Trial Discussion Thread #11 weekend thread

[Viper]

He was in his underwear? So in amongst all the screaming and beating down doors he managed to get dressed? Because those shorts that are covered in blood are not "underwear". No 28 year old man wears underwear that almost reaches their knees.

Oh, my mistake sorry, they looked like boxer short underwear to my eyes.. So she was dressed and he was dressed. Thank you.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I have been catching up with the video today as I missed heaps last week. Can someone tell me if it possible to clone an iPad. It seems both iPads had been wiped and contained exactly the same information at the same time but only for the 13th Feb which strangely ended at around 9.30 ish. That seems a bit too coincidental to me. Even if they had both had an iPad each, with both of them accessing the same websites, the timing would be different even if only by a few seconds. To me that looks incredibly suspect. I can see why he might want to clear his ipad before RS got a chance to see what was on it but to have two showing exactly the same timing for the same websites. Can anyone explain how it could be done.

Only other possibility is that I misheard the evidence. I will look at it again.

 

[steveml]

If I was in that situation, I would be back in the passageway, using the wall as a shield, just peering around the doorway. Who's to say the person in the toilet isn't going to come bursting out all guns blazing?

That would seem very logical to me. Even those of us who haven't used firearms have a grasp of how armed people usually approach a dangerous scenario. It would be foolish to be very close to the door - unless you knew what was behind that door posed no threat.

 

[steveml]

Interesting piece here from Gareth Cliff, he's met both Reeva and OP...

http://www.garethcliff.com/blog/?p=491

 

[Insp.Dots]

If you have been giving any thought about what his complete version might include please share it with me. I generally think that he won't say much more of anything other than what he said in his affidavit, so I would love to hear a different way for him to improve the story.

Just to be clear I don't personally believe his story so far and I most likely won't unless there is some solid evidence in his favour. HOWEVER. I also haven't heard enough to make me 100% sure it was intentional murder.
I think he will probably only embellish what he has said to try and cast doubt in the mind of the Judge. We haven't heard from direct neighbours yet or anyone he may have had discussions with on that evening.
IMO he is guilty of Murder in the eyes of the SA law....ie 4 bullets = murder. I think something triggered a jealous rage in him and he literally 'lost it'. Is there a crime of passion charge as that at present would be my choice.

ALSO.. Some may think I am pro OP....I am not. I want the truth. The reason I am so adamant with this is because I have seen the result of a Miscarriage of Justice. Angela Canning who was jailed for killing her babies. I very wrongly jumped to a conclusion that she was guilty having heard what was also mostly circumstantial evidence......I was so wrong and I will never make that mistake again. Hence me saying I want to hear all that OP has to say and all his defence. I trust the Judge will make the right and proper decision.

 

[minor4th]

I respectfully disagree and i believe that even going on Oscar's far fetched nonsense we are still talking murder because of 2 things

1) Failure to identify target

2) Firing 4 times

For example, imo if Oscar attempted to identify who was in the toilet and got no reply, it would perhaps be understandable why he might fire 1 shot.

Respectfully, I was quoting the law in SA - and if it is reasonably possibly true that Oscar heard a sound and believed it was an intruder who was about to attack him, it's not murder but culpable homicide.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I have been catching up with the video today as I missed heaps last week. Can someone tell me if it possible to clone an iPad. It seems both iPads had been wiped and contained exactly the same information at the same time but only for the 13th Feb which strangely ended at around 9.30 ish. That seems a bit to coincidental to me. Even if they had both had an iPad each, with both of them accessing the same websites, the timing would be different even if only by a few seconds. To me that looks incredibly suspect. I can see why he might want to clear his ipad before RS got a chance to see what was on it but to have two showing exactly the same timing for the same websites. Can anyone explain how it could be done.

Only other possibility is that I misheard the evidence. I will look at it again.

Yes I was thinking about all that. Also Nel seemed to emphasize when saying they were then handed back to the defence...it made me think he was building up to something big. Also, can you sync the iPods to an I phone too? I wonder if he sent some kind of message on his iPhone AFTER killing Reeva. We know he had his phone until the Police realized it and requested it to be handed over. All crazy speculation but it feels like something big may come out with the next couple of witnesses. All MOO

 

[luvmygarden]

That would seem very logical to me. Even those of us who haven't used firearms have a grasp of how armed people usually approach a dangerous scenario. It would be foolish to be very close to the door - unless you knew what was behind that door posed no threat.

Yes if it was an intruder with a gun bullets could do just as much damage going out of the toilet room as going in. That was a risky move to yell and stand right in front of the door so the intruder could shoot 4 shots right at the homeowner OP.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Question to anyone who has their mind made up on OP's Guilt of 'intentional murder'. Is there anything the defence or prosecution could bring in that would change your mind?

 

[minor4th]

I got the impression that an immature man was using his wealth and the civil court to harass his victim by filing a frivolous lawsuit against her for a ridiculous amount of money, knowing that as a college student it would place great hardship on her to have to pay the legal fees to defend herself.

That's possible for sure.

My point was really that the charges were dropped by police on that, and for good reason it seems. So I don't think that event can be cited as Oscar having engaged in domestic violence, kwim?

 

[Viper]

Yes I was thinking about all that. Also Nel seemed to emphasize when saying they were then handed back to the defence...it made me think he was building up to something big. Also, can you sync the iPods to an I phone too? I wonder if he sent some kind of message on his iPhone AFTER killing Reeva. We know he had his phone until the Police realized it and requested it to be handed over. All crazy speculation but it feels like something big may come out with the next couple of witnesses. All MOO

What does MOO mean?

The Apple website has forums where people can talk, much like this one, and there are experts to help with questions. I wonder if anyone that has followed the trial has headed over there to get some answers yet!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

If I was in that situation, I would be back in the passageway, using the wall as a shield, just peering around the doorway. Who's to say the person in the toilet isn't going to come bursting out all guns blazing?

And I too think OP must have bellowed at Reeva "Get out of my house!" and then cleverly incorporated it into his story in case any of the neighbours had heard.
(We still haven't heard from them all, have we.)

Very possible scenario . That may also be how the jeans got flung out of the window. Lots of scenarios, hope we have some clearer evidence this week.
It is unbelievable that he never sought the help of an able bodied live in either before or after the shooting . As I said earlier he should have been the first on the scene and would no doubt have responded automatically had he pressed the panic button .
I am wondering who we will hear from them this week .
It hard to believe that Nel is only expecting to call 4 or 5 more witness's
I can think of 6 I would like to here testimony from
Netcare ,caretaker ,ex boyfriend ,phone records analysis specialist ,stander and his daughter who were first on scene . That is already six . I can but hope Nel has something really big to share with us .

 

[minor4th]

You know the ballistic expert was hard for me to understand because he had a speaking pattern that put me off and he used very few words. But Roux was badgering him about rapid firing a pistol and hitting a target, I believe Roux wanted to make it seem that OP was proficient at the double tap. The officer said no, OP could not do it and the average gun owner could not do it. I smiled when he said he could do it because he competes in competitions! Roux was visibly frustrated with all if his testimony!

I know too many of the details if the case, but some of the alternative scenerios that the DT have I am not following. How are they using double tap in their defense?

I have a different theory about why Roux was getting him to explain that the 4 shots couldnt have been 2 "double taps" - that is to eliminate the possibility that there were two sets of gunshots and that they happened together.

This eliminates the possibility that the two separate sets of bangs were both gunshots.

 

[Insp.Dots]

What does MOO mean?

The Apple website has forums where people can talk, much like this one, and there are experts to help with questions. I wonder if anyone that has followed the trial has headed over there to get some answers yet!

Sorry it means my own opinion.
Good idea 're the Apple website, though I am useless when it comes to technology so I'd probably be easily lost!

 

[Insp.Dots]

Interesting piece here from Gareth Cliff, he's met both Reeva and OP...

http://www.garethcliff.com/blog/?p=491

Thanks for that. Excellent article and I think he's pretty much spot on with his opinion.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Question to anyone who has their mind made up on OP's Guilt of 'intentional murder'. Is there anything the defence or prosecution could bring in that would change your mind?

Most people will be open to listening to defence evidence in the interest of justice but couldn't say specifically what would change my mind until I heard it.
I lean towards guilty at the moment but would not rule out a change of mind if further evidence presented pointed to innocence .

 

[TorisMom003]

Does anyone really think that OP would let Reeva unlock the bedroom door to go down to the kitchen (or anywhere else) in the middle of the night without him going with her? This man was supposedly very mindful of security. I firmly believe that if Reeva went down for something to eat, that he went with her. I doubt that OP would have let her have the key to unlock the bedroom door.

Someone had mentioned why didn't Reeva just leave the bedroom if there was a fight between her and OP. Reeva had no way of leaving the bedroom, the door was locked. Reeva was stuck, the only place to go was the toilet room.

MOO

 

[Gbtaketwo]

What does MOO mean?

The Apple website has forums where people can talk, much like this one, and there are experts to help with questions. I wonder if anyone that has followed the trial has headed over there to get some answers yet!

Not done a lot of research but from the little I did do I found the advice re recovery and unlocking mixed so couldn't form a firm opinion . Some people said yes it was all recoverable others said no

 

[Interested Bystander]

Yes I was thinking about all that. Also Nel seemed to emphasize when saying they were then handed back to the defence...it made me think he was building up to something big. Also, can you sync the iPods to an I phone too? I wonder if he sent some kind of message on his iPhone AFTER killing Reeva. We know he had his phone until the Police realized it and requested it to be handed over. All crazy speculation but it feels like something big may come out with the next couple of witnesses. All MOO

I saw this on an Apple forum – anyone know whether websites also would be restored?

"This is quite easy. First, connect your old iPad to your computer and open up iTunes. After it syncs, click on where it says <Your name's> iPad, go to Info and there should be Check for Update and Backup. Click on the "Backup" button. When its done, you can disconnect it. Now connect your new iPad, when it runs the startup, select "Restore from Backup". Let it run, and there you go! All your old things on a brand new iPad."

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3917548

 

[Interested Bystander]

Not done a lot of research but from the little I did do I found the advice re recovery and unlocking mixed so couldn't form a firm opinion . Some people said yes it was all recoverable others said no

MOO means my own opinion