trial thread: 3/22/2012

[roseofsharon]

no.. we cannot copy and paste comments. That being said you can link to the photo and say 'check out the comments' (but we cannot discuss comments as they are not considered facts)

hth

Thanks Nurse -- I'll try. It doesn't pertain to this case, but I found it to be interesting.

 

[antiquegirl]

Not necessarily true. MTR is a known ladies man. These types may be very confident around women but not so much around men. From what I've read about him he seems very much like a poser and a whimp and a coward. More comfortable around women than men.

Conversely TLM has a hard image in female detention centers but she longed fir love and attention. As MTR reportedly told her, "you'd do anything for a bit of love". She fell for MTR at a pizza joint only to hours later have sex with him.

I believe MTR could have manipulated her and he was far from a "normal guy".

Sorry, but I don't see how a "poser, wimp and coward" equal a manipulator. Sounds more to me like one who's easily manipulated.

But I don't disagree with your analysis of his character. From what I've heard, he was desperate for a serious relationship, kept either choosing the wrong type of woman (TLM, for one), or screwing up those with better quality women. I don't believe for one minute that he considered TLM to be relationship material and I don't believe he led her on, either. I DO believe that she may have been completely delusional about where they stood. If it's true that he used her for drugs and (very little) sex, than I believe it's equally true that she used him for her own purposes - mainly to feel that she was worthy of better men than the "thugs" she said she used to date.

As for that "engagement ring" story? TLM is on record for pawning CM's jewellery to help with living expenses.

"Carol McClintic also made quick cash by pawning jewelry and other items at downtown stores."

http://www.canada.com/Terri+Lynne+McClintic+lost+soul+didn+stand+chance+life/3951599/story.html

She even visited Pawn Tario the same day she met MTR (02/04/09).

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf

I suspect he once drove her to the pawn shop to hock something and while she was there, she playfully asked to try on a ring. It had no more significance, IMO.

RaffertyLFP:

Derstine ask McClintic about her relationship with Rafferty She said they once tried on an engagement ring at a pawn shop

Avery Moore‏@AveryFreeFMNews

#Rafferty raises his eyebrows as McClintic suggests he mentioned maybe marrying her one day.

JMO

 

[matou]

Adrian Morrow ‏
Before the test, McClintic spoke with Michael Rafferty, who told her not to call him anymore, she said.

Interesting. She was calling him. Was he calling her? Can inmates receive calls in juvie?

Can someone explain to me about the lie detector test? TIA

 

[Flowercb]

You're missing the whole point of what the picture the defense is trying to paint. These aren't ill-thought out questions, they are all relevant to their defense. Today was very interesting. Let me give you the take on what the defense is doing IN MY OPINION. They are trying to paint a picture of MTR as completely innocent.

Here is the picture they COULD be trying to paint.

TLM is an extremely VIOLENT person.
TLM is a LIAR and very manipulative (she managed to resist police questioning).
TLM is an extremely VENGEFUL person.
TLM is a hard gang banger (or thinks she is).
TLM has already admitted to killing Tori.

TLM knew TM and JG (again this is what I think the defense could be implying).

TLM targeted Tori for ______ insert reason here: (drug debt owed by TM or JG, revenge for getting screwed around with dog breeding etc.)

TLM planned and set up the whole thing and MTR was simply an unknowing accomplice.

MTR was told by TLM to pick her up at the Caressant Care Nursing Home at a certain time.

TLM meanwhile followed Tori from school (notice how the defense was insinuating that TLM was NOT having a conversation with Tori but rather just walking in front of her or that Tori was following her?) This would go in line that Tori knew TLM and TLM was telling her to follow her. Perhaps TLM would have said, "come with me, your mom is at my place". TLM knowing Tori implies that she knew TM and JG and therefore vengeful reason for killing Tori can be implied.

TLM was listening to hardcore violent rap "Creepy Crawl by Necro" before abducting Tori in order to pysche herself up.

Tori follows TLM to the car and gets in.
TLM tells MTR to go to Guelph.
TLM tells Tori that she is bringing her to her parents.
MTR gets his Tim Hortons and visits his drug dealer (who could be so non-chalent after abducting a child??)
TLM instructs MTR to go to Home Depot because she has to pick something up.
After Home Depot TLM then kills Tori in the back seat of the car and makes MTR help get rid of her body by implying that he's deep into this and threatens his life and his family's if he doesn't aid her.
MTR drives her to Mount Forest to help her get rid of the body.

MTR did nothing but get mixed up with the wrong person. TLM is the one walking on video with Tori and the one on video buying the hammer and garbage bags. TLM is the KNOWN violent, manipulative LIAR, not MTR.


(This, or something like this, is about the only defense I can see for MTR, even though it is a weak one)

Excellent Post!:goldcrown:

 

[robynhood]

....man this defense makes me very very sick ! I am praying and I strongly BELIEVE as the CROWn stated in his opening statements that MR.Rafferty was involved in the abuction of Tori ! ...a back seat of a car goes missing....hmmm...his blackberry traces him to the area where Tori was murdered!.....hmm is the defense going to say next that Michael Rafferty was not in that car and that his cellphone was stolen.....Hmmmmmmm time shall tell ....AGAIN all that needs to be PROVEN was he was there and they acted TOGETHER....Ontario I do PRAY THAT this gets SOLVED and the guilty and are taken away & NEVER ever see the light of day as our children are at RISK! ...As TORI"S dad comments this is ALL ABOUT HIS DAUGHTER TORI ! I want to the streets clean so another kids is not hurt in such a HORRENDOUS MANNER! ....this is not about TORI"S MOM or her boyfriend .....and I feel all that went on today is the DEFENSE grabbing @ straws ! MAY THE EVIDENCE PLEASE show the TRUTH and may those who did such evil ....get Justice ! ....I want to see Tori's FAMILY left out of this ....THEY HAVE SUFFERED ENOUGH! ....Ontario please serve JUSTICE ....MAY WE BAN TOGETHER to see JUSTICE for TORI as this is definitely what this is all about !
.......Do the members here NOT AGREE>>>>?
...amen ...MAY GOD BE Watching OVER AS i AM SURE tori is AND MAY SHE r.i.p ! .....THANKS ROBYNHOOD ..Justice for Tori ...PLEASE!

 

[swedie]

The relevance of whether she was listening to music is that she told one story to the police, that she was listening to music, then on the stand said she was talking to Tori.
The parent that was a witness testified and said TLM and Tori were NOT talking.

Why would TLM say on the stand that she was talking to Tori when she really wasn't? Is she lying about that too? Someone said this before, but if the defence can prove she's still lying on the stand about certain things, then it's possible that she's lying about other things too, like the motive for the kidnapping for example. (more reasonable doubt)

MOO

TLM and Tori had a bit of a hike from the school to the nursing home parking lot where MR was waiting for them in his car. So it very well could have been during that brief moment they passed this witness TLM and Tori weren't talking. Just because TLM has told many lies in the past, doesn't mean she's lying now on the stand. Maybe now with much counselling in prison, TLM turned over a new leaf in life, and knowing she's going to be there a very long time, she figures she's going to be truthful because she does not want to see MR get off of at least sexual assault, which I believe whole heartedly MR sexually assaulted Tori. Hopefully forensic evidence will be able to prove this.lease::moo:

 

[captaincanada]

Sorry, but I don't see how a "poser, wimp and coward" equal a manipulator. Sounds more to me like one who's easily manipulated.

I was responding to him crying when other prisoners yelled at him.

He can be a poser, whimp and a coward around men but be manipulative to others that he is not afraid of e.g. females or younger persons.

Every pedophile is a coward. None would dare take advantage of someone that could fight back. JMO

 

[swedie]

People's Court doesnt count LOL! (Jokin!!!) Its only in the last few months that tweets have even been allowed in a courtroom - starting with the infamous R. Williams.... so quite often the public gets bits and pieces or dribbles of info - not nearly the amount of info as now, nor nearly as quickly. The defence attorney can ask pretty much what he likes, so long as it is in line with the forms filed prior to the court date. I haven't heard the Crown object to a single thing!!!

And the defence team can play music if they like (remember Dianne Downs Crazy Like the Wolf???). They can even do a soft shoe routine if they like!

Lol Peoples Court, I love judge Woopner. :rocker: The group was Duran Duran, "Hungry like the wolf" Chachacha lol. Ever since that case, I cringe whenever I hear that song. Yes I remember that case very well. She was one sick momma. Uck so many sick people in this world sadly. Lock em up and throw away the key. :moo:

 

[dilbert]

TLM and Tori had a bit of a hike from the school to the nursing home parking lot where MR was waiting for them in his car. So it very well could have been during that brief moment they passed this witness TLM and Tori weren't talking. Just because TLM has told many lies in the past, doesn't mean she's lying now on the stand. Maybe now with much counselling in prison, TLM turned over a new leaf in life, and knowing she's going to be there a very long time, she figures she's going to be truthful because she does not want to see MR get off of at least sexual assault, which I believe whole heartedly MR sexually assaulted Tori. Hopefully forensic evidence will be able to prove this.lease::moo:

It's really not that far a distance, I used to walk it myself everyday when I went to Oliver Stephens school, in fact, we take our son tobogganing on the grassy hill that leads up to CASS from Oliver Stephens, it's certainly not a distance where one couldn't tell if two people were or were not talking to each other. IMO, she's lying about that part.

 

[KMouse]

And he chose to not mention it to LE for six weeks...well forever actually? "Honestly officer, I thought we were just babysitting this kid and when I went to relieve myself on a tree, I came back and my girlfriend had blungeoned her to death with a hammer that she had asked me to take her to HD to buy. And I was so scared about getting blamed that I decided to let you guys spend hundreds of thousands of dollars looking for the child and I was kind of hoping you'd never figure it out."

Nope...can't see that one either. :waitasec:

MOO

Exactly. If he had nothing to hide then he could have assisted LE with the investigation and he could ber the one up there testifying.
How does one explain things like removing the back seat of the car?

 

[Wondergirl]

BBM: So, according to this article, the latest version of events came up just days before the start of Rafferty's pretrial in January.

Did TLM see Rafferty in January?

Also, I can't believe that Derstine is using Facebook Quiz's in Rafferty's defence.

I wonder if that means MTR's Internet Postings, online interactions and instant messaging conversations etc. will be used as evidence by the Crown?

JMO

“I take full responsibility for my actions,” Terri-Lynne McClintic told court. “I did what I did. But I’m not the only guilty party here, and that’s why I’m sitting here today.”

The jury has now seen how McClintic’s story about the events of April 8, 2009, the day Tori disappeared, has morphed from an all-out denial, to saying she was there but didn’t see how Tori died, to saying Rafferty raped Tori and then killed her using a hammer, to now saying it was she who inflicted the fatal blows.

The latest version of events first came up at a counselling session just days before the start of Rafferty’s pretrial in January, court heard.

Rafferty’s lawyer grilled McClintic on her credibility, suggesting that if his client’s trial were to be held next year the court would hear her say she “did more than just kill her.”

http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario...-mcclintic-says-at-tori-stafford-murder-trial

 

[KMouse]

Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

I think some of this may be related to some of today's testimony. JMO

Any idea what part and how?

 

[maxfactor]

BBM: So, according to this article, the latest version of events came up just days before the start of Rafferty's pretrial in January.

Did TLM see Rafferty in January?

Also, I can't believe that Derstine is using Facebook Quiz's in Rafferty's defence.

I wonder if that means MTR's Internet Postings, online interactions and instant messaging conversations etc. will be used as evidence by the Crown?

JMO

I was wondering also what happened in January to make her change her story, she wouldn't be allowed to see him but may have had a letter or 3 way call. Seems very strange to me.:moo:

 

[matou]

It's really not that far a distance, I used to walk it myself everyday when I went to Oliver Stephens school, in fact, we take our son tobogganing on the grassy hill that leads up to CASS from Oliver Stephens, it's certainly not a distance where one couldn't tell if two people were or were not talking to each other. IMO, she's lying about that part.

How could she know? Wasn't her own kid approaching her at that time and was she likely talking to her child and not paying attention to TLM and Tori walking up the hill after they walked by. JMO

 

[snoofer]

So diabolical is this TLM..crocodile tears for the child of a rape that she could have stopped or prevented...and then killed her! She is delusional IMO if she thinks what she offered Tori was any sort of kindness ie I held her hand etc...that just makes her more diabolical. That poor poor child and her family. TLM has one messed up brain and aside from being evil...really her brain is broken in a dangerous way to anyone she comes across IMO. If the prosecution can proove that MTR was indeed a participant then it is just plain scarey how two sick individuals like that can find each other. How many more are out there like this??? That two people like that can so easily find each other and link up.

 

[antiquegirl]

BBM: So, according to this article, the latest version of events came up just days before the start of Rafferty's pretrial in January.

(BBM)

Did TLM see Rafferty in January?

Also, I can't believe that Derstine is using Facebook Quiz's in Rafferty's defence.

I wonder if that means MTR's Internet Postings, online interactions and instant messaging conversations etc. will be used as evidence by the Crown?

JMO

This would take some research or a legal expert, but IMHO, I doubt that two people accused of the same crime, both incarcerated, one awaiting trial, would be allowed to even write to each other, much less talk on the phone, or see each other in person. I'd bet quite a bit of money on this. If anyone knows the law about this, I'd love to hear it.

JMO

 

[matou]

Oh there are many many lies I am seeing and more to come no doubt. JMO

 

[maxfactor]

It's really not that far a distance, I used to walk it myself everyday when I went to Oliver Stephens school, in fact, we take our son tobogganing on the grassy hill that leads up to CASS from Oliver Stephens, it's certainly not a distance where one couldn't tell if two people were or were not talking to each other. IMO, she's lying about that part.

Just goes to show how two people can have such varying opinions on the same thing, I walked that hill everyday too, and spent lunch hours standing at the corner by CASS( smokers corner lol) and I don't think you could tell at all if two people were talking coming up the hill unless they were turning to look at each other as they spoke.

 

[maxfactor]

This would take some research or a legal expert, but IMHO, I doubt that two people accused of the same crime, both incarcerated, one awaiting trial, would be allowed to even write to each other, much less talk on the phone, or see each other in person. I'd bet quite a bit of money on this. If anyone knows the law about this, I'd love to hear it.

JMO

You'd be surprised how they find ways to communicate, they don't call them cons for nothing.:moo:

 

[dilbert]

Just goes to show how two people can have such varying opinions on the same thing, I walked that hill everyday too, and spent lunch hours standing at the corner by CASS( smokers corner lol) and I don't think you could tell at all if two people were talking coming up the hill unless they were turning to look at each other as they spoke.

I guess it depends on how good someone's eyesight is and how observant they are. (I went to CASS too )