Trial Thread 10 May 2012 - Judge's Instructions and maybe deliberations!

[nursebeeme]

RaffertyLFP Heeney said the accused must have applied deadly force and have meant to kill the victim to trigger a first degree conviction

what happened to aiding and abetting? huh? he is going to confuse these people

 

[robynhood]

AM980_Court Next decision tree is either in the event Rafferty killed Tori, or helped McClintic do it.

 

[CarrieBean]

Which is manslaughter according to the Judge? Wow....this is so confusing.


Didn't the Crown say it didn't matter who struck the hammer, they would be both guilty of 1st. Degree Murder?


OMG!

I'm definitely confused. Lets hope the Jury isn't.

 

[robynhood]

RaffertyLFP The third decision tree deals with the scenario that the jury can't determine if Rafferty was the main murderer or the aider or abettor

 

[robynhood]

..you are right very confusing IMO too!

 

[robynhood]

AveryFreeFMNews Judge shows jury a decision tree that is only to be used if jurors can't figure out if it was McClintic or #Rafferty who held the hammer.

 

[Flowercb]

For me I believe that the crown should have addressed the drug debt / gang issue head on. Having JG and the druggies TLM and MR were in connect with that day to testify that there was no animosity. That would have been evidence the jury could take into deliberation. MY believe is that by glossing over the drug debt theory and the gang connection leaves the door open to the possibility.

And for those that don't believe that TLM being a gang member is a viable theory have to understand that it isn't it goes directly to frame of mind rather then the actually intent. Being slighted even in the smallest way is considered the ultimate disrespect, retaliation is often violent and not thought out. Just because pedophile rape is easier to accept, for it was what was expected ... does not mean vidictiness is not a possibility.

Just my 2 cents.

There is no evidence of this, so they jury cannot take the drug theory into consideration--just comments from Derstine--which have to be disregarded. MOO!

 

[robynhood]

RaffertyLFP 10 minute recess

 

[nursebeeme]

I think he is giving this jury way too many examples... just give the basics imhoo

 

[Oldsoul2]

RaffertyLFP Heeney emphasizes to jury that the principal murderer or the aider and abettor are both guilty

Of 1st degree murder, if he aided in anyway which he did....don't worry peeps, they have someone in the jury room to go over this with them if they have any questions

 

[nursebeeme]

AveryFreeFMNews Judge shows jury a decision tree that is only to be used if jurors can't figure out if it was McClintic or #Rafferty who held the hammer.

laaawd have mercy... than what did he just say about aiding and abetting and being equally guilty?

 

[robynhood]

IMO...are we in the same court room and trail as I thought The CROWN said it does not matter WHO dealt the KILLINg blow by that darn hammer...IMO I am very confused....Help someone????...robynhood

 

[CarrieBean]

My husband is pretty up to date on VS trial; however in our business we see weird stuff all the time and shake our heads saying "never saw that coming or just when you thought you heard it all …".

My husband also works in the hotel business and has on many times driven guests, employees and even just strangers in need of assistance to the ferry, airport and even the hospital … with and without children … and a no time did he consider if the child was kidnapped.

I for one would never presume things to be factual until I have heard all sides and gathered evidence to prove or disprove, and even then I assume the possibility of error.

Sometimes it amazes me that some cannot perceive the overview or important things because of concentrating too much on minor details.

In this case, stopping for drugs and murder weapons and driving an unknown child to a remote location are no minor details. She didn't ask him to drive them to the ferry or the hospital. And not some stranger from the hotel, his girlfriend.

 

[CarrieBean]

See you all later. Thanks for the updates!

 

[otto]

I like a decision tree as a tool but it almost sounds too militant here! (moo)

I think it is used to ensure that the law is followed and to avoid the possibility that someone wants to offer a "what if" alternative theory that was not presented during testimony. That is, no one on the jury can claim that because they don't know what actually caused the death of Victoria, MR must be innocent.

 

[~n/t~]

LONDON, ONT.—There were no histrionics in the Crown’s closing arguments in the Tori Stafford murder trial. Just one message: Michael Rafferty and Terri-Lynne McClintic were in it together. Together, they abducted the little girl, together they killed her, together they cleaned up.

The two of them together.

“Don’t let anyone fool you into thinking they weren’t together,” said Crown Kevin Gowdey on Tuesday, adding that McClintic was Rafferty’s “violent pawn.”

He also said it doesn’t matter who wielded the hammer that killed Tori.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...ael-rafferty-was-mastermind-behind-the-murder


<insert head banging icon here>

 

[Oldsoul2]

laaawd have mercy... than what did he just say about aiding and abetting and being equally guilty?

IF they cant decide who struck the hammer, can they come to a unanimous decision that he aided and abeted her to strike it which would than make it 1st degree murder. IF they decide TLM did it, do they believe he did not participate at all. IF they believe he did it solely than theres nothing to talk about

 

[Sailor Bug]

Another interesting read

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/lrc/ll_lrc.nsf/pages/LRC_jrtw01

 

[Flowercb]

I am thankful this particular issue has been addressed

His whole defense is out the window now, no? MOO!

 

[~n/t~]

I think he is giving this jury way too many examples... just give the basics imhoo

I agree.