trial thread: 3/22/2012

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  • #461
If there is one thing I've learned so far, it's that Terry Lynne McClintic has a reason to be vengeful. Against an awful lot of people, starting within her own family. What we have also learned in the past couple of days is that she has never kidnapped or killed any of them. With the exception of her mother, she has never even assaulted any of her "enemies" outside of prison walls.

She has been sexually assaulted by likely more than one man in her youth, with her "mother" turning a blind eye to it. We've read news articles from people who knew her and her mother, who painted her mother as pretty abusive towards her growing up. So she did finally assault her, twice, but she never hacked her up and mutilated her. Her father pretty much abandoned her but she's never sought him out for revenge. She's spent years in detention centres where it's a fight for respect every day I'm sure...but she's never tried to get her "crips posse" together to take revenge out on anyone after getting out. None of the people who have made TLM's life a living hell were ever abducted, assaulted and killed by TLM.

So why would a perceived snubb by some woman who decided not to breed her dog with her mother's dog set off an act so vengeful that not only did she bypass the person or persons who had actually ticked her off, she went straight to their 8 year old innocent daughter?

It's going to take a whole lot of psychiatric experts to explain that one to me.

But whatever the motive, which so far I am not convinced was anything other than sexual, the question is, what is the point of the defence strategy? Either MR was there or he wasn't.

MOO

Thank you! So relieved someone else questions the defence strategy so far! I hope the prosecutors will remind this jury that all that needs to be proven is MR was there! At Mt. Forest and not in Hawaii sipping margaritas!
 
  • #462
You're missing the whole point of what the picture the defense is trying to paint. These aren't ill-thought out questions, they are all relevant to their defense. Today was very interesting. Let me give you the take on what the defense is doing IN MY OPINION. They are trying to paint a picture of MTR as completely innocent.

(Respectfully snipped for brevity.)

Thank you, Captain, for this well-thought-out response. I was in the midst of typing one addressing the same question and didn't see yours before posting. Glad to see that others are aware of what Derstine is trying to do here.

As we wrote, he's laying the groundwork for the defence. ALL of it is necessary to prove his points in the future. It will then be up to the jury to decide which parts they believe and which are irrelevant.

Derstine is no dummy; he knows exactly what he's doing and why.

JMO
 
  • #463
I don't know if this observation is relevant or not, but in the HD video, when TLM steps out of the vehicle, it appears she is putting her coat back on.

Just an observation and probably totally benign. :moo:
 
  • #464
Great discussions! Off to try out some of those facebook apps.
:floorlaugh:


:seeya:
 
  • #465
And he chose to not mention it to LE for six weeks...well forever actually? "Honestly officer, I thought we were just babysitting this kid and when I went to relieve myself on a tree, I came back and my girlfriend had blungeoned her to death with a hammer that she had asked me to take her to HD to buy. And I was so scared about getting blamed that I decided to let you guys spend hundreds of thousands of dollars looking for the child and I was kind of hoping you'd never figure it out."

Nope...can't see that one either. :waitasec:

MOO

Lol! Tongue in cheek! The unsuspecting dupe (or is that "dope")! Good one!
 
  • #466
Thank you! So relieved someone else questions the defence strategy so far! I hope the prosecutors will remind this jury that all that needs to be proven is MR was there! At Mt. Forest and not in Hawaii sipping margaritas!

I don't think it's as simple as that. First off, the defence is trying to prove MTR wasn't there, and he going about it by attacking TLM's credibility.
 
  • #467
I believe that any lawyer who was familiar with this case would know exactly where Derstine was going with this and why. Derstine is a highly reputable and successful attorney and there is a reason for everything. I’m no lawyer, but it seems pretty obvious to me where at least some of this leading. Just a couple of examples off the top of my head:

All those letters and journal entries TLM wrote describing in graphic detail her fantasies of torturing, murdering, and generally inflicting harm on just about anyone who crosses her (and their familes!) are a direct contradiction of her claim now that she “didn't want to believe she was capable if this”, that she “did not have murder on (her) mind”, etc., etc. Her previous assaults on her mother, in detention, and her conviction for a stabbing are further proof that she was capable of it and had ‘murder on her mind” on a regular basis.

The journal entry with her “script” of what she’ll say if questioned by LE further contradicts that she blocked the crime out of her mind.


This answer was today! Her journal says otherwise. According to that entry less than four days after the murder, she prepared for the eventuality of being questioned about it.

Her connection to TM and JG are to indicate that Tori was targeted and not a random choice.

“"326 students at Oliver Stephens Public School that day," Derstine says. "And (Tori) was the one you picked to talk to?".

“"And you just happened to know her parents?" Derstine says.

"And that she had a shih tzu was just a crazy coincidence?"
.

I believe this is to set the groundwork to suggest that the abduction was TLM's idea and not MTR's. SHE was the one who had the connection, SHE was the one who may have had a revenge motive (either the dog breeding or a drug debt), SHE was the one who was caught abducting Tori on camera. There has been no proof that MTR knew this family at all. Derstine came right out and said it:




If Derstine can prove over and over again that TLM is a big fat liar, that she’s the “murderous b***h” she repeatedly called herself, it raises doubt about the extent of MTR’s involvement, including whose idea it was. Without direct DNA evidence, or a whole truckload of circumstantial ones, the jury only needs reasonable doubt to acquit MTR. Until we see such evidence, Derstine has done a fine job of raising doubt about everything TLM has said so far. Unless I’m mistaken, his next card might be the jealousy and revenge angle on TLM’s part.

I, too, find this all damned fascinating and have complete trust that an experienced attorney knows precisely what he’s doing here. This trial is supposed to last perhaps as long as three months. We've only had three weeks so far. Patience is a virtue. ;)

JMO

I agree to a certain extent. I don't think that we can know what evidence Derstein has as far as proving that MTR did not know Tara or James, or anything else for that matter. Of course we don't know exactly what evidence the Crown has either, but in their opening statements they said that they have forensics, video etc. Comparitivly speaking we know zippy do da about what the defense has.
 
  • #468
What filth that song is...
Looking forward to a bath...

What a day!!

I agree. Necro's music is so disturbing and I after listening to a wee tad bit of a couple his songs, I feel he's had a huge factor on TLM's writing and image. Yep bath time. :D I posted this information on the thread from yesterday but will post it here again should anyone be interested. IMHO this type of music should not be permitted or only allowed to be purchased by mature individuals. There's a rating on all the games such as Xbox and PS3, this should apply to some music also. Unfortunately it's out there on the interest for anyone to listen to. Young minds can be influenced so easily. BTW I'm sure the Crown will suggest to the jurors, TLM was influenced by Necro in many of her writings. I mentioned on the other thread also, we have heard MR was into hip hop, wonder if he also enjoyed Necro. Maybe another thing he and TLM had in common. The day they abducted Tori, they were listening to much dance until MR took the CD out to listen to the radio to see if there was any missing children reports out.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...es+stand+against+boyfriend/6291529/story.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necro_(rapper)

:what:For anyone interested in adding him as a "friend" on FB, here's the link. Just kidding. :rocker:
Necro's Offical FB page
https://www.facebook.com/necrohiphop?sk=wall
 
  • #469
For all we know, they were out for a drive ... he pulled over to have a whizz, over by the trees, and when he turned around TLM had murdered TS? We will have to wait until the trial unfolds and more evidence comes out.

Or they took her to be "mildly vindictive" with plans to return her later, just to put a scare in her mother. Drive around, get some drugs, stop at HD (he doesn't know what she bought... she put it in the trunk), park in a rural area to do some drugs, TLM takes Tori to the front of the car to pee and then kills her. Then he's "in it as far as she is".

I don't really believe any of that, but many seem to be playing devil's advocate tonight.
 
  • #470
Linda Nguyen @LindaNguyenPN Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
McC replies: "I walked with her and talked to her. The way we were talking, like she followed me like a dog follows its owner." #Rafferty

Sure would like a psychiatrist's analysis of that comment.
 
  • #471
Why is it always "mildly vindictive" and not mildly vindictive?
 
  • #472
If there is one thing I've learned so far, it's that Terry Lynne McClintic has a reason to be vengeful. Against an awful lot of people, starting within her own family. What we have also learned in the past couple of days is that she has never kidnapped or killed any of them. With the exception of her mother, she has never even assaulted any of her "enemies" outside of prison walls.

She has been sexually assaulted by likely more than one man in her youth, with her "mother" turning a blind eye to it. We've read news articles from people who knew her and her mother, who painted her mother as pretty abusive towards her growing up. So she did finally assault her, twice, but she never hacked her up and mutilated her. Her father pretty much abandoned her but she's never sought him out for revenge. She's spent years in detention centres where it's a fight for respect every day I'm sure...but she's never tried to get her "crips posse" together to take revenge out on anyone after getting out. None of the people who have made TLM's life a living hell were ever abducted, assaulted and killed by TLM.

So why would a perceived snubb by some woman who decided not to breed her dog with her mother's dog set off an act so vengeful that not only did she bypass the person or persons who had actually ticked her off, she went straight to their 8 year old innocent daughter?

It's going to take a whole lot of psychiatric experts to explain that one to me.

But whatever the motive, which so far I am not convinced was anything other than sexual, the question is, what is the point of the defence strategy? Either MR was there or he wasn't.

MOO

Am I understanding correctly that beating up your own mother to the point of partially blinding her in one eye is not a consideration here? That repeated altercations in a detention centre don't count for some reason? That the fact that TLM had at least three previous assault charges in 2006 alone is an indication that she wasn't capable of more drastic violence?

Cristina Tenaglia‏@cristina_CHCHTV

#McClintic spent quite a bit of time in jail for at least 3 diff assault charges in 2006


McClintic approached two men waving a knife and demanding money or drugs. She stabbed one of them, and when police arrived she refused to drop her weapon even though police had their guns drawn. She also got into a physical altercation with the officers, punching one in the face.

There is just no disputing the fact that this girl was a dangerous menace to anyone and capable of much, much worse than what she managed to accomplish in her short life of 18 years when she brutally murdered TS. IMO, she was well on her way to fulfilling the rest of her well-documented fantasies. Thankfully, she was stopped before could go even further.

Was MR there? If so, why was he there? We'll just have to be patient until the lawyers get to that. In the meantime, I trust they're doing their jobs.

JMO
 
  • #473
For all we know, they were out for a drive ... he pulled over to have a whizz, over by the trees, and when he turned around TLM had murdered TS? We will have to wait until the trial unfolds and more evidence comes out.

Between CaptainCanada's post and yours..............I am starting to believe this scenario may not be as implausible as would once be thought.

Through the cross examination of TLM, we have learned that it is unlikely she could be easily manipulated by MR. Her previous long record of stabbings, assaults and general outlook on life illustrate she was fully capable of just about anything. She was "boss" in the jailhouse..........and that takes more than a wimpy follower type of personality.

As TLM placed the purchases at Home Depot directly into the trunk.......did MR even know what was in the HD bag?

Is it possible, that the scenic route back to Woodstock put them down country back roads.......MR stopped for a whiz and went of the road into some bushes.........came back and found that TLM had done the crime?

Then, she threatened to name him as the one who did it........he panicked and helped hide the body.

If he helped hide the body...........would he then call the police and say he panicked and what he did. Would he think they would believe him?

If this scenario was true..............would his situation be any different than it is today?

After all........up until January 2012..........the police were convinced by TLM that MR did the crime. Why would they not be convinced if he called the police and TLM said he did it?

She is very good at what she does.

To those who are impatient at the depth of questioning and the pace of the trial.............even RS has expressed concern about getting the full truth.

By delving far more deeply into the facts, defence lawyer Derstine is actually delivering to RS a better chance at finding out the truth he seeks.
 
  • #474
Sure would like a psychiatrist's analysis of that comment.

Dehumanizing Tori? If you interpret it that way it flies in the face of TLM's story that she was there comforting Tori etc.
 
  • #475
Why is it always "mildly vindictive" and not mildly vindictive?

huh? lol

You mean why is it in quotes? Because TM said in a presser maybe someone took Tori to be "mildly vindictive". And I believe she said that right after she got wind of TLM looking like the girl in the video (but I'm not sure of that).
 
  • #476
  • #477
huh? lol

You mean why is it in quotes? Because TM said in a presser maybe someone took Tori to be "mildly vindictive". And I believe she said that right after she got wind of TLM looking like the girl in the video (but I'm not sure of that).

:what:Got it, thanks!
 
  • #478
Why is it always "mildly vindictive" and not mildly vindictive?

Lol! So true! My excuse is a broken writ... I am casted annd the danb cast holds min fingers tight and keeps hi8tting the keyboard, posting takes e a while lmo!!!
 
  • #479
Connect with Mark Kelly on CBC will discuss the defence`s strategy in the trial of MTR
 
  • #480
Lol! So true! My excuse is a broken writ... I am casted annd the danb cast holds min fingers tight and keeps hi8tting the keyboard, posting takes e a while lmo!!!

I hope you get better soon! And thanks for the giggle, I smiled to when you said that the defence could do a soft shoe routine if they wanted... I thought of Richard Gere in "Chicago" and Nancy Grace on DWTS :)
 
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