Trial Discussion Thread #16

[MeeBee]

once someone has lawyerd up. even in the good old usa. the police don't get a statement.. that is, a statement at the station. Oscar had his pics taken at the station etc.. but by then his lawyer had arrived..

Oh, yes good point.

 

[steveml]

I think you and I differ that OP was "shooting blind" into the cubicle. I believe RS was screaming her head off at the time, giving him a good idea where she was.

That could well be possible. Although having a good idea that someone is behind a door is a lot different than knowing exactly where a persons moving head is, once it's falling towards the floor, behind a solid wood door, whilst on stumps.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I think the fact that there were 4 shots indicates that Oscar needed to ensure Reeva died. Apparently, as I am sure many of you know, dum dum bullets are made so that they stop quickly inside the body and all the kinetic energy is dispersed into surrounding flesh. This is why bullets that hit a body in an area without any vital organs can still kill. The kinetic energy damages the heart, liver, kidneys etc. Probably why the pathologist thought she could have died from any of these shots.

 

[steveml]

Re quotes!

These problems are usually caused by something small like a bracket being deleted accidentally. And if you quote someone's dodgy quoted post, the mistake will attach itself to yours as well.

I usually preview my posts so if anything like that shows up, I can correct it before posting.

There! fixed

Me too. If I didn't preview my posts before sending there's not a chance anyone would understand them. And I still manage to mess up :smile:

 

[steveml]

I think the fact that there were 4 shots indicates that Oscar needed to ensure Reeva died. Apparently, as I am sure many of you know, dum dum bullets are made so that they stop quickly inside the body and all the kinetic energy is dispersed into surrounding flesh. This is why bullets that hit a body in an area without any vital organs can still kill. The kinetic energy damages the heart, liver, kidneys etc. Probably why the pathologist thought she could have died from any of these shots.

I agree that the shots were without a doubt intended to kill whoever was behind that door.

 

[steveml]

I think Steve was clearing the idea that Oscar could actually see Reeva while shooting.

Thanks MeeBee,

Spot on, it was a long post just to say that, but I wanted to be sure in my own head that it all made logical sense. :thumb:

 

[MeeBee]

Thanks MeeBee,

Spot on, it was a long post just to say that, but I wanted to be sure in my own head that it all made logical sense. :thumb:

Lol, I wasn't sure if I was right so deleted the post. Whew!

 

[DebinGA]

That could well be possible. Although having a good idea that someone is behind a door is a lot different than knowing exactly where a persons moving head is, once it's falling towards the floor, behind a solid wood door, whilst on stumps.

OP shot until the screams coming from RS's moving head abruptly stopped. For some reason, as soon as the screams he didn't hear stopped, OP no longer felt threatened enough to keep firing.

 

[Viper]

Hey Viper - what's up with the broken quotes? It looks like you're a) replying to yourself... or b) using the wrong username in your own quote. Took me a minute or two to figure out I wasn't going nuts! :smile:

It was not me doing it. For some reason it is happening today, I don't know why. When I see it I go in and edit the post(s).

 

[Gryffindor]

That could well be possible. Although having a good idea that someone is behind a door is a lot different than knowing exactly where a persons moving head is, once it's falling towards the floor, behind a solid wood door, whilst on stumps.

I think he'd a fair idea target had moved downwards after the 2nd shot missed and likely hearing the stumble against the magazine rack, as the 3rd and 4th shots were in systematic decline from each other :-(

 

[nastasya]

Let's suppose he took a bit of the top half of the door out so he could see where Reeva was inside. This still does not help him much, as we know he didn't put the gun through a slot, aimed and fired. He still shot through the door. He cannot have his head looking through a slot and the gun in the same position, as he would have shot Reeva directly, and there would be no bullet hole in the door.

Try this scenario and see if it fits:

Killer's story is true... to a point.

He thinks intruder is in bathroom and shoots through door... one shot, hitting Reeva in the hip.

Reeva screams and he realizes he screwed up. She tells him he's crazy, and she's going to call police, etc. Maybe they fought earlier.

Killer breaks in door to try to save her. She keeps berating him while screaming and writhing in agony, threatening to call police, ruin him, etc.

Killer panics, snaps, whatever, and shoots her dead.

He calls Stander, then goes back and rips remaining panels from door, unlocks the door, and carries her downstairs.

Yes, he thought she was an intruder, and yes he intentionally killed her.

Possible based on evidence?

 

[patCee]

Try this scenario and see if it fits:

Killer's story is true... to a point.

He thinks intruder is in bathroom and shoots through door... one shot, hitting Reeva in the hip.

Reeva screams and he realizes he screwed up. She tells him he's crazy, and she's going to call police, etc. Maybe they fought earlier.

Killer breaks in door to try to save her. She keeps berating him while screaming and writhing in agony, threatening to call police, ruin him, etc.

Killer panics, snaps, whatever, and shoots her dead.

He calls Stander, then goes back and rips remaining panels from door, unlocks the door, and carries her downstairs.

Yes, he thought she was an intruder, and yes he intentionally killed her.

Possible based on evidence?

What happened to the 2nd and 3rd shot, otherwise could have happened that way.

 

[Viper]

That could well be possible. Although having a good idea that someone is behind a door is a lot different than knowing exactly where a persons moving head is, once it's falling towards the floor, behind a solid wood door, whilst on stumps.

The testimony is that after being hit in the hip Reeva fell back and down on the magazine rack, she then covered her head with both hands. Screaming in agony and terror no doubt; clearly OP targeted her screams and successful shot her in the upper arm and head - the same area that was producing the screams, the lower part of her her face - her mouth.

 

[Trooper]

I think he'd a fair idea target had moved downwards after the 2nd shot missed and likely hearing the stumble against the magazine rack, as the 3rd and 4th shots were in systematic decline from each other :-(

he was also uncannily accurate for one firing blindly and in overwhelming terror..

 

[patCee]

Try this scenario and see if it fits:

Killer's story is true... to a point.

He thinks intruder is in bathroom and shoots through door... one shot, hitting Reeva in the hip.

Reeva screams and he realizes he screwed up. She tells him he's crazy, and she's going to call police, etc. Maybe they fought earlier.

Killer breaks in door to try to save her. She keeps berating him while screaming and writhing in agony, threatening to call police, ruin him, etc.

Killer panics, snaps, whatever, and shoots her dead.

He calls Stander, then goes back and rips remaining panels from door, unlocks the door, and carries her downstairs.

Yes, he thought she was an intruder, and yes he intentionally killed her.

Possible based on evidence?

What happened to the 2nd and 3rd shot, otherwise could have happened that way.

Got it! 2nd or 3rd in the arm, one missed. Then 4th shot. You may have something there, if the sounds of shots fit with those the witness' heard.

 

[steveml]

OP shot until the screams coming from RS's moving head abruptly stopped. For some reason, as soon as the screams he didn't hear stopped, OP no longer felt threatened enough to keep firing.

It's plausible. I'm going to have another look at the order of shots/screaming again. I could be a while lol :smile:

 

[Gryffindor]

Got it! 2nd or 3rd in the arm, one missed. Then 4th shot. You may have something there.

My thought on your theory was purposely missing the 2nd shot, aiming into the corner tiles saying if she doesn't stop and let him help her, he will shoot again. He shoots the 2nd warning shot to avoid her but showing he's serious.

Screaming etc continues. 3rd shot. 4th shot :-(

Although in saying all that, the medic stated that the 1st hip shot alone would likely have proved fatal x

 

[Cherwell]

It was not me doing it. For some reason it is happening today, I don't know why. When I see it I go in and edit the post(s).

The source of the problem was post 120. Meebee quoted Viper, but somehow the quote closer got deleted, and this had a knock-on effect in every post that quoted that conversation.

By "quote closer" I mean this
[ /quote ]
except I have put spaces in to stop it from working!

 

[DebinGA]

It's plausible. I'm going to have another look at the order of shots/screaming again. I could be a while lol :smile:

Look forward to reading what you find.

 

[patCee]

My thought on your theory was purposely missing the 2nd shot, aiming into the corner tiles saying if she doesn't stop and let him help her, he will shoot again. He shoots the 2nd warning shot to avoid her but showing he's serious.

Screaming etc continues. 3rd shot. 4th shot :-(

Although in saying all that, the medic stated that the 1st hip shot alone would likely have proved fatal x

Yes, but I don't think the hip and arm wounds would be fatal immediately and survivable with fast medical attention, the head shot was quickly fatal.