TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[Cryptic]

I don't understand the point of calling this shooting a hate crime. The shooter is dead so there is no "crime" that can be prosecuted.

The fact that the perpetrator is dead does not negate the motive for the crime.

For example, The 'Pulse' rampage shooter is also dead. But.... that does not change the fact that he committed a hate crime. Orlando nightclub shooting - Wikipedia\

 

[Sundog]

I don't understand the point of calling this shooting a hate crime. The shooter is dead so there is no "crime" that can be prosecuted.

From the U.S. Department of Justice website -

It is critical to report hate crimes not only to show support and get help for victims, but also to send a clear message that the community will not tolerate these kinds of crimes.

Reporting hate crimes allows communities and law enforcement to fully understand the scope of the problem in a community and put resources toward preventing and addressing attacks based on bias and hate.

---

In additon,

Hate crimes have a broader effect than most other kinds of crime. Hate crime victims include not only the crime’s immediate target but also others like them. Hate crimes affect families, communities, and at times, the entire nation.

Learn About Hate Crimes | HATECRIMES | Department of Justice

www.justice.gov

 

[Sundog]

The fact that the perpetrator is dead does not negate the motive for the crime.

For example, The 'Pulse' rampage shooter is also dead. But.... that does not change the fact that he committed a hate crime. Orlando nightclub shooting - Wikipedia\

I agree with your post, but note that the post you are responding to was not written by me, although your quoted post (above post) has my name on it - and it was posted by someone else. No big deal, just for the record.

 

[MyBelle]

From the U.S. Department of Justice website -

It is critical to report hate crimes not only to show support and get help for victims, but also to send a clear message that the community will not tolerate these kinds of crimes.

Reporting hate crimes allows communities and law enforcement to fully understand the scope of the problem in a community and put resources toward preventing and addressing attacks based on bias and hate.

---

In additon,

Hate crimes have a broader effect than most other kinds of crime. Hate crime victims include not only the crime’s immediate target but also others like them. Hate crimes affect families, communities, and at times, the entire nation.

Learn About Hate Crimes | HATECRIMES | Department of Justice

www.justice.gov

So far, this shooting has not been labeled as a hate crime. It is pointless because the shooter is dead, imo.

 

[Ontario Mom]

BBM. Demand answers from whom? The FBI BAU is examining the manifesto, journals, etc. to get a better understanding of the shooter's frame of mind but I think their goal is prevention of future tragedies. For the public, this is just another horrific mass shooting tragedy for the victims and their loved ones.

I'm not entirely sure the Christian families & loved ones of these victims feel that way at all, that it's "just" another mass shooting. Christian people, in a Christian facility, minding their own business and gunned down by an evil person that blasted her way into the building for that very purpose.

Every Christian I know, without exception, considers this a hate crime.
Regardless of whether it's ever classified one, or not.

 

[Sundog]

I'm not entirely sure the Christian families & loved ones of these victims feel that way at all, that it's "just" another mass shooting. Christian people, in a Christian facility, minding their own business and gunned down by an evil person that blasted her way into the building for that very purpose.

Every Christian I know, without exception, considers this a hate crime.
Regardless of whether it's ever classified one, or not.

Well said.

 

[MyBelle]

The fact that the perpetrator is dead does not negate the motive for the crime.

For example, The 'Pulse' rampage shooter is also dead. But.... that does not change the fact that he committed a hate crime. Orlando nightclub shooting - Wikipedia\

There was evidence the Pulse shooter chose it at random. The shooter's wife was found not guilty because she didn't know his plans. The shooter in this case had other schools on her list.

But during the trial of Omar Mateen’s widow, Noor Salman, all forensic evidence suggested that up until the moment he turned into the Pulse parking lot, Mateen had been considering other venues, rejecting them because they were more heavily guarded. In their closing statement, government prosecutors admitted that there was no evidence to suggest that Mateen knew that Pulse was a gay club.

What really happened that night at Pulse

The attack on the nightclub has long been seen as a hate crime directed at the LGBTQ community. But all evidence says the gunman chose it at random.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Eli9]

I just opened a new thread on this case so we can follow developments there.

Thanks for opening the new thread!

 

[MyBelle]

I'm not entirely sure the Christian families & loved ones of these victims feel that way at all, that it's "just" another mass shooting. Christian people, in a Christian facility, minding their own business and gunned down by an evil person that blasted her way into the building for that very purpose.

Every Christian I know, without exception, considers this a hate crime.
Regardless of whether it's ever classified one, or not.

I think the loved ones of school shooting victims are devastated beyond measure whether the shooting is ruled a hate crime or not. Sandy Hook parents gave interviews to the news media which were heartbreaking to watch.

 

[housewife]

I wasn't aware of that about Medicaid.

The shooter in this case was receiving some kind of therapy according to LE. Somebody was paying for it.

Did you mean AH or Whitworth was getting therapy? I'm curious about AH's therapy because I didn't read anything about that...
edit: moved info to another thread regarding Whitworth

 

[housewife]

I'm not entirely sure the Christian families & loved ones of these victims feel that way at all, that it's "just" another mass shooting. Christian people, in a Christian facility, minding their own business and gunned down by an evil person that blasted her way into the building for that very purpose.

Every Christian I know, without exception, considers this a hate crime.
Regardless of whether it's ever classified one, or not.

Why did AH travel so far if she only had a beef with Christianity? There are two churches much closer to her home. Just curious.
Would this still be a hate crime against Christianity if we found out AH still considered herself a Christian while committing un-Christ-like crimes?

 

[Cool Cats]

Why did AH travel so far if she only had a beef with Christianity? There are two churches much closer to her home. Just curious.
Would this still be a hate crime against Christianity if we found out AH still considered herself a Christian while committing un-Christ-like crimes?

Because she went to this school herself. Note, murderers target their own schools.

 

[MyBelle]

Did you mean AH or Whitworth was getting therapy? I'm curious about AH's therapy because I didn't read anything about that...
edit: moved info to another thread regarding Whitworth

This thread is about AH's shooting.

 

[MyBelle]

Why did AH travel so far if she only had a beef with Christianity? There are two churches much closer to her home. Just curious.
Would this still be a hate crime against Christianity if we found out AH still considered herself a Christian while committing un-Christ-like crimes?

Good point. Police said AH also targeted other locations including two public schools. There are many denominations within the Christian faith with various teachings. My church has ordained females as ministers. Others don't allow it. We really won't know her motive until the manifestos are released.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

She was hate filled, but current information does not suggest a hate crime by legal definition.

Her hate ideology seems to be:

- I am not successful under various definitions. I hate the success of others. Therefore, I destroy success by destroying what is most valuable to the successful (their children).

The above aside, there do not appear to be any indications that the attack targeted a specific group on account of race, religion etc.

The school seems to have been one of many targets under consideration and was selected for shock value, not what it represented nor for the people attending it.

As @Sundog related, however, these indications are based on information available to the public.

Right. Wasn't there a mall that was a possible target?

I think the fact that this was a private school (vs a public school) doesn't make it a hate crime. Hale went there, so it seems like there was an issue with the specific place? I don't know.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I'm not entirely sure the Christian families & loved ones of these victims feel that way at all, that it's "just" another mass shooting. Christian people, in a Christian facility, minding their own business and gunned down by an evil person that blasted her way into the building for that very purpose.

Every Christian I know, without exception, considers this a hate crime.
Regardless of whether it's ever classified one, or not.

I'm a Christian. I don't see it that way.

MOO>

 

[YepperBepper]

Right. Wasn't there a mall that was a possible target?

I think the fact that this was a private school (vs a public school) doesn't make it a hate crime. Hale went there, so it seems like there was an issue with the specific place? I don't know.

LE said she held some type of "resentment" towards the school....

I'm not sure why a mall was on the list, too.

I've moved towards an injustice collector for this killer. I could be wrong. I often am. Imho


Things seem to be changing regarding the norms we have been used to for quite some time regarding mass murderers or those planning mass murders. Generally young white males, or am I incorrect?

Young biological females seem to be stepping up to be mass murderers. I'm thinking of the Kolt case in Florida. An anomaly or a new phenomenon?

 

[JennieM]

TBI director shares new details on The Covenant School shooter's manifesto​

Authorities have yet to release what was written publicly. But TBI director David Rausch did talk candidly about the contents of the manifesto at a Tennessee Sheriffs' Association meeting. Rausch said what police found isn't so much a manifesto spelling out a target but a series of rambling writings indicating no clear motive.

[...]

Rausch told sheriffs that the review so far of the material finds that the killer did not write about specific political, religious or social issues. In fact, a primary focus in the journals is on idolizing those who committed prior school shootings.

She appears to have followed their lead planning for months and acted alone.

Certainly more details will emerge. But at this point, Rausch indicated it does not appear the shooter wrote of any particular agenda regarding politics or to target a specific person or religion. So, for now, a clear motive remains a mystery.

TBI director shares new details on The Covenant School shooter's manifesto

TBI Director David Rausch shared new details about the so-called "manifesto" left behind by The Covenant School shooter. Director Rausch told sheriffs that the writings still reveal no clear motive.

www.newschannel5.com

 

[YepperBepper]

TBI director shares new details on The Covenant School shooter's manifesto​

Authorities have yet to release what was written publicly. But TBI director David Rausch did talk candidly about the contents of the manifesto at a Tennessee Sheriffs' Association meeting. Rausch said what police found isn't so much a manifesto spelling out a target but a series of rambling writings indicating no clear motive.

[...]

Rausch told sheriffs that the review so far of the material finds that the killer did not write about specific political, religious or social issues. In fact, a primary focus in the journals is on idolizing those who committed prior school shootings.

She appears to have followed their lead planning for months and acted alone.

Certainly more details will emerge. But at this point, Rausch indicated it does not appear the shooter wrote of any particular agenda regarding politics or to target a specific person or religion. So, for now, a clear motive remains a mystery.

TBI director shares new details on The Covenant School shooter's manifesto

TBI Director David Rausch shared new details about the so-called "manifesto" left behind by The Covenant School shooter. Director Rausch told sheriffs that the writings still reveal no clear motive.

www.newschannel5.com

Quite odd. Did it for kicks? No reference of bullying. No religious references. No political references. No cause. Just wanted to go down in infamy.

Just wanted to take out some children, I guess. Imho

 

[MyBelle]

TBI director shares new details on The Covenant School shooter's manifesto​

Authorities have yet to release what was written publicly. But TBI director David Rausch did talk candidly about the contents of the manifesto at a Tennessee Sheriffs' Association meeting. Rausch said what police found isn't so much a manifesto spelling out a target but a series of rambling writings indicating no clear motive.

[...]

Rausch told sheriffs that the review so far of the material finds that the killer did not write about specific political, religious or social issues. In fact, a primary focus in the journals is on idolizing those who committed prior school shootings.

She appears to have followed their lead planning for months and acted alone.

Certainly more details will emerge. But at this point, Rausch indicated it does not appear the shooter wrote of any particular agenda regarding politics or to target a specific person or religion. So, for now, a clear motive remains a mystery.

TBI director shares new details on The Covenant School shooter's manifesto

TBI Director David Rausch shared new details about the so-called "manifesto" left behind by The Covenant School shooter. Director Rausch told sheriffs that the writings still reveal no clear motive.

www.newschannel5.com

BBM. I think that is exactly what they found and releasing it could result in more violence and threats to public safety.