TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

[telemag]

We can't really say it was a perfect crime without knowing what kind of crime it was supposed to be all along. If this was supposed to be a robbery, for example, it is not perfect as nothing was stolen (that we know of). It does seem Clint interrupted or altered something that was happening. But we do not know exactly what this is.

Myself I think that gaining access to the inside of the house was part of the original crime. If this were purely a kidnapping why wait around the house 10-15 minutes, going in and out of the garage, etc. Just snatch Holly and run. And since Clint heard voices outside the house before he saw the figures in the garage, Holly and the suspect seeminly went into/back into that area after being outside. I do not think the suspect knew Clint was home then. I think the dog barking and Clint peering into the garage tipped him off and then he made a hasty retreat from the property with Holly in tow.

Now why was he there? Was this some sort of sexual assault/infatuation crime where the suspect wanted to do whatever at the home or in the home, thinking it was just him and Holly? I sort of think this was the intent partly because it seems Holly and the suspect entered back into the garage after they were outside the house initially.

In an unrelated thought train... the lack of a visible weapon has got me thinking a bit. This is just random stuff/details.... Being hunting season, etc. and with the suspect (and seemingly lots of folks) going around in camouflage you would think perhaps the suspect would have had a rifle. It would not be unusual, uncommon or terribly suspicious. And if you were going to commit some sort of crime a rifle is a good weapon of choice. At least if you were observed going to and from the scene with a hunting rifle no one would be obviously alarmed. I suppose a kife or pistol would be easy to conceal. I know some hunters carry pistols as a back up, but this was not a hunter. Since Clint never mentioned seeing a large, obvious hunting type weapon, the suspect most likely did have something small like a knife or pistol.

It most definately was a perfect crime in the sense that Holly was abducted without a trace never to be seen again with not a clue to go on. Now, I wouldn't argue if someone said it was unintentionally perfect, but none the less it couldn't have gotten anymore perfect as far as how the abduction went.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

It most definately was a perfect crime in the sense that Holly was abducted without a trace never to be seen again with not a clue to go on. Now, I wouldn't argue if someone said it was unintentionally perfect, but none the less it couldn't have gotten anymore perfect as far as how the abduction went.

I disagree then because there are clues although much has not been disclosed to the public. There was a witness, etc. I am actually surprised this case has not been solved as it is so rare to have a witness and to have the cops on the scene so quickly.

To me for a crime to be a perfect crime it has to be pulled off as planned. Im sure the suspect did not plan to be seen, for example... Also, again, we do not know what type of crime this was really intended to be. Say it was intended to be a robbery... not perfect. Intended to be something against Clint... not perfect.

Perhaps a lucky crime though...

 

[telemag]

I disagree then because there are clues although much has not been disclosed to the public. There was a witness, etc. I am actually surprised this case has not been solved as it is so rare to have a witness and to have the cops on the scene so quickly.

To me for a crime to be a perfect crime it has to be pulled off as planned. Im sure the suspect did not plan to be seen, for example... Also, again, we do not know what type of crime this was really intended to be. Say it was intended to be a robbery... not perfect. Intended to be something against Clint... not perfect.

Perhaps a lucky crime though...

Perhaps a lucky crime. The clues are worthless and there is no evidence that this was intended to be any other type of crime than what has actually occured which is Holly was taken.

 

[Frogzilla]

Could we all agree that luck is the residue of design? And could we also agree that luck has two directions, good and bad? This abduction seems to have a mixture of the two. I do no think it is accurate to portray this crime as being all luck or being perfect in any sense of the word. Also, there was never a more false statement made than clues are worthless. Clues are never worthless. The people analyzing them may be worthless thinkers, but any clue is better than no clue. Right?

 

[cluciano63]

Could we all agree that luck is the residue of design? And could we also agree that luck has two directions, good and bad? This abduction seems to have a mixture of the two. I do no think it is accurate to portray this crime as being all luck or being perfect in any sense of the word. Also, there was never a more false statement made than clues are worthless. Clues are never worthless. The people analyzing them may be worthless thinkers, but any clue is better than no clue. Right?

Well, I mostly agree, but the location of the lunch pail does not seem to have been useful after all these months...Holly was not located nearby. I suppose it is possible that LE has some unknown DNA from the item...which may or may not prove useful in the future. Not useful, if no suspect is ever found, or the person is not in any data base, for example and never commits/gets caught for another crime that would put him into one. JMO

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Could we all agree that luck is the residue of design? And could we also agree that luck has two directions, good and bad? This abduction seems to have a mixture of the two. I do no think it is accurate to portray this crime as being all luck or being perfect in any sense of the word. Also, there was never a more false statement made than clues are worthless. Clues are never worthless. The people analyzing them may be worthless thinkers, but any clue is better than no clue. Right?

Yeah I would agree. Very well put. Even fake clues have some value once you understand their role in the scheme of things.

 

[cluciano63]

Yeah I would agree. Very well put. Even fake clues have some value once you understand their role in the scheme of things.

That is assuming this case is ever solved...IMO. Not sure of the value of anything, unless that happens, or a suspect is at least charged.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

That is assuming this case is ever solved...IMO. Not sure of the value of anything, unless that happens, or a suspect is at least charged.

If that were the way LE, investigators, etc. looked at a case no one would ever solve anything.

You can't say a clue or potential clue has no value until the case is solved. Thats like looking back at all of the evidence with hindsight saying ok now I see where X and Y and Z fit into the scheme of things.

 

[cluciano63]

If that were the way LE, investigators, etc. looked at a case no one would ever solve anything.

You can't say a clue or potential clue has no value until the case is solved. Thats like looking back at all of the evidence with hindsight saying ok now I see where X and Y and Z fit into the scheme of things.

What I mean to say is that sometimes clues point to a suspect, or to the location of the victim, and that does not seem to be the case here. So whatever they may have gahtered, IMO, may only have value if they find a suspect at some point; in the meantime, they are just items that have been found, not really helping them to point to a suspect, apparently. Even if LE had tire tracks going away from the logging road, for instance, the tracks would be a clue, but not one of value right now unless they have something to match it up to, and we don't know that they have any such thing.

 

[Frogzilla]

What I mean to say is that sometimes clues point to a suspect, or to the location of the victim, and that does not seem to be the case here. So whatever they may have gahtered, IMO, may only have value if they find a suspect at some point; in the meantime, they are just items that have been found, not really helping them to point to a suspect, apparently. Even if LE had tire tracks going away from the logging road, for instance, the tracks would be a clue, but not one of value right now unless they have something to match it up to, and we don't know that they have any such thing.

Really, how often do clues point investigators right at a suspect or a body in MP case? It is called an investigation for a reason, so I do not think it is fair to say clues are worthless when you don't even know what clues there really are. How do we know that the evidence gathered hasn't led LE to know who camo man is? The bottom line is knowing who camo man is and being able to do something about it are vastly different.
I honestly believe proving who camo man is will be 1000x easier than actually getting a grand jury to indict him without proving what happened to HB, I kind of feel that is where this case is now. LE (TBI, FBI,other state and federal agencies) have not focused on the Darden/Parsons community for 8 months because they like the local doughnuts. Really think about this, how much money and time has been spent on this investigation? This is what LE does and they know at the end of the day they have to answer for their actions (maybe not to the public, but certainly to their department), so do we really think they are focusing on that community, using time and resources, just to make it look like they are doing something when there are many other crimes that require their attention?
When it comes to physical evidence, without a slam dunk piece of evidence like a murder weapon with the suspects DNA on it, any evidence usually becomes more the sum of its parts, not just the individual items. This case is a mess, but IMO even if they don't have a slam dunk piece of evidence, it will still be possible to convict. CB eye witness testimony is also going to be crucial, for all of the contradictions in his story, the actual details of what he observed between HB and camo man has been left very obscured, the garage sequence and seeing her walk away. Those are the two bits of CB account that can place camo man at the residence with HB. If HB and camo man walk away and HB is never seen again, proving who camo man is and having proof that HB met with foul play will be enough to secure a prosecution.
So yes, I do believe ANY clues left behind are useful, it just depends how you interpret it and what you are able to do with it in the end.

 

[cluciano63]

Really, how often do clues point investigators right at a suspect or a body in MP case? It is called an investigation for a reason, so I do not think it is fair to say clues are worthless when you don't even know what clues there really are. How do we know that the evidence gathered hasn't led LE to know who camo man is? The bottom line is knowing who camo man is and being able to do something about it are vastly different.
I honestly believe proving who camo man is will be 1000x easier than actually getting a grand jury to indict him without proving what happened to HB, I kind of feel that is where this case is now. LE (TBI, FBI,other state and federal agencies) have not focused on the Darden/Parsons community for 8 months because they like the local doughnuts. Really think about this, how much money and time has been spent on this investigation? This is what LE does and they know at the end of the day they have to answer for their actions (maybe not to the public, but certainly to their department), so do we really think they are focusing on that community, using time and resources, just to make it look like they are doing something when there are many other crimes that require their attention?
When it comes to physical evidence, without a slam dunk piece of evidence like a murder weapon with the suspects DNA on it, any evidence usually becomes more the sum of its parts, not just the individual items. This case is a mess, but IMO even if they don't have a slam dunk piece of evidence, it will still be possible to convict. CB eye witness testimony is also going to be crucial, for all of the contradictions in his story, the actual details of what he observed between HB and camo man has been left very obscured, the garage sequence and seeing her walk away. Those are the two bits of CB account that can place camo man at the residence with HB. If HB and camo man walk away and HB is never seen again, proving who camo man is and having proof that HB met with foul play will be enough to secure a prosecution.
So yes, I do believe ANY clues left behind are useful, it just depends how you interpret it and what you are able to do with it in the end.

I never said anything was "worthless"...just that they are not always helpful or useful unless they have a suspect to match them to. And if they had prints of someone on the lunch bag, for example, I think that would be enough for a suspect to be named, JMO.

 

[katydid23]

I disagree then because there are clues although much has not been disclosed to the public. There was a witness, etc. I am actually surprised this case has not been solved as it is so rare to have a witness and to have the cops on the scene so quickly.

To me for a crime to be a perfect crime it has to be pulled off as planned. Im sure the suspect did not plan to be seen, for example... Also, again, we do not know what type of crime this was really intended to be. Say it was intended to be a robbery... not perfect. Intended to be something against Clint... not perfect.

Perhaps a lucky crime though...

Yes, there was a witness, but the perps were lucky that this witness's first reaction was to call his mom, rather than to load his gun and go outside and ask questions himself. imoo

 

[Wonless]

My opinions only, no facts here:

If I am way off on any of my calendar dates, please let me know. Also I would like to know if cell tower coverage is definitely available throughout the region. Anyway, I am considering a hypothesis that the original ground searches for Holly Bobo fell into two categories: 1) earlier searches based upon credible tips or serendipitous discoveries of evidence, and 2) later searches based upon analyzed phone records.

It has occurred to me that although Holly Bobo was kidnapped on April 13, the search of the area just north of her house (intersection of Swan Johnson Road and 5 Forks Road) was conducted on or about April 23. But this is the first place I would have searched! So- why the delay? Perhaps it took a week or so to acquire and analyze Holly’s and/or someone elses cell phone records and it was determined that her phone pinged in the intersection area.



But the “significant find”, variously described as located at “Holladay Road”, “Highway 69”, “Eaton Plant off Highway 641”, “Kolpack”, the “Tennessee Technology Center where Holly attended school”, and the “Tri-County Concrete property at 100 Eaton St.” was also searched around the same time (April 24?). This is where the cell phone and/or SIM card was rumored to have been found (interestingly it was called a ‘card’ early-on in the rumor mill). Could this be the location of another ping from Holly’s phone or even a cell phone call or ping from the perpetrator?

Note that the Bible Hill (Gooch Road?) search was conducted much earlier, around April 16th. This makes sense, if the white book bag (that is what I think it is) was found by a local landowner on April 15th. The much-rumored duct tape, if it exists, would also have been found here, but possibly a day or two into searching this area. Also, note that the Natchez Trace State Park search began at least as early as April 18, also possibly prior to obtaining and fully analyzing phone records. This search may have been based upon a credible tip.

I have tried and tried to account for the supposed distribution of physical evidence in the Holly Bobo case, and still come up short. Let us assume that Holly was carrying a book-bag on her shoulder that held her lunch, books, pocketbook-purse, and other items and was kidnapped going to her car. If it turns out that Holly was actually wearing a backpack, I will be VERY disappointed by the prior reporting, because I will need to revise this part of my post and change some of my theories.

For the sake of argument, let us also assume Holly had a cell phone with her. Would the cell phone also be in her book-bag? I doubt it, because people today are yakking on their cells 24 hours a day. She would have had her phone in her hand or a pocket, with the intent of having/placing it within easy reach during her drive to school and not needing to rummage through her book-bag for it.

I am inclined from the sum of the official and unofficial information to presume that the book-bag story is true and that this item was found north of Bible Hill on Gooch Road(?) and with less confidence, that Holly's phone and/or the SIM card from her phone was found at the second (and later) location.

On the face of it, this all seems counter-intuitive. Why would the abductor lead Holly into the woods behind her home and not make her ditch the book-bag immediately? Now, fast-forward to Bible Hill/Gooch Road. The abductor is either WITH Holly or WITHOUT Holly at this time. 1) If Holly was still with the abductor, why risk being caught while dumping her book-bag on private property? For crying out loud- a much greater piece of evidence (Holly) would still remain with the abductor. 2) If Holly was no longer with the abductor- why was the book-bag not discarded with Holly at an earlier time? A perfect crime could theoretically have been pulled-off, but the abductor zoomed off with her book-bag in the vehicle? There seems to be something curious about the location of the book-bag.

The cell phone/SIM card, if it exists, is particularly important. If the abductor is going to dump the evidence (book-bag), they would certainly obtain the cell phone from the victim beforehand and dump it at the same time, if not before. Even if Holly is still with the abductor at Bible Hill/Gooch Road, the abductor would demand the phone at or before that time and dump all of the stuff together. In this day and age, it is unlikely that a perpetrator would remain unaware that Holly has a cell phone and that cell phones can be traced in certain ways.

As I indicated in earlier posts, I believe that the Swan Johnson-5 Forks Roads search area was a good choice, but I would have preferred to continue the search successively further ESE.

I think you are right on target, I think its entirely probable that the book bag evidence is planted, but I think there is another senerio that is also possible, and that is that the perp leaves the bobo residence in a hurry, possibly because he is alerted by CB..and thus intially has holly in his vehicle front seat with him in an unsecured way for travelling in populated areas, so he takes a series of back roads through the bible hill area and ends up on gooch rd. IMO this is about 10 mins after he leaves the bobo residence..He then stops and secures HB and hides her/say in the trunk or in the back of a pickup truck, and he doesn't know whats in the bag/backpack so he doesn't want her to be alone or risk somebody seeing it in the front seat with him if he is stopped by the police, so he tosses it quickly on the side of the road. Gooch road is pretty isolated spot from the google earth images..so IMO he would feel pretty safe not being seem, and at this point this is the last risk he is taking, and its just to sevure his load and make himself and his vehicle look as normal as possible. I also do thing he might have kept the phone that he could moniter the incoming calls and texts, at least intially.

 

[telemag]

I think you are right on target, I think its entirely probable that the book bag evidence is planted, but I think there is another senerio that is also possible, and that is that the perp leaves the bobo residence in a hurry, possibly because he is alerted by CB..and thus intially has holly in his vehicle front seat with him in an unsecured way for travelling in populated areas, so he takes a series of back roads through the bible hill area and ends up on gooch rd. IMO this is about 10 mins after he leaves the bobo residence..He then stops and secures HB and hides her/say in the trunk or in the back of a pickup truck, and he doesn't know whats in the bag/backpack so he doesn't want her to be alone or risk somebody seeing it in the front seat with him if he is stopped by the police, so he tosses it quickly on the side of the road. Gooch road is pretty isolated spot from the google earth images..so IMO he would feel pretty safe not being seem, and at this point this is the last risk he is taking, and its just to sevure his load and make himself and his vehicle look as normal as possible. I also do thing he might have kept the phone that he could moniter the incoming calls and texts, at least intially.

Thing is according to CB the perp and Holly did not leave in a hurry, they walked into the woods together. If this guy knew anything about the Bobo family and heard anyone in the house wouldn't he be expecting a welcome from and nice loaded shot gun? Also, assuming he had no idea who these people were and heard someone in the house I don't think he would have calmly walked away, especially with Holly in tow.

 

[Wonless]

Thing is according to CB the perp and Holly did not leave in a hurry, they walked into the woods together. If this guy knew anything about the Bobo family and heard anyone in the house wouldn't he be expecting a welcome from and nice loaded shot gun? Also, assuming he had no idea who these people were and heard someone in the house I don't think he would have calmly walked away, especially with Holly in tow.

I think either way its pure speculation..IMO it would be more natural to start walking away slowly trying to act normal and not attract any attention..I just think its human nature that if you run, someone will chase you..so I would think you walk till you know it time to run.

 

[cfreyja23]

A few thoughts in general response to the most recent comments:
1) planting evidence, to me, points to a very young and inexperienced perpetrator. What a stupid, arrogant, thing to do.
2) is there any chance he was carrying a BB gun? Could he have shot her with it with a) making a lot of noise or b) seriously injuring her?
3) I think the biggest thing holding back the investigation is the possiblity that it was a local who owns (or whose family owns) a large tract of land. LE can't search these areas without probable cause, and I doubt many locals have agreed to searches. So if LE thinks a local kidnapped her and possibly buried her somewhere on a piece of land, why have there not been more helicopter searches? I know it's expensive. Maybe they're worried about tipping someone off?

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Frogzilla, telemag, and Wonless- I think we are mostly on the same page regarding the Holly Bobo case. The alternate scenario described by Wonless regarding the white book-bag is possible. But I still believe that the book-bag should have been left at Holly's property. Remember, the concept of the book-bag is only a personal theory of mine; I do not factually know what Holly carried her stuff in.

College woman oft-times use such a book-bag, and commonly have the strap only over the right shoulder and not cross-anchored over the head with the strap along the left side of the neck. The right-shoulder carry would be especially true for someone walking only a few tens of feet to their car. No need to anchor the book-bag. This is my mental image of the situation. The moment Holly was confronted I would expect the book-bag fell to the ground or was dropped to the ground.

The book-bag was not essential to commission of a successful crime, unless this was a robbery. The book-bag should have remained on Holly's property. But it didn't remain there, instead ended up miles away.

 

[~n/t~]

Speaking of book bags, was a description ever released of what Holly was carrying? If she had a book bag, what did it look like? What about her cell phone? Was she wearing any jewelry when she disappeared? Necklace, rings, watch, bracelet?

This is the flyer I found online for the truck campaign. It really doesn't say much on there. :waitasec:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-j-BzhHllW...erica+campaign+poster+for+trucks+Facebook.JPG

 

[~n/t~]

This is the FBI poster

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo

 

[~n/t~]

For those who believe Holly may have been threatened before she was abducted.

Here is a quote from Clint. This may have been a slip. Did they tell Clint later that she was threatened? If so, why?

“At the time, I just seen the two walking toward the woods. He wasn't leading her, he wasn't dragging her. They were walking simultaneously toward the woods. And then later come to find out she had been threatened I mean, she definitely went into the woods against her will,” he said.

He corrects himself and adds, "I mean". There is no way he could have known she was threatened whilst she was walking with the perp. Yes, perhaps the blood was an indication that something wasn't right but remember he thought the blood was turkey blood.

http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-holly...-she-vanished-20110722,0,6800717.story?page=2