Trial Discussion Thread #16

[Trooper]

it was here, at this junction, once his hand was freed from Reevas throat, that he nipped upstairs??

 

[nastasya]

I believe the WharsApp texts are coming next week. We will see. But it would seem highly unusual for Reeva to not use electronic communications / media (WhatsApp texts and Twitter) past 10:00pm.

This is why killer added "just spoke with Reeva" to his alibi.

By the start of the trial the defense new that the WhatsApp texts were going to be a problem.

 

[Trooper]

once someone has lawyerd up. even in the good old usa. the police don't get a statement.. that is, a statement at the station. Oscar had his pics taken at the station etc.. but by then his lawyer had arrived..

 

[Viper]

But what would the other reason be, though .. why else would he be doing it?

IMO Putting on a show for those that were watching. An attempt to convince them that he really wanted Reeva to live, he was taking action to save the "accidental" victim.

 

[soozieqtips]

Hey Viper - what's up with the broken quotes? It looks like you're a) replying to yourself... or b) using the wrong username in your own quote. Took me a minute or two to figure out I wasn't going nuts! :smile:

 

[steveml]

Here's my theory why OP cannot have chosen to fire a specific shot to the head, and could not be sure where the shots would hit. This is irrespective of the time between shots and the issues regarding single shots/double-tap.

When OP fired through the door he was shooting blind - he would have a vague idea of the direction in which the bullets would travel but little else. At the point of firing he could not guarantee that the person in the toilet was within a specific area. He could just presume that the target was behind the door.

Let's suppose he took a bit of the top half of the door out so he could see where Reeva was inside. This still does not help him much, as we know he didn't put the gun through a slot, aimed and fired. He still shot through the door. He cannot have his head looking through a slot and the gun in the same position, as he would have shot Reeva directly, and there would be no bullet hole in the door.

Anybody who has fired a gun would know that to aim a shot with any accuracy you need to stick your hands in front of you, and look along the top of the gun, which gives you your line of sight for the target. Again, that is only useful if you can see your target. If not, you may as well close your eyes and fire.

If he could see Reeva, he had to be shooting from the hip, like the old gunslinger's did in the western movies (similar to where they walk 10 paces, turn around and fire).
This type of shooting is notably inaccurate and people are never trained to shoot this way. For this reason shooting from the hip has mainly be consigned to movie-land.
He could be lucky and hit the person on the other side of the door, but he certainly couldn't guarantee to hit a specific part of the body.

What makes the theory that OP could have selected a shot to head even more unbelievable is the ballistics expert testimony.
He suggested that Reeva received a shot to the hip and that is what brought her down.
That could well be the correct order of shots, but again I stress that OP could not know where the bullets were landing.

Let's again suppose he took a bit of the top half of the door out so he could see where Reeva was inside. Again, he would need to shoot from the hip.
His first shot could hit Reeva in the hip, but there is no guarantee that he can hit her in the head with any remaining shots.
He would need to watch her fall, and as she's falling aim a shot through the door with the gun by his side, at the exact time that Reeva's head moves towards the floor.
This type of shot would be virtually impossible.

As yet I can't determine the order of the shots, or whether OP knew Reeva was behind the door.
What I am convinced about is that OP did not specifically choose where the bullets went. This was purely a random nature of shooting through the door.
I believe it would be almost impossible to for OP to have selected a particular shot in order to stifle a scream etc.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I thought the pathologist, Dr Saayman, said that she could only have taken two or three breaths after the head shot?

This is difficult because there's no record of him actually speaking - we've only got what people reported him to say.

With respect to the pathologist's comments, I found this; hope it helps.

"No blood was found in her airways, suggesting she breathed only a few times before dying."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-mortem-evidence-graphic.html#ixzz2xdmnmUWO
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[soozieqtips]

Well, that is strange to me and a huge error by the police, unless it's common to only get statements from witnesses and not the accused in SA.

The photos were already used, jus not explained.

Your quote is broken too. You've quoted Viper's post and it's come out as your post. There must be a quote virus going around today! Now I'm losing the will to live. You've got your own quote under Viper's username. That's what I meant to say.

 

[nastasya]

Nobody testified she died in toilet?


Makes sense that OP would be on the phone as soon as he dragged body to bathroom at 3:19

No problems with the timeline presented by State witnesses at all. It fits with OP's version perfectly.. and so confirms it. I am sure there will be a lot more confirmation from Defense witnesses.

So you think it makes sense for killer to shoot victim, then wait 10 minutes to call for help?

 

[Trooper]

so it isn't an error by the SA police not to get a statement from Oscar.. he has the right not to give one, and with his lawyer there, that's it folks..

 

[Gryffindor]

Here's my theory why OP cannot have chosen to fire a specific shot to the head, and could not be sure where the shots would hit. This is irrespective of the time between shots and the issues regarding single shots/double-tap.

When OP fired through the door he was shooting blind - he would have a vague idea of the direction in which the bullets would travel but little else. At the point of firing he could not guarantee that the person in the toilet was within a specific area. He could just presume that the target was behind the door.

Let's suppose he took a bit of the top half of the door out so he could see where Reeva was inside. This still does not help him much, as we know he didn't put the gun through a slot, aimed and fired. He still shot through the door. He cannot have his head looking through a slot and the gun in the same position, as he would have shot Reeva directly, and there would be no bullet hole in the door.

Anybody who has fired a gun would know that to aim a shot with any accuracy you need to stick your hands in front of you, and look along the top of the gun, which gives you your line of sight for the target. Again, that is only useful if you can see your target. If not, you may as well close your eyes and fire.

If he could see Reeva, he had to be shooting from the hip, like the old gunslinger's did in the western movies (similar to where they walk 10 paces, turn around and fire).
This type of shooting is notably inaccurate and people are never trained to shoot this way. For this reason shooting from the hip has mainly be consigned to movie-land.
He could be lucky and hit the person on the other side of the door, but he certainly couldn't guarantee to hit a specific part of the body.

What makes the theory that OP could have selected a shot to head even more unbelievable is the ballistics expert testimony.
He suggested that Reeva received a shot to the leg and that is what brought her down.
That could well be the correct order of shots, but again I stress that OP could not know where the bullets were landing.

Let's again suppose he took a bit of the top half of the door out so he could see where Reeva was inside. Again, he would need to shoot from the hip.
His first shot could hit Reeva in the leg, but there is no guarantee that he can hit her in the head with any remaining shots.
He would need to watch her fall, and as she's falling aim a shot through the door with the gun by his side, at the exact time that Reeva's head moves towards the floor.
This type of shot would be virtually impossible.

As yet I can't determine the order of the shots, or whether OP knew Reeva was behind the door.
What I am convinced about is that OP did not specifically choose where the bullets went. This was purely a random nature of shooting through the door.
I believe it would be almost impossible to for OP to have selected a particular shot in order to stifle a scream etc.

Just FYI, not sure if you meant leg but 1st shot was the hip x

 

[Trooper]

So you think it makes sense for killer to shoot victim, then wait 10 minutes to call for help?

He had a lot of stuff to do , Nas..

 

[steveml]

Just FYI, not sure if you meant leg but 1st shot was the hip x

Thank you, yes hip is correct :thumb:

 

[Cherwell]

With respect to the pathologist's comments, I found this; hope it helps.

"No blood was found in her airways, suggesting she breathed only a few times before dying."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-mortem-evidence-graphic.html#ixzz2xdmnmUWO
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Thanks! I'd missed the detail about no blood in the airways.

I've just checked the reliable Juror 13 and she has it that Reeva "did not take more than a few breaths after suffering her head wound".

 

[nastasya]

But what would the other reason be, though .. why else would he be doing it?

To make sure her last words were not, "Oscar shot me...."

 

[DebinGA]

Thank you, yes hip is correct :thumb:

I think you and I differ that OP was "shooting blind" into the cubicle. I believe RS was screaming her head off at the time, giving him a good idea where she was.

 

[Mango33]

I don't know who said that, but it wasn't Dr Stipp . he gave no indication ,nor supposition, nor opinion as to why Oscar was doing this..merely that he was..

Im not saying that might not be a reason. what do I know?? I only state what Dr Stipp said himself.

The way Stipp's supposition about the fingers in the throat was reported as:

Johan Stipp, a doctor living nearby who rushed to the scene after hearing shots and ... “She was clenching down on Oscar's fingers as he was trying to open her airway,” he said.

That seems to be why people have remembered the idea of OPs fingers and clearing the airway.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...nd-prayed-for-Reeva-Steenkamp-not-to-die.html

 

[MeeBee]

Your quote is broken too. You've quoted Viper's post and it's come out as your post. There must be a quote virus going around today! Now I'm losing the will to live. You've got your own quote under Viper's username. That's what I meant to say.

I'm gonna blame viper on this one. His original quote to me was messed up and it just continued. Doesn't bother me though.

ETA: that's one's not my fault either lol.

 

[Gryffindor]

To make sure her last words were not, "Oscar shot me...."

Maybe he was trying to retrieve that missing watch?????

 

[Cherwell]

Your quote is broken too. You've quoted Viper's post and it's come out as your post. There must be a quote virus going around today! Now I'm losing the will to live. You've got your own quote under Viper's username. That's what I meant to say.

Re quotes!

These problems are usually caused by something small like a bracket being deleted accidentally. And if you quote someone's dodgy quoted post, the mistake will attach itself to yours as well.

I usually preview my posts so if anything like that shows up, I can correct it before posting.

There! fixed