

One thing that remained consistant is CB was convinced it was Holly's bf. That never changed as far as I know. I think the height changed from 5'10 to 6' but I don't know when that happened or if that is exactly what I recall.

 

[Prancy]

While I respect and have empathy for all family and friends of the victim, I think the best route is to not eliminate anybody, unless LE says they have been eliminated AND since they say that no one has been eliminated, that's the route I'm going. I don't assume that anything is what it seems or appears to be. You never know.

In light of that, I'm trying to consider things that fit with what the brother says he saw. There are many theories here about that. What if the abductor told Holly he was going to rape her and that it would happen right there. He forces her to her knees, they both get down on the floor, and then she, trying to spare her brother from possibly seeing this, convinces the abductor to take it elsewhere OR the floor is too hard and the abductor then decides the act will take place elsewhere.

Maybe she leaves calmly trying to spare her brother from being harmed if he intervenes. The only problem with this is that if the brother had access to a firearm, he could have used it on the guy.

 

[~n/t~]

While I respect and have empathy for all family and friends of the victim, I think the best route is to not eliminate anybody, unless LE says they have been eliminated AND since they say that no one has been eliminated, that's the route I'm going. I don't assume that anything is what it seems or appears to be. You never know.

In light of that, I'm trying to consider things that fit with what the brother says he saw. There are many theories here about that. What if the abductor told Holly he was going to rape her and that it would happen right there. He forces her to her knees, they both get down on the floor, and then she, trying to spare her brother from possibly seeing this, convinces the abductor to take it elsewhere OR the floor is too hard and the abductor then decides the act will take place elsewhere.

Maybe she leaves calmly trying to spare her brother from being harmed if he intervenes. The only problem with this is that if the brother had access to a firearm, he could have used it on the guy.

Which he didn't do for some reason but instead called his mom. The ever burning question is why did he call mom if he thought it was Holly and BF? There would've been nothing suspicious about that. I would've gone back to bed.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Elaborate please

Note that the family and LE have said the brother is not a suspect (although LE has said they also have not ruled anyone out).

Evidence found seems to indicate a third party was involved.

Time line would make things difficult for the brother to be involved.

Zero known motive

I can not think of any/many missing woman cases where it was the brother versus either a stranger (Elizabeth Smart), neighbor (family killed and stuffed into hollow tree and teenage daughter kidnapped), uncooperative friends (Britnee Drexel), husband or ex husband (Drew Peterson, Scott Peterson, Shelly Mook?)

The brother himself has been pretty consistent in his statements. What is attributed to him, or reported fifth hand by a blogger is not necessarily what he has said. Discrepencies do have logical explainations (like very poor interviewer skills, LE withholding evidence, etc.)

What was the evidence found that indicates a third party?

Clint Bobo may be consistent in his witness account, but Karen Bobo has stated something different.

Clint says--he awoke to the dog barking, called his mom
Karen Bobo says a neighbor called HER at school after she heard a scream and then She called Clint? (these statements were made by Clint and Karen themselves on TV interviews.

Where is it stated that just because none of the cases you mentioned involved the "brother", it is unlikely him. I would venture to guess there are plenty of cases that do......or this could be the first.

It would seem to me until someone OTHER THAN A FAMILY MEMBER, can establish a visual sighting of Holly prior to that morning--for all we know she could have been taken well before the morning of April 13th. I find it hard to believe there was NO trace of Holly past the fence line of the woods--she just disappeared along with her assailant, surely something would have been found ---other than her lunch 8 miles away.

So, not saying Clint did something, just agree with some here that something just DOES NOT FIT.

Perhaps I have missed it, but has someone come forward to establish the last time someone saw Holly prior to that morning. I think that would be a good piece of information to have, don't you?

 

[OldSteve]

My scenario has always been similar to this....


Parents up, go to work...

Holly has been up studying, getting ready for school.

Clint is sleeping or at least not up and out of bed.

Holly leaves the house. She goes out the back door to her car in the car port. I am assuming this back door leads into the back of the garage. She is startled by someone. There is some discussion or scuffle. He may have struck holly. This is when the dog starts barking and Clint wakes up. He has heard the voices outside.

Based on what Clint said we know that Holly and the suspect were in the garage, aparently after he heard voices outside. Perhaps Holly tried to go back into the house? Perhaps the suspect, thinking Holly was alone, started to take her back inside?

Possibly after being struck, Holly is kneeling in the garage, and the suspect is with her. This is when Clint sees them, aparently in silhouette. So he does not see much detail. Possibly the suspect had become aware of Clint and was trying to hide by kneeling (with Holly).

After Clint leaves that part of the house to call his mom (all this is murky in Clint's description) the suspect and Holly leave the garage and walk up the back of the hosue through the yard. Clint sees them out a window...

At some point after the suspect is away from the property with Holly, she screams. Maybe he is trying to tie her, gag her, put her into a vehicle? She is closer to a neighbor and the neighbor, who is outside at the time, hears the screams and call 911.

I do not think the screams happened first. If the screaming had been first, then the phone calls would have been earlier rather than later, based on what little we know about the calls.

Addendum:

I also dont think she would instantly start screaming, then very calmly and quietly just walk along next to this guy going into the woods. Doesnt make sense that way. I can see her being calm and cooperative at first beucas maybe she was hit or threatened, but then paniced and screamed later on.

Yes, I agree with your analysis - and your point about her being calm at first and screaming later is very logical. Like you, cannot image if she started screaming, she could have been led away the way she was.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

What was the evidence found that indicates a third party? That items of Hollys were found in various locations that would be unnecessary if it were a covered up accident or something Clint did. No evidence would be better than planting fake evidence . Searches were made outside the parking lot to Holly's school, indicating someone may have been waiting there. The fact that LE has asked locals to look for a person who was not at work, was selling ATV tires, had washed or cleaned a vehicle, etc.

Clint Bobo may be consistent in his witness account, but Karen Bobo has stated something different.

Clint says--he awoke to the dog barking, called his mom
Karen Bobo says a neighbor called HER at school after she heard a scream and then She called Clint? (these statements were made by Clint and Karen themselves on TV interviews. Clint calling Karen and a neighbor calling Karen do not contradict each other. We do not know exactly when anyone called anyone here, or if they spoke more than once, etc. Even the number of 911 calls is a bit sketchy.

Where is it stated that just because none of the cases you mentioned involved the "brother", it is unlikely him. I would venture to guess there are plenty of cases that do......or this could be the first. I am the one that said I can not think of any cases off the top of my head where the brother was the suspect as opposed to strangers or other individuals. I believe I said anything is possible but thats certainly not a common type of crime. When I try to figure out what may have ocurred, I tend not to focus on the most extreme, rare, unlikely scenario, especially without any evidence at all. Most crimes are not so complicated once you figure out 1) motive 2) type of crime and 3) have a real suspect.

It would seem to me until someone OTHER THAN A FAMILY MEMBER, can establish a visual sighting of Holly prior to that morning--for all we know she could have been taken well before the morning of April 13th. I find it hard to believe there was NO trace of Holly past the fence line of the woods--she just disappeared along with her assailant, surely something would have been found ---other than her lunch 8 miles away. It has been said by LE that various items were recovered in various locations. So that is a trace of Holly. There are no reports that say no trace of her was found beyond the wood line. The fact that LE has said they feel a car or ATV was involved indicates, perhaps, tire tracks were found. There is no reason to believe Holly was taken before that morning. None of her friends, b/f, classmates, etc have said oh yeah she was gone a week before she was "abducted".

So, not saying Clint did something, just agree with some here that something just DOES NOT FIT.

Perhaps I have missed it, but has someone come forward to establish the last time someone saw Holly prior to that morning. I think that would be a good piece of information to have, don't you?

I think a big part of the reason things don't fit is you have two or three people each telling bits of a story piecemeal. Dana, the father, wasn't there. So he can only offer theories and ideas. Karen was not there and can only speak to her telephone conversations. Clint heard and saw a bit of what happened, but has not sat down, uninterrupted, and told his story from start to finish, without leaving out details etc. Im sure there are things the family has been instructed not to talk about. And a lot of the interviews (not that there have been many, have been poorly done.

I am not sure knowing when the last time anyone (else) saw Holly before her mom saw her that morning is of any earthshattering importance. If you believe Karen and there is no reason not to, she saw Holly that morning studying. I do not know what good having 2 people say oh yeah we saw her the night before at 9 PM. If no one saw her for some time or if there was controversey over her last sighting, then it would be very important. I assume her b/f saw her the night before.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Yes, I agree with your analysis - and your point about her being calm at first and screaming later is very logical. Like you, cannot image if she started screaming, she could have been led away the way she was.

Thanks... I try to look at what little evidence we have, and to reconstruct what may have happened in a logical manner. We have a lot of details that are, perhaps, out of sequence. Exact location is unknown. But we can sort of make very logical assumptions. By and large people do similar things, have similar routines, etc. I dont think any of my assumptions are contradicted by the sparse evidence and statements we have to work on. To me they make a good bit of sense.

I try not to come up with elaborate or complicated or exreme scenarios either. Becuase those things would be so unusual they would probably be rare, if that were really the case and you wouldnt normally think of them anyway.

 

[~n/t~]

In my opinion, regardless of whether or not CB was interrupted or not during the interview the telephone calls should be consistant.

KB says she called CB

CB says he called KB


Which is it and why the inconsistency? And before anyone says, well there could have been 2 calls, that would make it even more puzzling.

Again, it makes no sense to me that CB called mom to let her know Holly was with her BF. If he did, there must be a reason. Otherwise he would look out the window, see Holly and someone who he thought was her boyfriend and go about his own business. Was he checking up on her? Was Drew not supposed to be there for whatever reason and he was alerting mom?

There is a very big piece of the puzzle missing and I think that is the clue that will crack this case. IMO

 

[telemag]

Elaborate please

Note that the family and LE have said the brother is not a suspect (although LE has said they also have not ruled anyone out).

Evidence found seems to indicate a third party was involved.

Time line would make things difficult for the brother to be involved.

Zero known motive

I can not think of any/many missing woman cases where it was the brother versus either a stranger (Elizabeth Smart), neighbor (family killed and stuffed into hollow tree and teenage daughter kidnapped), uncooperative friends (Britnee Drexel), husband or ex husband (Drew Peterson, Scott Peterson, Shelly Mook?)

The brother himself has been pretty consistent in his statements. What is attributed to him, or reported fifth hand by a blogger is not necessarily what he has said. Discrepencies do have logical explainations (like very poor interviewer skills, LE withholding evidence, etc.)

Carla, I am going to play Devil's advocate here for a second with some questions and some comments. Not saying believe what I am saying, but if I were LE I would certainly be concerned or curious as to a few things.

First as far as I know LE has stated as of Aug. 16th that the family has not been ruled out although they are concentrating on other people. I don't have the link to this article, but just google Holly Bobo in the news section and it's easy to find.

Second and it's a question, what evidence suggests a third party?

Third, you state the the timeline suggests it not likely for CB to have been involved. I asked a while back who the last person was to see Holly the night before. When was the last time that her parents saw her? Was it the night before? Was CB the last person to see her the night before? If so is it at all possible that some unfortunate incident happened the night before between Holly and her brother? If so, then this would add many hours to the timeline.
Did Holly's mom ever mention that she or her husband saw Holly that morning?

Forth, zero motive. That is nothing more than your opinion. Since we do not know these people for all we know he could have hated her. I personally could give you examples of siblings who seem to get along perfectly in public, but behind closed doors the opposite is true.

Fifth, you say that you can't find an example of a girl being abducted and or killed by her brother, but how many of the ones that you give as an example were last seen by the brother. This is a very unique crime.

Sixth, I wouldn't necessarily put the blame on poor interviewing skills when it comes to the discrepancies in CB's story. To be blunt he doesn't make much sense when asked a very simple question. Either his answers are way to short or just nonsensical. I could give examples, but I think most here know what I mean. The reason that his statements are mostly consistant is simply because he doesn't say much when he talks.

So please take no offense I just wanted to give another view on some of the points you mention.

 

[cluciano63]

I know Holly's mom said she was up studying at 4:30AM or whatever time, but did she say she saw her? I can't recall what that part was...

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Carla, I am going to play Devil's advocate here for a second with some questions and some comments. Not saying believe what I am saying, but if I were LE I would certainly be concerned or curious as to a few things.

First as far as I know LE has stated as of Aug. 16th that the family has not been ruled out although they are concentrating on other people. I don't have the link to this article, but just google Holly Bobo in the news section and it's easy to find. Yes LE has had typical doublespeak where the family is not a suspect but no one has been ruled out...

Second and it's a question, what evidence suggests a third party?

The fact that LE has asked the public about someone selling tires, cleaning a vehicle, missing from work... that LE has searched outside Holly's school (family member would not have to loiter outside her school) and that items from that morning were seemingly found scattered around some distance which would make it more difficult for Clint to do.
Third, you state the the timeline suggests it not likely for CB to have been involved. I asked a while back who the last person was to see Holly the night before. When was the last time that her parents saw her? Was it the night before? Was CB the last person to see her the night before? If so is it at all possible that some unfortunate incident happened the night before between Holly and her brother? If so, then this would add many hours to the timeline.
Did Holly's mom ever mention that she or her husband saw Holly that morning?

All we have is Karen's statement that she was up and studying early that morning and that yes Karen spoke to Holly in persosn the morning she disappeared. I have no reason to believe that is not true. I do not think Clint did anything or there was some accident because the time to clean it up, drive around a large area spreading fake evidence, etc. does not mesh with the time frame very well. IMHO... Nor do we know of a reason why the family would not call 911 if there was an accident. Accidents do happen and most folks call 911. People dont normally make an accident look like a crime.

Forth, zero motive. That is nothing more than your opinion. Since we do not know these people for all we know he could have hated her. I personally could give you examples of siblings who seem to get along perfectly in public, but behind closed doors the opposite is true.

Thats very true. Although now almost 5 months into it we have not heard anyone who had any ill will towards the family, nor has anyone mentioned any strife from within the family. Usually skeletons will come out of closets. The community seems to stand very firmly behind the family too. That speaks a lot, to me. And again, lots of siblings may not get along but that does not usually lead to murder and some huge cover up.

Fifth, you say that you can't find an example of a girl being abducted and or killed by her brother, but how many of the ones that you give as an example were last seen by the brother. This is a very unique crime. Never said it wasn't unique. Actually having any witness to an abduction is very rare. I do not think it is more or less significant that her brother saw it, versus the meter reader, paper boy, etc.

Sixth, I wouldn't necessarily put the blame on poor interviewing skills when it comes to the discrepancies in CB's story. To be blunt he doesn't make much sense when asked a very simple question. Either his answers are way to short or just nonsensical. I could give examples, but I think most here know what I mean. The reason that his statements are mostly consistant is simply because he doesn't say much when he talks.

No he isnt the most precise. But then he is cut off, interrupted, lead by interviewers. And I assume there are details he , for various reasons, may not want to speak about. So it makes for a very disjointed story. One of the reason his answers are short is he does these 2-10 minute live TV interviews whre the host asks direct questions that he can answer with a word or two. I think in part of the JVM interview she is confused by something and says they will get back to that for clarification, which never happens... thats HER fault.

So please take no offense I just wanted to give another view on some of the points you mention.

Oh not at all. I could not form my opinion without input from all of you guys here...

Yeah it is a real strange case...

 

[Carla Lashelle]

In my opinion, regardless of whether or not CB was interrupted or not during the interview the telephone calls should be consistant.

KB says she called CB

CB says he called KB


Which is it and why the inconsistency? And before anyone says, well there could have been 2 calls, that would make it even more puzzling.

Again, it makes no sense to me that CB called mom to let her know Holly was with her BF. If he did, there must be a reason. Otherwise he would look out the window, see Holly and someone who he thought was her boyfriend and go about his own business. Was he checking up on her? Was Drew not supposed to be there for whatever reason and he was alerting mom?

There is a very big piece of the puzzle missing and I think that is the clue that will crack this case. IMO

I still dont know why 1) if he thought it was Holly and Drew he just didn't go back to bed or 2) if he didn't know who it was HE DIDN"T LOOK HIMSELF I just don't get that. My cat will go investigate stuff he hears in the house but a 25 year old man has to call his mom to ask who is in the garage?

Im not sure the phone call stuff is contradictory or not becuase we do not know the total of all the calls made and who called whom and when and if they called back, etc. And yeah its all confusing anyway.

Yes something is missing and people try to talk around it...

 

[DanInOz]

Coming out of lurkdom to ask a question.....

How many people live in Hollys town? I seem to recall its a small town is that right?

Reason for my question is that LE seems to think its a local.

Years ago there was a murder & rape I believe of a woman here in Australia on an island. All of the men that were on the island volunteered their DNA to rule them out as suspects. The killer was found.

Is there a possibility that all the men (within the age bracket etc of the suspect) in & around Hollys town could at least give an alibi & DNA just in case Hollys body is found?

Apologies is this is a stupid question :blushing:

 

[telemag]

I still dont know why 1) if he thought it was Holly and Drew he just didn't go back to bed or 2) if he didn't know who it was HE DIDN"T LOOK HIMSELF I just don't get that. My cat will go investigate stuff he hears in the house but a 25 year old man has to call his mom to ask who is in the garage?

Im not sure the phone call stuff is contradictory or not becuase we do not know the total of all the calls made and who called whom and when and if they called back, etc. And yeah its all confusing anyway.

Yes something is missing and people try to talk around it...

You know it kinda sounds to me like Holly and CB may not have been on speaking terms at that time. This might explain why he called his Mom. Think of it this way. CB gets up sees that Holly is there with her BF. Maybe he was looking forward to having the house to himself that day and when he saw Holly he got mad and thought hey I'll all Mom and get her in trouble for ditching class to hang with her BF. This would be logical if they had recently had a spat about something. If had thought of this before just never posted it.

 

[telemag]

Sorry if I am posting too much but keep thinking about this. Holly is a very pretty girl and I wonder how many of CB's friends were also trying to hook up for lack of a better term with her thru CB? One of my best friends has a pretty younger sister and we were always teasing him about it when we were younger. Wonder if LE has looked into this at all. Maybe one of CB's friends had gotten a little too infactuated with her. This might explain why she didn't run or scream right away. Cb said he didn't see his face and I'm sure tons of guys in that town wear camo clothing.

 

[plaidmom]

I wonder if CB has a girlfriend.

Appologies in advance if that is out of bounds.