trial thread: 3/22/2012

[daisy.faithfull]

Interesting analysis of TLM by a forensic psychiatrist on last night's show - click on the video for March 21.

http://www.cbc.ca/connect/video.html

key things;

-possibly a psychopath - what distinguishes a female psychopath is a shallow emotion that can be very dramatic
-TLM cannot distinguish between truth and her lies
-fruitless to try and figure out when she's telling the truth
-admitted to be being involved in a horrible crime, won't be concerned with the -triviality of truth and the oath.
-she says what she needs to say to move on, very much identified with a criminal and deviant mindset
- is it fantasy or is she a legit gang member, in his professional opinion it doesn't matter, it's how a person identifies, if she's a wannabe gang because in many instances gang wannabe's can be that much more dangerous because they have to at some point demonstrate they're bona fides.

On tonight's show (which isn't posted on the website yet) they had a legal expert on that stated that if the jury believe's TLM's testimony that SHE killed Tori, they could find MR guilty of a lesser charge (sex assault and kidnapping only) or also acquit him. He said that anything is possible. Also, I think he said the Crown would have to prove MR acted with a guilty mind in order for the jury to convict him of first degree if he did not physically murder Tori.
All shocking and new information for me since I thought the charges were cut and dry, but since reading about how Cecilia Zhang's murderer had his charges reduced to second degree murder, I guess the expert was right, anything is possible.

You must have written to when I was writing my post. Thanks, because I was going to post more about Dr. Werner's comments related to gang involvement.

 

[Ardy]

MR was by all accounts a fairly normal guy. His friends were shocked at the revelation of the charges against him. Even his mother's boyfriend, whom didn't get along with MR, was surprised at the charges.

I doubt anyone who encountered TLM along life's path is terribly surprised.

TLM is a monster, created by societal neglect perhaps, but a monster nonetheless.

As for "manipulation"........she is the expert, given her years of experience with probation officers, counsellors, social workers, law enforcement and the Crown attorney, (whom she convinced her "confession" was true.)

While TLM is playing boss of the range, MR is crying in his cell because other inmates are yelling at him.

Who is the more likely manipulator?

 

[dilbert]

:what: Wow! Interesting! Bolded above. Do you have a link for TM's testimony Dilbert? I would like to read that further. TIA

Linda Nguyen@LindaNguyenPN
She says McClintic called her partner James Goris a few times upset bc they didn't want their dog to breed with hers #ToriStafford #Rafferty

2:29 PM - 7 Mar 12via Twitter for BlackBerry®· Details

 

[swedie]

There is no such letter to Tara, I'm talking about the letters that TLM wrote in jail in 2008 about how she didn't like people who dissed her family. Derstine is trying to show that TLM is vengeful and it is my opinion that it's possible that TLM felt dissed by TM and JG when TM turned down the offer to breed her dog with CM's.

MOO

Sorry but that doesn't make sense according to your post 402. :what:You wrote: (TM testified that CM called her and JG and was quite upset that they didn't want to breed their dogs)

 

[matou]

Where is the letter she was angry at her mother before she assaulted her? JMO

@RaffertyLFP

• McClintic letter vows violence against her own mother "At that time I had a lot of anger - we were fighting" had assaulted her mother twice

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Sorry but that doesn't make sense according to your post 402. :what:You wrote: (TM testified that CM called her and JG and was quite upset that they didn't want to breed their dogs)

TM is Tori's mother, not McClintic

 

[dilbert]

@RaffertyLFP

• McClintic letter vows violence against her own mother "At that time I had a lot of anger - we were fighting" had assaulted her mother twice

Interesting, so she wasn't all talk after all.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

@RaffertyLFP

• McClintic letter vows violence against her own mother "At that time I had a lot of anger - we were fighting" had assaulted her mother twice

Any one of the letters she wrote could have been about TM, just because she didn't write her name in the letter doesn't mean one of the letters wasn't about being angry towards TM - jmo

 

[nursebeeme]

@RaffertyLFP

• McClintic letter vows violence against her own mother "At that time I had a lot of anger - we were fighting" had assaulted her mother twice

this part of the cross was very good at illustrating that TLM not only has it in her for violence but she actually IS violent... ((shudder)) eta: didn't they say today that her mother had vision loss or something like that from her assault?

btw, I made the new thread for tomorrow... I hope everyone has a great evening and is enjoying all this warm weather

 

[nursebeeme]

Interesting, so she wasn't all talk after all.

I owe you a coke dilbert (I didn't see you had just said the same thing)

 

[matou]

Any one of the letters she wrote could have been about TM, just because she didn't write her name in the letter doesn't mean one of the letters wasn't about being angry towards TM - jmo

She wrote those letters in 2008. JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

MR was by all accounts a fairly normal guy. His friends were shocked at the revelation of the charges against him. Even his mother's boyfriend, whom didn't get along with MR, was surprised at the charges.

I doubt anyone who encountered TLM along life's path is terribly surprised.

TLM is a monster, created by societal neglect perhaps, but a monster nonetheless.

As for "manipulation"........she is the expert, given her years of experience with probation officers, counsellors, social workers, law enforcement and the Crown attorney, (whom she convinced her "confession" was true.)

While TLM is playing boss of the range, MR is crying in his cell because other inmates are yelling at him.

Who is the more likely manipulator?

We don't know enough about MTR's history yet to say whether or not he is more or less of a manipulator than TLM. We have heard quite a bit more about the very dark side of TLM, there's much more to come.

Before the cross examination I was more inclined to believe that MTR was more the manipulator. Knowing more about TLM I can see that it is less likely that TLM needed much manipulating to do what she did and more likely to believe they were possibly equal partners, equally manipulating.

I don't think that TLM is playing boss of the range anymore, maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't think it would be too safe for a woman who has done what she has in general population.

 

[dilbert]

I owe you a coke dilbert (I didn't see you had just said the same thing)

Make it diet, lol eace:

 

[swedie]

Exactly. That's what I've been trying to get at. Who cares if she was listening to music on her IPOD or what she was listening to. She admitted to all kinds of horrific details. She admitted guilt. She said she murdered Tori. How much more do we need to know? Does it really matter if she targeted Tori because there were alleged rumours in Woodstock about Tara and James having a drug debt? :waitasec:

The defense is just trying to drag as much dirty dirt out on TLM just to make her look like the evil person that we already know she is. They are trying desperately to plant that seed of reasonable doubt to the jurors, making it look like this murder was initiated, and carried out by TLM and she's trying to point a finger at MR because she's the jilted lover.

They are not done yet though. They're going to try and show what a wonderful guy MR was by being MR's friend, how he was lied to by TLM and he didn't know she planned on abducting Tori, sexual assaulting her and murdering her. He was just this naive friend who thought TLM was babysitting Tori that day and needed to go to Guelph to buy items to repair her mom's house, so he decided to stop at Timmies to buy a picnic supper for them to take to one of his favourite childhood picnic spots in MF. Little did he know TLM was planning on murdering Tori. Oh and he couldn't call for help because he lost the battery for his phone and then TLM attacked him with the hammer causing him to have amnesia and forgetting everything that happened to Tori, therefore he couldn't report it... :floorlaugh: Sorry just had to have a silly moment, this case is crazy and I think going to get crazier before the fat lady sings.

Yes I'm patiently waiting :waiting: to hear their big spun story for MR's defense. Doesn't matter how they spin it, he was there, it happened. :moo::cow:

 

[captaincanada]

MR was by all accounts a fairly normal guy. His friends were shocked at the revelation of the charges against him. Even his mother's boyfriend, whom didn't get along with MR, was surprised at the charges.

I doubt anyone who encountered TLM along life's path is terribly surprised.

TLM is a monster, created by societal neglect perhaps, but a monster nonetheless.

As for "manipulation"........she is the expert, given her years of experience with probation officers, counsellors, social workers, law enforcement and the Crown attorney, (whom she convinced her "confession" was true.)

While TLM is playing boss of the range, MR is crying in his cell because other inmates are yelling at him.

Who is the more likely manipulator?

Not necessarily true. MTR is a known ladies man. These types may be very confident around women but not so much around men. From what I've read about him he seems very much like a poser and a whimp and a coward. More comfortable around women than men.

Conversely TLM has a hard image in female detention centers but she longed fir love and attention. As MTR reportedly told her, "you'd do anything for a bit of love". She fell for MTR at a pizza joint only to hours later have sex with him.

I believe MTR could have manipulated her and he was far from a "normal guy".

 

[snoofer]

Recalls how Ted Bundy was called a seemingly normal individual and very charismatic. Think murderers can come in all kind of different packaging..some overtly abnormal individuals and some covertly abnormal individuals. The evidence is going to be paramount in this case to determine WHAT happened and WHO did what. IMO

 

[roseofsharon]

Am I allowed to post what another woman has posted under his picture on another site?

 

[nettie_82]

Did Rodney not do a press conference today? I don't see it on the LFP website.

 

[nursebeeme]

Am I allowed to post what another woman has posted under his picture on another site?

no.. we cannot copy and paste comments. That being said you can link to the photo and say 'check out the comments' (but we cannot discuss comments as they are not considered facts)

hth

 

[KMouse]

Well I believe it is relevant as Derstine might be insinuating that TLM may have known Tori for longer than TLM is saying... how has not been established yet.

Derstine doesn't have to establish it. He just has to plant a seed and hope it takes off.
I don't believe his attempt at painting TLM as a criminal mastermind is going to fly.