Trial Discussion Thread #11 weekend thread

[Viper]

So....if Oscar gets off....anyone who wants to kill someone can invite them in to the house, wait for them to use the loo, then shoot them through the loo door...4 times just to make sure they die.

Apparently yes, provided that they tell the court that they were genuinely terrified of an immenant threat to their life. That is what some are saying. Personally I don't believe that, and I don't believe that the SA judges hearing this case believe that. The key thing that is missing for OP is that he did not visually identify any threat, it is all in his mind.

 

[Interested Bystander]

OP says the bathroom window was open. If I were to believe that (and I don't) why did he not take a quick look out of the window to see if there were ladders there. He could have kept his gun pointed at the door. That would have been the only way in, unless the intruder could climb walls unaided. It would have taken two seconds. He would then have known it was not an intruder as their was no ladder. His alibi is twaddle and I think it will be taken apart by Nel.

As it happens the ladders he refers to were on another side of the house and, as I have said before, if he claims he could hear the window slide open, why did he not hear the noise of the ladders being lifted, carried round the house, put together, placed against the house, scaled by the intruder who then enters the bathroom via a narrow window.

His gardener lives in a room within the house. He must have heard something. He is on the witness list. I wonder, if called, he will be honest enough to tell the truth or whether OP has greased his palm. Call me a cynic!

 

[weeeva]

If I broke into someone's bathroom --- and the homeowner rushed to the door screaming "I've got a gun", I think that would be more than enough to stop me in my wake. But OP doesn't bother with that. He goes straight for the kill

Would you be armed or unarmed? The house owner would not know.

 

[Trooper]

is there any footage anywhere at all, of OP on his stumps standing, walking, running?:websleuther:

cant find anything of Oscar, but someone similar..


Double Amputee Dwayne - Stumps walking on concrete - YouTube

:dunno:

 

[Viper]

From that link, I garnered this screen shot of his stumps:

I recall his ex-girlfriend stating that he needed to use something to balance and now I see why.

Yes, but correct me if I am wrong but wasn't she referring to mobility, walking about? Not sure that applies to when he is stationary and firing shots because he was deadly accurate and fired quickly. Not that it matters really, but he has a more stable way to stand as well. He can stand on his knees, using his lower legs to balance just like anyone elso can.

 

[soozieqtips]

weeva, your quote is broken, so my response is - the homeowner standing outside the closed toilet door with a gun and Black Talon bullets has a better advantage over the person stuck in a tiny room.

 

[Duchy]

cant find anything of Oscar, but someone similar..


Double Amputee Dwayne - Stumps walking on concrete - YouTube

:dunno:

Amazing!

 

[Cherwell]

cant find anything of Oscar, but someone similar..

I'm guessing that Dwayne in the video has not been an amputee from infancy, as OP is, since he's talking about learning to walk progressively on different surfaces. He's had to adapt. Instructive to see how quickly he can get about.

OP has never known anything else, so it would be natural to him.

ETA Found Dwayne's website http://dwaynefernandes.com.au/ He has been an amputee since he was 11 years old.

 

[DebinGA]

After hearing the ballistics witness describe the horrific effects of the black talon bullets, I can't imagine a scenario where OP could have felt terribly threatened. The mythical intruder was behind a solid door in a very confined space with OP outside pointing a gun full of hollow point bullets, any one of which would stop said intruder dead in his tracks if he burst forth from the cubicle to face the armed and ready OP. Where was the supposed danger to OP in that situation? If there was one thing OP premediatated, it was choosing the deadly black talons over regular ammo, indicating he well knew their effect and imo felt no fear until he realized the ramifications to himself of what he'd just done.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Roux insisted on the trial that too many photos of OP were taken and the officer said 9 photos only and that subject lasted a while .. That was the next day of OP's bloody photos in the media .. Does anyone have an idea abt that?
I mean did the defence want to see all the other photos or what ?

Here is another question ..Why do you think OP allegedly went downstairs to open the front door taking the time to leave dying /dead Reeva upstairs and put that detail in his affidavit? Any theory?

We'll have to listen to Netcare evidence but according to him he was taking her to the hospital as they instructed. Hence going down to open the door.

 

[Harmony 2]

Yes, but correct me if I am wrong but wasn't she referring to mobility, walking about? Not sure that applies to when he is stationary and firing shots because he was deadly accurate and fired quickly. Not that it matters really, but he has a more stable way to stand as well. He can stand on his knees, using his lower legs to balance just like anyone elso can.

Good point about standing on his knees and using lower legs to balance on. I had not thought of that. :blushing:

 

[soozieqtips]

We'll have to listen to Netcare evidence but according to him he was taking her to the hospital as they instructed. Hence going down to open the door.

I'm interested in knowing exactly how he described Reeva's injuries that would make Netcare suggest moving the body.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Taylor-Memmory claims that after hearing shouting and vulgar language from another room, she approached to find Pistorius screaming at his former lover. “As I approached his large outside doors, Oscar was furiously trying to close them. He started to punch the door and then is when one of the top panels fell and hit my left leg,” she said. “After this happened I went to tell Oscar that he had hurt me to which he replied ‘well, go call your f****** lawyer.’”

http://www.webpronews.com/oscar-pistorius-settles-assault-suit-2014-02

The incident was 2009. Which girlfriend it may have been? Definitely OP was at that time already a squaller and choleric person.

 

[Viper]

After hearing the ballistics witness describe the horrific effects of the black talon bullets, I can't imagine a scenario where OP could have felt terribly threatened. The mythical intruder was behind a solid door in a very confined space with OP outside pointing a gun full of hollow point bullets, any one of which would stop said intruder dead in his tracks if he burst forth from the cubicle to face the armed and ready OP. Where was the supposed danger to OP in that situation? If there was one thing OP premediatated, it was choosing the deadly black talons over regular ammo, indicating he well knew their effect and imo felt no fear until he realized the ramifications to himself of what he'd just done.

I own a similar gun and it is loaded with hollow points; the reason is "stopping power." If I am attacked by a real human being (not just a door) and I fear for my life I want the shots to stop the attacker and stop him fast, before he can harm me. So yes OPs choice of bullets was to seriously njury or kill quickly, and he knew they would each time he pulled the trigger. So it goes back to OP and an obvious intent to kill.

There is a lot of common sense that applies to the responsible ownership of a firearm, it is not rocket science by any means. What OP lays out in his fairy tale is inconceivable to me because I would have great reservation about firing even one shot blindly at a person that I do not see, it is a deadly weapon! I'd venture to say I believe 99.99% of gun owners have the same reservation as I do.

 

[steveml]

Taylor-Memmory claims that after hearing shouting and vulgar language from another room, she approached to find Pistorius screaming at his former lover. “As I approached his large outside doors, Oscar was furiously trying to close them. He started to punch the door and then is when one of the top panels fell and hit my left leg,” she said. “After this happened I went to tell Oscar that he had hurt me to which he replied ‘well, go call your f****** lawyer.’”

http://www.webpronews.com/oscar-pistorius-settles-assault-suit-2014-02

The incident was 2009. Which girlfriend it may have been? Definitely OP was at that time already a squaller and choleric person.

Sounds like his temper's showing again. I've placed very little weight on the extent of damage to the door because I haven't seen the door. Similarly I've never seen any photo's of the girls leg. Usually when something is worth media attention we see many photo's showcasing the damage/injury.
It certainly doesn't help in convincing us that he's a calm and responsible person though.

 

[steveml]

I own a similar gun and it is loaded with hollow points; the reason is "stopping power." If I am attacked by a real human being (not just a door) and I fear for my life I want the shots to stop the attacker and stop him fast, before he can harm me. So yes OPs choice of bullets was to seriously njury or kill quickly, and he knew they would each time he pulled the trigger. So it goes back to OP and an obvious intent to kill.

There is a lot of common sense that applies to the responsible ownership of a firearm, it is not rocket science by any means. What OP lays out in his fairy tale is inconceivable to me because I would have great reservation about firing even one shot blindly at a person that I do not see, it is a deadly weapon! I'd venture to say I believe 99.99% of gun owners have the same reservation as I do.

It's good to have a perspective from someone who owns a firearm. What's your opinion regarding the list of firearms that OP had on order? To a non gun owner like myself this seems ridiculously excessive, but I'd be interested to hear your opinion at to whether this seems an overt need, or whether this would be considered fairly normal if OP was regularly at a shooting range? I understand from the trial that there are different allowances for sports etc., but I'm not sure whether OP could be classed as legitimately requiring these for a specific hobby.

 

[steveml]

Eyewitness News senior reporter. Co-author on working title, Behind The Door: the Oscar and Reeva Story.

Pretoria, South Africa

 

[Gbtaketwo]

the only person who could tell us if she peed , or didn't pee. is Reeva.


and she is dead.

so its one of those things no one will ever know. not even Oscar.


only 2 people know what went on upstairs and downstairs that night. one is in the dock, and one is dead.

and the one in the dock isn't privy to the workings of anyones bladder except his own. its a secret Reeva has taken to her grave. . It is a big assumption to make that just because she is in the toilet, she is there to pee.. there are quite a few alternatives to that. It is a reasonable assumption, but it isn't the only one that could be made, and be true.

I'm suspicious of it merely because that's what Oscar wants to be believed on. Lets face it. he has to have SOME story as to why she dies so horribly in there. He's gone for the one acceptable.. but not necessarily factual.

I wasn't making that assumption but just trying to discredit his version of events by going through the possibilities and plausibility of his version of events Probably not wording my thoughts correctly .
As you say only there are only two people know the truth and one of them is sadly dead.
Do you think they will call the live in to give evidence ? It seems incredible that he wasn't the first on the scene .

 

[BlueShoe]

Since there is a lull in the trial, I'm de-lurking to ask a quick question: Is it true that Oscar claims that he shouted "Get out of my house!" ? If so, how could the intruder possibly do this since the toilet area window was too small? Why did he not say "Open the door and come out with your hands up"?

If after yelling, "Get out of my house," the "intruder" had started opening the door, would Oscar not have shot? After all, Oscar would not know if the intruder had a weapon. Why did he then go directly in front of the door and fire, unless he felt fairly sure the intruder was unarmed. If he believed the intruder was unarmed, he would not have been in fear for his life. If he believed the intruder was armed, he would not have shouted "Get out of my house," and then gone to stand directly in front of the door, unless he felt suicidal.

Maybe he actually yelled this at Reeva? And she refused?

 

[Viper]

It's good to have a perspective from someone who owns a firearm. What's your opinion regarding the list of firearms that OP had on order? To a non gun owner like myself this seems ridiculously excessive, but I'd be interested to hear your opinion at to whether this seems an overt need, or whether this would be considered fairly normal if OP was regularly at a shooting range? I understand from the trial that there are different allowances for sports etc., but I'm not sure whether OP could be classed as legitimately requiring these for a specific hobby.

To be honest I am not a gun enthusiast anymore. I own two firearms right now, a Glock 9mm and my grandfathers .22 rifle that he used to teach all of my aunts and uncle to shoot with. My first purchase was a Walther .380 PPK, probably subconsciously influenced by James Bond, but it was also compact and just really beautiful in every way. :smile: It is really fun to go to the shooting range and test your skills! Lots of people love the sport and many get really good at it and compete in competitions. But it has been years since I've gone to the shooting range. It is not uncommon for people that appreciate firearms to own more than one. The collection that OP was ammasing really only tells me that he like firearms and shooting them very much, but ordering them all at once tells me he was just spending money and didn't really appreciate any one of them in particular.