TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

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  • #421
LE said she held some type of "resentment" towards the school....

I'm not sure why a mall was on the list, too.

I've moved towards an injustice collector for this killer. I could be wrong. I often am. Imho


Things seem to be changing regarding the norms we have been used to for quite some time regarding mass murderers or those planning mass murders. Generally young white males, or am I incorrect?

Young biological females seem to be stepping up to be mass murderers. I'm thinking of the Kolt case in Florida. An anomaly or a new phenomenon?

1982 to 3/2023
Characteristic & Number of incidents
Male
135
Female 4
Male & female 2
Unknown/not released 0
 
  • #422
BBM. I think that is exactly what they found and releasing it could result in more violence and threats to public safety.
This is why talking about the documents while holding them in secret is a real harm. Either release the manifesto, etc., or withhold the doc(s) until a court rules on whether it has to be made public.

Don't comment on it without at least some verbatim remarks written by the shooter to give yourself credibility. It is a very poor choice by an LE official who should know better.
JMO
 
  • #423
This is why talking about the documents while holding them in secret is a real harm. Either release the manifesto, etc., or withhold the doc(s) until a court rules on whether it has to be made public.

Don't comment on it without at least some verbatim remarks written by the shooter to give yourself credibility. It is a very poor choice by an LE official who should know better.
JMO
Agree. His statement is not official, and who knows how familiar he is or isn't with all the information firsthand. He could be just repeating what he has heard secondhand, for all we know.

Waiting to see them for myself, without redactions, until then inconclusive.
 
  • #424
This is why talking about the documents while holding them in secret is a real harm. Either release the manifesto, etc., or withhold the doc(s) until a court rules on whether it has to be made public.

Don't comment on it without at least some verbatim remarks written by the shooter to give yourself credibility. It is a very poor choice by an LE official who should know better.
JMO
What is the harm and to whom?

LE has control over the Manifestos which are not public documents. If LE decides not to release them because of public safety concerns, I seriously doubt a court will force them to do so.
 
  • #425
Agree. His statement is not official, and who knows how familiar he is or isn't with all the information firsthand. He could be just repeating what he has heard secondhand, for all we know.

Waiting to see them for myself, without redactions, until then inconclusive.
His statement is official. He is the Director of the TBI. Of course he is well aware of every aspect of the investigation. His comments were made to a meeting with other law enforcement.

But TBI director David Rausch did talk candidly about the contents of the manifesto at a Tennessee Sheriffs' Association meeting.

TBI director shares new details on The Covenant School shooter's manifesto
 
  • #426
His statement is official. He is the Director of the TBI. Of course he is well aware of every aspect of the investigation. His comments were made to a meeting with other law enforcement.

But TBI director David Rausch did talk candidly about the contents of the manifesto at a Tennessee Sheriffs' Association meeting.

TBI director shares new details on The Covenant School shooter's manifesto
I don't think so. He was speaking to a Sheriff's Association, not making an official statement on the motive or lack thereof of the shooter. Hence the statement "so far . . . " indicating that the review is still ongoing.

The FBI will likely make the official statement when the investigation concludes. I doubt that it will be the TBI that reports back to Congress on whether or not this was a hate crime, I suspect it will be the AG or the FBI, or both.
 
  • #427
I don't think so. He was speaking to a Sheriff's Association, not making an official statement on the motive or lack thereof of the shooter. Hence the statement "so far . . . " indicating that the review is still ongoing.

The FBI will likely make the official statement when the investigation concludes. I doubt that it will be the TBI that reports back to Congress on whether or not this was a hate crime, I suspect it will be the AG or the FBI, or both.
So you think the Director of the TBI wasn't telling the truth? The review might be ongoing but if he says there is no evidence of motive so far, I seriously doubt that will change. The FBI isn't going to make any statement because it isn't their jurisdiction, imo.

The TN AG has made no public statement about the shooting so far other than to condemn the threats of violence being directed at political figures:

“Regardless of any differences of opinion, though, as a dad and as an attorney general I cannot tolerate this attack against him and his family,” Attorney General Skrmetti said in a public statement.

 
  • #428
  • #429
This is why talking about the documents while holding them in secret is a real harm. Either release the manifesto, etc., or withhold the doc(s) until a court rules on whether it has to be made public.

Don't comment on it without at least some verbatim remarks written by the shooter to give yourself credibility. It is a very poor choice by an LE official who should know better.
JMO
Yes. I agree.

Personally, I doubt what he said (based on other mass shootings).
 
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  • #430

TBI director shares new details on The Covenant School shooter's manifesto

Authorities have yet to release what was written publicly. But TBI director David Rausch did talk candidly about the contents of the manifesto at a Tennessee Sheriffs' Association meeting. Rausch said what police found isn't so much a manifesto spelling out a target but a series of rambling writings indicating no clear motive.

[...]

Rausch told sheriffs that the review so far of the material finds that the killer did not write about specific political, religious or social issues. In fact, a primary focus in the journals is on idolizing those who committed prior school shootings.

She appears to have followed their lead planning for months and acted alone.

Certainly more details will emerge. But at this point, Rausch indicated it does not appear the shooter wrote of any particular agenda regarding politics or to target a specific person or religion. So, for now, a clear motive remains a mystery.

I guess I just don't understand how feeling wronged (or unhappy or bullied or whatever) jumps to idolizing school shooters and then jumps to actually doing it. What does doing this DO for the person? Make them feel powerful?! Make them the star in their own action movie? I truly don't understand at all.

I know there isn't a clear answer, and it certainly isn't a simple one. But for some reason people in the US seem to make this jump where people in other countries do not. ???????
 
  • #431
I guess I just don't understand how feeling wronged (or unhappy or bullied or whatever) jumps to idolizing school shooters and then jumps to actually doing it. What does doing this DO for the person? Make them feel powerful?! Make them the star in their own action movie? I truly don't understand at all.

I know there isn't a clear answer, and it certainly isn't a simple one. But for some reason people in the US seem to make this jump where people in other countries do not. ???????
People do it other places, too, just not with such heartbreaking regularity as in the US.

For example, I would loop the 2011 Norway attacks in with school shootings, even though it technically wasn't a school, but a summer camp.

MOO
 
  • #432
I guess I just don't understand how feeling wronged (or unhappy or bullied or whatever) jumps to idolizing school shooters and then jumps to actually doing it. What does doing this DO for the person? Make them feel powerful?! Make them the star in their own action movie? I truly don't understand at all.

I know there isn't a clear answer, and it certainly isn't a simple one. But for some reason people in the US seem to make this jump where people in other countries do not. ???????
I think it's because in the US there is easy access to guns, when in many other countries there is not.
 
  • #433
I guess I just don't understand how feeling wronged (or unhappy or bullied or whatever) jumps to idolizing school shooters and then jumps to actually doing it. What does doing this DO for the person? Make them feel powerful?! Make them the star in their own action movie?
I would say yes and yes. That's it exactly.

When life feels too hard, some retreat into fantasy.

(It's not actually hard at all. She had everything a human needs to survive, served up to her on a platter).

DBM

ETA: I think it's obvious there is a connection between violence and negative/aggressive attitudes. One could ask, where do those negative/ aggressive attitudes come from?

JMO
 
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  • #434
I would say yes and yes. That's it exactly.

When life feels too hard, some retreat into fantasy.

(It's not actually hard at all. She had everything a human needs to survive, served up to her on a platter).

I'm surprised people on here would believe a senior law enforcement official is wrong or even lying.

Perhaps consider whether such an attitude might contribute to this kind of situation.

JMO
I agree with the fantasy part. Some folks go there never to return.

Bbm

I don't think my desire for hard copy information contributes to school shootings. I don't think my feel that this "senior official's" vagueness contributes to a person shooting 3 children and 3 adults. That culpability lies with the shooter and not those looking for answers and real 1st hand information.

Again...IMHO, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Maybe those who would rather not view these documents and get real answers contribute to this situation?

Imho
 
  • #435
I agree with the fantasy part. Some folks go there never to return.

Bbm

I don't think my desire for hard copy information contributes to school shootings. I don't think my feel that this "senior official's" vagueness contributes to a person shooting 3 children and 3 adults. That culpability lies with the shooter and not those looking for answers and real 1st hand information.

Again...IMHO, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Maybe those who would rather not view these documents and get real answers contribute to this situation?

Imho
I apologize for that somewhat inflammatory part of my post, I deleted it shortly after and rephrased.

I'm not commenting about rational ideas that calm, thoughtful people engage in, but more about primitive (as in, literally, parts of our brains that are similar to our earliest ancestors) ideas that produce someone's underlying emotions and personality traits.

"It’s kind of like throwing a temper tantrum–only with automatic weapons,” says Lewis.


Neuroscientists are trying to map these things to different parts of the brain, but they all keep disagreeing with each other, so I'm not convinced that's a productive approach. But I find it thought provoking, none-the-less.

JMO
 
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  • #436

Hundreds attend funeral of custodian killed in Nashville school shooting


Mike Hill, 61, remembered as ‘big and strong but soft and tender’, one of six killed at Covenant school in Nashville last month.

Hill had seven children and and 14 grandchildren. He liked spending time with his family and cooking, according to an obituary. Bachmann recalled that Hill would often bring him freshly baked chocolate chip cookies. For special occasions, he might bring a pecan or chess pie.

“He led me into temptation. He did not deliver me from it,” Bachmann joked.
Bachmann said tragedies like the shooting evoke many emotions besides grief, including anger and confusion.

“People want change. They want action. They want leadership. They want something decisive to happen so that this sort of thing doesn’t happen again. Of course we all want that.”

Bachmann said he did not have answers, but called on those assembled: “Love one another and we will have the kind of world we want. And we’ll have peace like a river and righteousness like the waves of the sea.”


 
  • #437

Below is a link to the redacted search warrant return for items LE found at shooters' home, including the following:

"... they seized a cache of electronics there, including six laptops, seven cellphones, a tablet and 11 computer drives. They also found 20 journals throughout the basement, 14 videos and a Tennessee man's driver's license in a bookcase along with photographs of the Covenant School, where the killer was once a student, and five yearbooks from there."


Edited to add: She kept a lot of these items in her bedroom, many under the bed, and also kept items listed in the basement of her parents' home.
 
  • #438
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  • #439
I apologize for that somewhat inflammatory part of my post, I deleted it shortly after and rephrased.

I'm not commenting about rational ideas that calm, thoughtful people engage in, but more about primitive (as in, literally, parts of our brains that are similar to our earliest ancestors) ideas that produce someone's underlying emotions and personality traits.

"It’s kind of like throwing a temper tantrum–only with automatic weapons,” says Lewis.


Neuroscientists are trying to map these things to different parts of the brain, but they all keep disagreeing with each other, so I'm not convinced that's a productive approach. But I find it thought provoking, none-the-less.

JMO
Thank you. Apologies back at you. I felt the need to defend my position, particularly about wanting hard information, with all due respect. I know that somehow, with this case as a starting point, the release of information has become a debatable issue. I don't ever recall interested parties requesting LESS information be distributed about a criminal case, especially one that involves the slaughter of children and the violent interruption of the sanctity of what society considers a "safe space". We, as a society, are generally demanding answers....and I think that's a healthy way to respond to things like this. Rational review of all information instead of knee jerk emotional decisions. Imho

The neuroscience angle is very interesting. Unfortunately, they will be doing the same thing we are doing now...discovering after the fact.

It would be really helpful to be able to identify that "one in a million" person who will cause great harm. I suspect many have the brain abnormalities of a sociopath, or who have behavior traits of a serial killer or who have emotional disturbances that make them much more succeptible to radicalization...but even in this assumed small group, you have an extremely minute group that do cause harm. What makes a person a Ted Bundy? A Hale? A Cruz? A Mohammed Atta?

Until we have that answer we can only look for signs and symptoms because we have no idea what the disease is.

Imho
 
  • #440

Below is a link to the redacted search warrant return for items LE found at shooters' home, including the following:

"... they seized a cache of electronics there, including six laptops, seven cellphones, a tablet and 11 computer drives. They also found 20 journals throughout the basement, 14 videos and a Tennessee man's driver's license in a bookcase along with photographs of the Covenant School, where the killer was once a student, and five yearbooks from there."


Edited to add: She kept a lot of these items in her bedroom, many under the bed, and also kept items listed in the basement of her parents' home.
A man's drivers license?
 
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