Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes Are Divorcing

[PAXIMUS]

I think a good place to start is to study SYMBOLISM and what symbols mean, they all have deeper meanings than just some shape and size you see on the surface, a great example is to study (google) the hidden and deeper meaning of the Wizard of Oz, it is not just about a scarecrow, a tin man and a lion, there is a story that is much, much deeper being told in that film and it will blow your mind once you understand it and then watch the film again, you will see it.


When I first read Ron say that a child molester is a child molester because one of the body thetans that were imprisoned in the volcano and killed in the explosion and are now roaming the earth looking for new bodies to inhabit, one of those body thetans was a pedophile perhaps and it has clung on to someones body making them have these compulsions to want to have sex with children, my intellectual curiosity being what it is I wanted to understand that, it took a while but what Ron was really trying to say in his own entertaining and mysterious way (which is how you draw people in) is that perhaps something IN YOUR YOUTH HAPPENED that made you this way and Scientology auditing etc can help you find that past event and work through it thereby curing you of being a pedophile. I am not sure that actually works but in some cases WITH SOME PEOPLE it can indeed help. It isnt for everyone, but THIS is what Scientology in a nutshell really is, forget about DM and TC those are crazy fanatic psychopaths using these teachings for their own profit and sinister purposes. Thats the COS not Scientology.

 

[katydid23]

I moved to the Los Angeles area in 1981. I had never heard of Scientology before moving here. In the 80's I became friends with many people who began to explore Scientology. Most of them were aspiring actors and entertainers. Here is how they were hooked in, and it is still happening the same way:

If you want to take an acting or voice over or modeling class in LA, it is very expensive and you usually need a reference from someone. Some acting classes are 50 to 200 bucks per class. And you need to audition for them.

HOWEVER, there are always ads in various local newspapers for very inexpensive classes, with glowing reports about the great teacher and the great results of the class.
And so lots of aspiring young actors will rush to those inexpensive classes. And then they find out that the class is being taught by a Scientologist and is full of other members and as time goes on, some become indoctrinated.

I saw it happen myself. At first my friends would say, " I don't care, I am not joining Scientology, but this is a good inexpensive class, and I am going to stay in it."

But as time went on, they would be lured by what they 'learned' in the class. If they weren't getting any jobs at auditions, they would be told it was because the casting directors were Scientologists too. And there would be Scientologist Casting Directors coming to the classes as guests, and they would discuss upcoming projects they would be casting.

Meanwhile, the students would be told that their 'personalities' were getting in their way. And perhaps they should sign up for an introductory course to help them in future auditions...

 

[21merc7]

This is in 16 parts, I'm just posting part 1:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScVBJPGeEio&feature=related"](1 of 16) Ex-Scientologist John Duignan Interview - YouTube[/ame]

 

[PAXIMUS]

Magnolia, by PT Anderson. Great film.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0175880/

ETA: Just to clarify, there was no Scientology stuff in the film. That short clip was someone's joke about it being TC's best role b/c he plays himself.

Also if you watch Magnolia VERY closely in several scenes there is a bookcase in the background and most of the books in the bookcase are Scientology books, there is also a clock on the wall in one scene that has the Scientology double cross symbol on it.

 

[katydid23]

I think a good place to start is to study SYMBOLISM and what symbols mean, they all have deeper meanings than just some shape and size you see on the surface, a great example is to study (google) the hidden and deeper meaning of the Wizard of Oz, it is not just about a scarecrow, a tin man and a lion, there is a story that is much, much deeper being told in that film and it will blow your mind once you understand it and then watch the film again, you will see it.


When I first read Ron say that a child molester is a child molester because one of the body thetans that were imprisoned in the volcano and killed in the explosion and are now roaming the earth looking for new bodies to inhabit, one of those body thetans was a pedophile perhaps and it has clung on to someones body making them have these compulsions to want to have sex with children, my intellectual curiosity being what it is I wanted to understand that, it took a while but what Ron was really trying to say in his own entertaining and mysterious way (which is how you draw people in) is that perhaps something IN YOUR YOUTH HAPPENED that made you this way and Scientology auditing etc can help you find that past event and work through it thereby curing you of being a pedophile. I am not sure that actually works but in some cases WITH SOME PEOPLE it can indeed help. It isnt for everyone, but THIS is what Scientology in a nutshell really is, forget about DM and TC those are crazy fanatic psychopaths using these teachings for their own profit and sinister purposes. Thats the COS not Scientology.

I agree that Ron himself was a brilliant man and that the ideas he put forth were fascinating. And in the right hands this might have been a very positive movement. But I think a negative force has taken it over and become greedy and possibly evil. JMO

 

[PAXIMUS]

Suffice to say the study of Scientology not even to practice it just studying it like we have been in this thread is VERY interesting I think we can all agree on that, and there are things I havent even touched yet, its a lot more complex and even more interesting the deeper you go.

Its definitely worth the time to learn about it just from an intellectually curious manner.

Also here is the official SCIENTOLOGY LINGO DICTIONARY, that in itself is a fun study! They have quite an interesting vocabulary apart from our own as English speakers.

http://www.anti-scientologie.ch/dictionary.htm


This is not sanctioned by the church itself but all of the definitions are right on target, I know their lingo well and this is the dictionary you want to study that should it interest you. There are also MANY MANY others on google just google dictionary of scientology terms. I am not sure the COS itself has put one out as they employ thousands of people who do nothing but troll the net and scrub everything COS related.


When I was in the COS doing my project my ultimate objective was to be declared a TYPE 4 PTS which is the highest level of excommunication there is PTS means POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCE meaning anyone who might talk some sense in to a COS member lol. But my journalism professor at the time told me it was important as a journalist to never burn bridges because you may need to go back someday for some reason to get information, so I ROUTED OUT the proper way signing a gag order that I would never talk bad about the church or reveal its inner most sacred secrets, after having gone to law school later I realized that such a gag order means nothing and there is nothing they can do but the point at the time was I didnt "BLOW BASE" which is the term for those who leave on bad terms, walk out or escape without routing out properly so I never did get my official letter to frame on my wall from COS that I was a TYPE 4 PTS and I would never again be able to have any contact with the COS or any of its members. Shucks.

 

[prima.facie]

Pax.....your knowledge on this subject and the fact you take out time in your life to share what you know is very much appreciated, FWIW.....

 

[Steely Dan]

Have to read subtitles here:

Inside a cult - Scientology - MUST WATCH - Part 1 - YouTube

Inside a cult - Scientology - MUST WATCH - Part 2 - YouTube

Inside a cult - Scientology - MUST WATCH - Part 3 - YouTube

My suggestion to those who want to watch that and it should be everybody here. Put it on full screen and mute the sound, unless you speak German. You'll have to read the dialogue but it's well worth it.

The only other journalist video I've seen is one from Britain and she was found out quickly (within a couple of days) and escorted out of the building. This guy managing to stay in for so long while still recording is miraculous. I love that he nails them on the BS about curing diseases.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I agree that Ron himself was a brilliant man and that the ideas he put forth were fascinating. And in the right hands this might have been a very positive movement. But I think a negative force has taken it over and become greedy and possibly evil. JMO

Ron had a lot of problems of his own including drug abuse and mental illness but from all accounts I have read the man was a genius, he wasnt the best sc ifi writer for sure but he did have some brilliant ideas and I agree entirely in the right hands some of what he came up with could be very helpful but it has fallen in to the wrong hands, most who have left the church KNOW that DM took a lot of Ron's actual writings/teachings and locked them away and replaced them with his own, a lot of the OT levels today are not even the stuff Ron wrote, its all altered tech designed to keep the real helpful stuff hidden and away from the masses because there are A LOT of people in this world, not just DM but politicians, other religious leaders, CEOs of corporations and even scientists nd doctors WHO DO NOT WANT us to get better, smarter and more healthy because if that happened they would no longer get to exploit us for their own personal and profitable gain and they would cease to live like royalty and we would all probably unite and public hangings would become legal again with them being the ones with noose around their necks.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I moved to the Los Angeles area in 1981. I had never heard of Scientology before moving here. In the 80's I became friends with many people who began to explore Scientology. Most of them were aspiring actors and entertainers. Here is how they were hooked in, and it is still happening the same way:

If you want to take an acting or voice over or modeling class in LA, it is very expensive and you usually need a reference from someone. Some acting classes are 50 to 200 bucks per class. And you need to audition for them.

HOWEVER, there are always ads in various local newspapers for very inexpensive classes, with glowing reports about the great teacher and the great results of the class.
And so lots of aspiring young actors will rush to those inexpensive classes. And then they find out that the class is being taught by a Scientologist and is full of other members and as time goes on, some become indoctrinated.

I saw it happen myself. At first my friends would say, " I don't care, I am not joining Scientology, but this is a good inexpensive class, and I am going to stay in it."

But as time went on, they would be lured by what they 'learned' in the class. If they weren't getting any jobs at auditions, they would be told it was because the casting directors were Scientologists too. And there would be Scientologist Casting Directors coming to the classes as guests, and they would discuss upcoming projects they would be casting.

Meanwhile, the students would be told that their 'personalities' were getting in their way. And perhaps they should sign up for an introductory course to help them in future auditions...

This is true and I also heard when I was in the COS that when travolta's career was struggling he was told ( and this is true even today ) that in hollywood no leading man in major films especially romantic roles, can be an openly gay person, yes there are many openly gay men in hollywood buy look closely and almost NONE of them are A LIST leading men,and John was promised that they could cure him of his homosexuality and thus he started the auditing and properly admitted to all sorts of sordid stuff he had done in the past (like I said I dont care if he is gay but I a pretty sure he is but that he also loves his wife and kids tremendously) so they have a lot of stuff on his file and while they didnt cure him of his homosexuality they did create this family man image of him by marrying him off to a VERY DEDICATED and loyal COS member herself in Kelly Preston and this when John became active in COS and married her his career SKYROCKETED and he had hit film after hit film, I do not believe that is a coincidence, I also think he wants out and I think these recent lawsuits and new rumors are a set up by the COS, yes I know its a conspiracy theory shoot me, to show him just how much misery they can cause him and then they also COME TO HIS RESCUE when he needs them most as it all goes down, the old good cop bad cop routine.


But I regress, you are right on the money Katy and that is all very true, they are trying to hook Will Smith now and that hurts like hell because I absolutely love Will as a person and actor and I would HATE to see him destroyed by it but like me he has admitted it is very intellectually stimulating for him but unlike me I just made **** up in y auditing sessions he may very well be truthful because he will be led to believe the emeter is a lie detector test (it isnt) and then they will have a file on him of everything bad he has ever done and thats all she wrote for Will he will then be a cult slave for the rest of his life.

I wish JT would come out but I understand why he doesnt, hollywood to this day will not use gay men as leading men in a lot of films, while it may make him a better person, I mean who likes living a lie like that, it wont finance the lifestyle that even he admits he loves very much, the planes he owns nd flies all the homes all over the world he LOVES that lifestyle and isnt ready to give it up to find the sort of peace that comes with facing our demons BEFORE they become beasts and eat us alive and I am afraid JT's demons have become beasts and its getting too late to do anything about any of it and a lot of that is because of what the COS has on his file.

But again I want to make the distinction between Dianetics/Scientology and the COS, two completely different things at this time. Maybe someday that wont be the case but DM has to go if that is to ever change.



Another important point is that if Scientology doesnt work for you and dont become successful in your life as an actror or whatever you are told its because you are lying to your auditor and not being truthful and its all your fault and you need to start over and be honest or bad things will continue to happen, THAT AGAIN IS COS not Elron's teachings. This is what they call OUT ETHICS, you are out ethics for WITHHOLDS (another scno term) things you are withholding from your auditor like maybe the time you did a little coke with a hooker or stole a candy bar from a store, they want it all disclosed and for purposes of Elron it was to help cleanse the soul of GUILT and help you grow but for purposes of COS today it is for BLACKMAIL.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Pax.....your knowledge on this subject and the fact you take out time in your life to share what you know is very much appreciated, FWIW.....

I like to talk about it because it all just fascinates me like the rest of you, the only difference is I had the chance to see it up close and personal for a time so I can offer a little insight but there is plenty that I aso do not know and am still learning even from some of the videos and posts here in this thread.


I Love to study cults in general, a good book I read recently is called KINGDOM OF THE CULTS, pick it up sometime, its a great read about cults, doesnt get in to the real less known cults but it touches on some of the more well known ones, there are a lot of strange cults out there than none of us have even heard of and all sorts of crazy **** goes on in them. During the 60s and 70s there were even more a lot of them were sex and drug cults of some really crazy but absolutely fascinating stuff.

 

[Steely Dan]

This is true and I also heard when I was in the COS that when travolta's career was struggling he was told ( and this is true even today ) that in hollywood no leading man in major films especially romantic roles, can be an openly gay person, yes there are many openly gay men in hollywood buy look closely and almost NONE of them are A LIST leading men,and John was promised that they could cure him of his homosexuality and thus he started the auditing and properly admitted to all sorts of sordid stuff he had done in the past (like I said I dont care if he is gay but I a pretty sure he is but that he also loves his wife and kids tremendously) so they have a lot of stuff on his file and while they didnt cure him of his homosexuality they did create this family man image of him by marrying him off to a VERY DEDICATED and loyal COS member herself in Kelly Preston and this when John became active in COS and married her his career SKYROCKETED and he had hit film after hit film, I do not believe that is a coincidence, I also think he wants out and I think these recent lawsuits and new rumors are a set up by the COS, yes I know its a conspiracy theory shoot me, to show him just how much misery they can cause him and then they also COME TO HIS RESCUE when he needs them most as it all goes down, the old good cop bad cop routine.


But I regress, you are right on the money Katy and that is all very true, they are trying to hook Will Smith now and that hurts like hell because I absolutely love Will as a person and actor and I would HATE to see him destroyed by it but like me he has admitted it is very intellectually stimulating for him but unlike me I just made **** up in y auditing sessions he may very well be truthful because he will be led to believe the emeter is a lie detector test (it isnt) and then they will have a file on him of everything bad he has ever done and thats all she wrote for Will he will then be a cult slave for the rest of his life.

I wish JT would come out but I understand why he doesnt, hollywood to this day will not use gay men as leading men in a lot of films, while it may make him a better person, I mean who likes living a lie like that, it wont finance the lifestyle that even he admits he loves very much, the planes he owns nd flies all the homes all over the world he LOVES that lifestyle and isnt ready to give it up to find the sort of peace that comes with facing our demons BEFORE they become beasts and eat us alive and I am afraid JT's demons have become beasts and its getting too late to do anything about any of it and a lot of that is because of what the COS has on his file.

But again I want to make the distinction between Dianetics/Scientology and the COS, two completely different things at this time. Maybe someday that wont be the case but DM has to go if that is to ever change.



Another important point is that if Scientology doesnt work for you and dont become successful in your life as an actror or whatever you are told its because you are lying to your auditor and not being truthful and its all your fault and you need to start over and be honest or bad things will continue to happen, THAT AGAIN IS COS not Elron's teachings. This is what they call OUT ETHICS, you are out ethics for WITHHOLDS (another scno term) things you are withholding from your auditor like maybe the time you did a little coke with a hooker or stole a candy bar from a store, they want it all disclosed and for purposes of Elron it was to help cleanse the soul of GUILT and help you grow but for purposes of COS today it is for BLACKMAIL.

BBM

I believe that LRH would have no problem with the blackmail angle. When LRH was running scientology he tried to frame Paulette Cooper for making bomb threats so she'd be put in jail. When that didn't seem to work fast enough they tried to kill her. (For those who don't know about this, watch Paulette Coopers testimony to Clearwater. It's in this thread and you can find it by searching Youtube. The proof of what I wrote is in the court papers from the trial that put some scientologists behind bars. Including LRH's dear wife.) They practiced the whole idea of litigate until you've bankrupted someone, spread lies about the person and it wouldn't surprise me if he used the auditing information against someone back then too. The fair game policy has toned down under DM. That's only because he's afraid of getting caught on more serious stuff. JMO

The scientologists were running "Operation Snow White". This link will give you a brief summary and a link to the court documents. http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?page_id=18

 

[21merc7]

BBM

I believe that LRH would have no problem with the blackmail angle. When LRH was running scientology he tried to frame Paulette Cooper for making bomb threats so she'd be put in jail. When that didn't seem to work fast enough they tried to kill her. (For those who don't know about this, watch Paulette Coopers testimony to Clearwater. It's in this thread and you can find it by searching Youtube. The proof of what I wrote is in the court papers from the trial that put some scientologists behind bars. Including LRH's dear wife.) They practiced the whole idea of litigate until you've bankrupted someone, spread lies about the person and it wouldn't surprise me if he used the auditing information against someone back then too. The fair game policy has toned down under DM. That's only because he's afraid of getting caught on more serious stuff. JMO

The scientologists were running "Operation Snow White". This link will give you a brief summary and a link to the court documents. http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?page_id=18

To add to that, somewhere around here are some links about Scientology being either told or charged with filing frivolous lawsuits. That is never good and means they will always be looked upon with a frown. I can't remember where I saw that, but after all I am learning about their evil and criminal ways, I was happy to read it. Hope it's true.

I'm still listening to the guy with 16 vids, he keeps slapping his hands on his legs and it is making me crazy!

 

[21merc7]

It was in 1994, one of their lawyers was charged. Interesting link I found it on:

http://www.scientology-lies.com/crimesindex.html

 

[PAXIMUS]

BBM

I believe that LRH would have no problem with the blackmail angle. When LRH was running scientology he tried to frame Paulette Cooper for making bomb threats so she'd be put in jail. When that didn't seem to work fast enough they tried to kill her. (For those who don't know about this, watch Paulette Coopers testimony to Clearwater. It's in this thread and you can find it by searching Youtube. The proof of what I wrote is in the court papers from the trial that put some scientologists behind bars. Including LRH's dear wife.) They practiced the whole idea of litigate until you've bankrupted someone, spread lies about the person and it wouldn't surprise me if he used the auditing information against someone back then too. The fair game policy has toned down under DM. That's only because he's afraid of getting caught on more serious stuff. JMO

The scientologists were running "Operation Snow White". This link will give you a brief summary and a link to the court documents. http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?page_id=18

That I cannot deny but he did have his reasons even if his means did not justify his ends, it was the same with Fidel Castro, he was under heavy attack from the CIA which had infiltrated his country in an attempt to overthrow him, no wwe could debate Castro all day I do believe he was not the horrible person portrayed here in the west, he did do a lot of very good things for the poor, for example a lot of the wealthy Cubans you see in the states now owned most of the land in Cuba and they were using the poor peasants for all intents and purposes as slaves to tend to that land, paying them next to nothing, Castro put an immediate stop to that and even confiscated the land of those who were doing it, now I am no commie and I dont agree with everything he did but the one thing that everyone mentions about Castro is how he imprisoned all his political opponents, that is something we in the USA frown upon in a big way but Castro being under such heavy attack had no way of knowing who was a genuine opponent and who was being funded and acting as a puppet for the covert CIA operations that were going on in his country at the time so he had no choice but to go to extremes and just lock them all up. Elron was sort of in the same position, again I am not saying I agree with it or endorse it but he was under heavy attack for his ideas at the time and the CIA and FBI had a big hand in that, he had no idea who was who so he like Castro and many others took extreme measures and just went after everyone who questioned his methods, I dont agree with that it is extreme and fanatical but I think we do have to walk in another man's shoes before we can understand why he does what he does.

Cooper is a good lady, I own her book and it was one of the things that inspired me to go in and look around myself when I was a journalism major, what they did to her was vile and inhuman, they did a lot of bad things to her much of which are unspeakable, but I think Ron felt he was painted in to a corner and we all know when people feel that way they do strange things. None of this of course excuses any of it but I dont think it was just petty revenge, Ron was under heavy artillery attack and he did what he thought he had to do to save his sinking ship. I will repeat I dont like it but its something you see all through history when people are threatened and their very lively hood on the verge of being taken away they act in extraordinary ways that in any other situation they likely would not do. Generally speaking those who knew and were close to Ron say he was a good decent caring man but he did have a mean streak and he was also terribly mentally ill and spent time in a Naval psyche ward because of it so I am sure this all contributed to those things. But I want to repeat that I love Cooper and her work she was a courageous woman who took on something much larger than she was at a time when most women would never dare do such a thing.


The Elron of his later years is quite a different man than the younger Elron who IMO was indeed quite a brilliant man, unfortunately due to drug abuse and mental illness, which he likely self medicated because of, his paranoia got the best of him but he is neither the first or the last that can be said of. And I try not to let it take away from some of the brilliant things he DID accomplish much like I dont care much for some of the things Che and Castro did but their idea and strategies of revolution to this day is a textbook study in guerrilla warfare and how to win a war against those stronger and more powerful than you are and how to overthrow the tyrants and despots, and I thank them for that contribution to history, it should be studied by everyone to learn that anything can be overcome if the heart truly wants it bad enough and if one is willing to put their neck and balls on the line to accomplish it.


All I try to do in sitautions like this is walk in another man's shoes and ask myself would I be capable of acting in such a way if felt threatened in the way Ron MAY HAVE PERCEIVED himself threatened and the answer is I MIGHT and I think a lot of us MIGHT.


Certainly BOTH Operation SNOW WHITE and Operation FREAKOUT are blackeyes for Elron and the COS, one of many indeed.

 

[prima.facie]

there are a lot of strange cults out there than none of us have even heard of and all sorts of crazy **** goes on in them. During the 60s and 70s there were even more a lot of them were sex and drug cults of some really crazy but absolutely fascinating stuff.

yes i know....i was unfortunately involved in one at the hands of my naive parents....and even have been asked to join in on charges against a high ranking member of that cult - masked as regular church.

 

[Steely Dan]

O/T but interesting as long as we're talking about cults.

Jeremy Spencer was a guitarist for the original Fleetwood Mac band. After Peter Green left the band FWM was touring America circa 1968 and they were doing the last few shows. They were flying from San Francisco to LA and Jeremy started to freak out next to Mick on the plane. He kept saying that he was sure something bad was going to happen to him in LA and that he didn't want to go. Mick convinced him to just hang on until the end of the tour.

When they arrived in LA they checked into a hotel and the next morning Jeremy said he was going to get a paper. Well he didn't come back and a couple of hours before show time Mick went looking for him. He started with the closest bookstore since Jeremy was gonna get a paper. They told him they remembered him and that he had left earlier that morning with a member of a local cult. Mick found out where the cult was and went to get Jeremy.

Mick got there and they denied Jeremy was even there, but Mick knew he was. Finally they bring Jeremy out surrounded by cult members and behind a long desk. Jeremy said he wanted to stay and he wasn't going to go back with Mick. That was it. He stayed with the cult and FWM was fortunate to get Peter Green to fly in and finish the shows out that Jeremy abandoned.

That's all from memory after reading Mick Fleetwood's autobiography. Mick said he saw Jeremy back in the eighties and he was still with the cult as far as he knew.

 

[gitana1]

I have found out why that letter in my post up thread was so important-It is b/c an entire org left the church.I do not know how many people this includes-I wish I knew though.

Gitana-I hope I did not offended you-Sometimes I read posts the wrong way-It happens a lot with me as I am a blonde-LOL

Not at all! I was just trying to figure it out!

More on the e-meter; http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/E-Meter/tbite.html

...What The Meter Does

The basic claims for what the e-meter does (besides measure body resistance) are summarized in the statement below, taken from pages 5 and 6:

Tests conclusively show that an individual's emotional state, his thoughts, etc., instantly raise or lower the electrical resistance of the body. Thus the meter is an extremely valuable tool in the hands of a trained auditor... We in Scientology have come to accept the fact that the E-Meter ``talks'' to us.

We rarely give much thought to the hours and hours of work and research put in by L. Ron Hubbard, resulting in the perfect instrument -- the Mark V -- and an exact exposition of what the various readings and changes mean.

How much credence should we give to these claims? Is the Church willing to stand behind them? From the copyright page:

This book is part of the works of L. Ron Hubbard who developed Dianetics spiritual healing technology and Scientology applied religious philosophy. It is presented to the reader as a record of observations and research into the nature of the human mind and spirit, and not as a statement of claims made by the author.

In other words, ``This stuff is not supposed to be factual; it may well be rubbish. Don't try to hold us responsible. Hubbard wrote it; we publish it.'' From the same page:

The Hubbard Electrometer, or E-meter, is a device which is sometimes used in Dianetics and Scientology. In itself, the E-meter does nothing. It is not intended or effective for the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of any disease, or for the improvement of health or any bodily function.

This despite the fact that Scientology claims that 70% of all illness is psychosomatic and can be cured with auditing!...

Hubbard also wrote;

Ordinary "tin" cans with the paper label stripped off are preferred. Although they are less attractive, they give a more accurate response.

However, that's not what they use. :what:

The E-meter is bunk, IMO. It's really easy to get people to believe what they desperately want to believe. Didn't PAX say he did it and instead of thinking of the famous pinch, he thought of something totally different and it still registered? Also, they didn't find out the German journalist who did such a great investigative piece on the cult. If it worked, they would have ferreted that out.

They use the machine to make people think that if they lie, it will show, and combined with intense pressure, people feel compelled to talk.

BBM

I believe that LRH would have no problem with the blackmail angle. When LRH was running scientology he tried to frame Paulette Cooper for making bomb threats so she'd be put in jail. When that didn't seem to work fast enough they tried to kill her. (For those who don't know about this, watch Paulette Coopers testimony to Clearwater. It's in this thread and you can find it by searching Youtube. The proof of what I wrote is in the court papers from the trial that put some scientologists behind bars. Including LRH's dear wife.) They practiced the whole idea of litigate until you've bankrupted someone, spread lies about the person and it wouldn't surprise me if he used the auditing information against someone back then too. The fair game policy has toned down under DM. That's only because he's afraid of getting caught on more serious stuff. JMO

The scientologists were running "Operation Snow White". This link will give you a brief summary and a link to the court documents. http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?page_id=18

Precisely. I'm sorry and no offense intended but I'm not buying the LRH was a brilliant genius who created an incredible system of truths baloney. Those who knew him then, including his own son, describe a shrewd charlatan, a sick, evil and cunning cult leader who mashed up a bunch of philosophies and psychological techniques and packaged it in a way that would appeal to the desperate. He found a great way to con people like mad, out of their life savings and their autonomy. :moo:

 

[gitana1]

O/T but interesting as long as we're talking about cults.

Jeremy Spencer was a guitarist for the original Fleetwood Mac band. After Peter Green left the band FWM was touring America circa 1968 and they were doing the last few shows. They were flying from San Francisco to LA and Jeremy started to freak out next to Mick on the plane. He kept saying that he was sure something bad was going to happen to him in LA and that he didn't want to go. Mick convinced him to just hang on until the end of the tour.

When they arrived in LA they checked into a hotel and the next morning Jeremy said he was going to get a paper. Well he didn't come back and a couple of hours before show time Mick went looking for him. He started with the closest bookstore since Jeremy was gonna get a paper. They told him they remembered him and that he had left earlier that morning with a member of a local cult. Mick found out where the cult was and went to get Jeremy.

Mick got there and they denied Jeremy was even there, but Mick knew he was. Finally they bring Jeremy out surrounded by cult members and behind a long desk. Jeremy said he wanted to stay and he wasn't going to go back with Mick. That was it. He stayed with the cult and FWM was fortunate to get Peter Green to fly in and finish the shows out that Jeremy abandoned.

That's all from memory after reading Mick Fleetwood's autobiography. Mick said he saw Jeremy back in the eighties and he was still with the cult as far as he knew.

Wow! he joined the Children of God or "The Family". They are known for "flirty fishing", basically the use of prostitution to recruit members. They are also well known for their horrific and systemic molestation of children, including the leader's son, Ricky Rodriguez, who was molested from the age of two and finally, at age 29, murdered one of the cult members and then killed himself.

River Phoenix and family were in this cult for a while.

One of my best friends works with a gal who raised in it and molested. She just lost her mind at work and is on a medical leave of absence. This cult has created such incredible psychological damage it is unreal!

 

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Did anyone post this yet? Bizarre!! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOd__GJLeCs&feature=related"]Scientology Stalker at the Front Door - YouTube[/ame]