trial thread: 3/27/2012

[Kamille]

Have you ever considered law school? This is a pretty brilliant defence.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:
:goodpost:

Except they didn't stop at Timmies on Woodlawn. LE checked all video surveillence around the HD.

He had a prearranged meeting with BA to pick up the percs. If he didn't show it would be suspicious. Plus it would have made a good alibi. If he did show and picked them up and ran out in a hurry when that wasn't his usual "style" that would look suspicious. Not introducing her to or bringing his friend in the car in to meet BA is suspicious to me. Parking on the street and getting out to meet BA halfway up the driveway and go straight into her house without any mention of the girl in the car is suspicious to me.

MR goes to an ATM machine and gives TLM money to make a purchase in HD. Was he lending her money for household supplies? Did he not ask her what she wanted the money for? He was out of money the next day so the $80 was spent somewhere. What else did he have to buy or pay for that day/night?

And of course, Hwy 6 north out of Guelph is the complete opposite direction from Woodstock as I mentioned.

MOO

 

[snoofer]

To me that doesn't mean anything. What if they're supporting him silently from behind the scenes in an effort to stay out of the media circus? Alternatively, what if they have been subpoenaed? If they are under a subpoena then they wouldn't be allowed to be present in the court room anyhow until after they have given their testimony. JMO.

I have to say IMO there would be quite a few parents that even if you bought the defense theory...STILL would be mortified and ashamed to admit that was your son who left a child in that condition, lied to LE, did so many drugs and dragged you into it. Nope can't say I would show up in court IMO. I would want to know what kind of idiot coward I gave birth to. IMO

 

[dilbert]

To me that doesn't mean anything. What if they're supporting him silently from behind the scenes in an effort to stay out of the media circus? Alternatively, what if they have been subpoenaed? If they are under a subpoena then they wouldn't be allowed to be present in the court room anyhow until after they have given their testimony. JMO.

They might actually have jobs and can't take the time off work to travel back and forth to the trial every day.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

(RSBM)

And yet he did have access to her house and belongings. He took her clothes from home for her court appearance and was seen on the street by the neighbours. Either Carol willingly let him in, or TLM persuaded her to. But even if she resisted, if he was determined to get his hands on that journal, he could easily have overpowered that frail, drug-addled woman. Would she have called LE? I seriously doubt it.


http://www.thestar.com/news/article...ddled-mcclintic-offered-to-take-fall-for-beau

I was the one who mentioned the journal and the mystery of why it was still there on May 19th. If he, in fact, as some have speculated, went back up north to collect his clothing and shoes and was so damned careful, why would he leave that very damning journal? Makes no sense to me. IMO, he didn't take it away because he didn't know about it.

JMO

Wouldn't her mother have picked out clothes for him to take to TLM? :waitasec:

 

[Juris_Prudence]

BBM

So yeah, the trunk was already opened, so does that show he might have known what she picked up? Why would he open the trunk if he didn't know what it was she was getting. She could have just kept the bag and thrown it in the back seat or put it at her feet.

I have a friend who is crazy about his car. He keeps his car impeccably clean at all times, and whenever he would go out shopping with me, if there were any purchases at all, it did not matter what it was, he'd pop the trunk and the bags / parcels would go in the trunk. He has been this way since he began driving and I suspect he always will be. The only time this rule would not apply is if the purchase was food / drink to be consumed whilst driving along, or unless the item was for the car (eg: new wires to connect the ipod to the stereo). To me, it does not mean anything that he popped the trunk and the purchase from HD went straight into the trunk. I personally cannot infer guilt or innocence from that given my own personal experience with my friend the car lover. :twocents:

 

[flipflop]

Very interesting to note that in the middle of a kidnapping he is totally relaxed, sits and chats with his old friend and then mosies on back to his car - like he didn't have a care in the world, no rush, no agenda to keep - just out and about around town ....

But, a couple of days later he is described as being a totally different, stressed out person ...

Why? Because when he was at BA's house on April 8 he had no idea that TLM had kidnapped TS or of the events that were to follow.

In the meantime, during those ten minutes that TLM waited for him in the car, she reviewed her situation. Perhaps she tried using MR's phone that he had left with her to call or text someone about the alleged drug debt, and not getting an answer, panicked, knowing that they could not bring TS back to Woodstock with them. TLM knows that she cannot allow TS to live, as she can identify TLM. She also knows that if she tells MR now that she has abducted the child and needs to kill her that he will not co-operate. Her twisted mind tells her that the child must die, and her body left where it will not be found for a good long time.

MR returns to the car and suggests a Timmies, to which TLM agrees. Stopping at Timmies on Woodlawn, TLM sees the Home Depot, and realizes that this is her chance to choose a murder weapon. She mentions to MR that she needs to pick up a couple of things and he waits for her in the car while she runs in, all the while unaware of what she is purchasing or what her plan is.

Since they now have the drugs they came to pick up in Guelph, there is no urgency and MR heads out of Guelph the back way. This is when TLM tells him that they need to pull over so TS can relieve herself .... so they turn into a laneway and MR walks over to a stand of trees ...

In my opinion MR was unaware of TLM's plan until it was too late. No wonder he would appear stressed and jittery a few days later.

JMO of course!

Good post ChaChaCha, the defence needs you on the team! I believe they are heading in this direction as well. I do not buy it though!!!!!!!

I still believe "some" of TLM's story. Both have told many lies which conflict each others storyline. I believe the pair came up with the idea together, who initiated it is beyond me, I think they fed off of each other and came up with the plan. They are both low life, cheating, lying, druggies if you ask me. There is no way that MR did not know that he was involved in a kidnapping the moment that TLM and VS got into his car, Im not buying it!!!! I also believe he went back and covered his tracks, picking up and disposing of items that would incriminate him. Why did he get rid of his back seat, why did he get rid of his blackberry, why did he lie to LE in the interview, what was he hiding?????

 

[Hello_Kitty]

(RSBM)

And yet he did have access to her house and belongings. He took her clothes from home for her court appearance and was seen on the street by the neighbours. Either Carol willingly let him in, or TLM persuaded her to. But even if she resisted, if he was determined to get his hands on that journal, he could easily have overpowered that frail, drug-addled woman. Would she have called LE? I seriously doubt it.


http://www.thestar.com/news/article...ddled-mcclintic-offered-to-take-fall-for-beau

I was the one who mentioned the journal and the mystery of why it was still there on May 19th. If he, in fact, as some have speculated, went back up north to collect his clothing and shoes and was so damned careful, why would he leave that very damning journal? Makes no sense to me. IMO, he didn't take it away because he didn't know about it.

JMO

Well AG, that's what I'm having problems with, if he as the defense suggests helped TLM clean up the crime scene, why would he bring her clothes, or continue to even associate with her? My gut reaction were I in his shoes would have been to completely ignore her. Get as far away from her as possible. I may even go to police and tell them what happened.

 

[antiquegirl]

Wouldn't her mother have picked out clothes for him to take to TLM? :waitasec:

Who knows? Depends on how sober she was at the time. If she did and was, why didn't she take them to TLM herself?

Carol protested her involvement after the arrests and screamed (literally!) that she knew nothing about anything. And later on, she wrote emails claiming that when this was over she would write her own account about what really happened. I suspect that if she found this journal she would have destroyed it herself. But I don't think TLM trusted her to tell her.

The question is why didn't TLM tell MTR to remove the book? I think she was already prepared to throw him under the bus and didn't care if she went with him.

JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

Well AG, that's what I'm having problems with, if he as the defense suggests helped TLM clean up the crime scene, why would he bring her clothes, or continue to even associate with her? My gut reaction were I in his shoes would have been to completely ignore her. Get as far away from her as possible. I may even go to police and tell them what happened.

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

JMO

 

[matou]

Did TLM write in her journal that MR was with her? JMO

 

[dilbert]

I wonder who the scary guy with the bloodshot eyes was? :waitasec:

 

[Kamille]

Who knows? Depends on how sober she was at the time. If she did and was, why didn't she take them to TLM herself?

Carol protested her involvement after the arrests and screamed (literally!) that she knew nothing about anything. And later on, she wrote emails claiming that when this was over she would write her own account about what really happened. I suspect that if she found this journal she would have destroyed it herself. But I don't think TLM trusted her to tell her.

The question is why didn't TLM tell MTR to remove the book? I think she was already prepared to throw him under the bus and didn't care if she went with him.

JMO

Well I think it's unfair to suggest that Carol was a non functioning human being all of the time and would not have been able to hand some clothes out the door to MR if TLM had asked her to. And we know that she had no transportation so how and why would she be the one to take them to TLM when MR was being so helpful to CM in those weeks?

How would MR even know that TLM had written down their discussions in a journal? I don't think he had a clue about that journal. If he did, you can bet he would have tried to figure out a way to get into her room. And get his clothes and shoes that he lent her as well. It's not like TLM could have or would have told him about the journal and to get rid of it during their likely recorded phone calls and visits.

MOO

 

[maxfactor]

Who knows? Depends on how sober she was at the time. If she did and was, why didn't she take them to TLM herself?

Carol protested her involvement after the arrests and screamed (literally!) that she knew nothing about anything. And later on, she wrote emails claiming that when this was over she would write her own account about what really happened. I suspect that if she found this journal she would have destroyed it herself. But I don't think TLM trusted her to tell her.

The question is why didn't TLM tell MTR to remove the book? I think she was already prepared to throw him under the bus and didn't care if she went with him.

JMO

I think it's very likely Carol wouldn't let him in TLM's room, that's why the shoes were still in the closet. I think he got his mom to go with him on the pretense they were giving her things they didn't need. I hope Carol is called to the stand so she can testify about his actions towards her after this happened.

 

[Kamille]

I wonder who the scary guy with the bloodshot eyes was? :waitasec:

Doubt we'll ever know because even if he exists, he likely has nothing to do with this case.

MOO

 

[Juris_Prudence]

(RSBM)

And yet he did have access to her house and belongings. He took her clothes from home for her court appearance and was seen on the street by the neighbours. Either Carol willingly let him in, or TLM persuaded her to. But even if she resisted, if he was determined to get his hands on that journal, he could easily have overpowered that frail, drug-addled woman. Would she have called LE? I seriously doubt it.


http://www.thestar.com/news/article...ddled-mcclintic-offered-to-take-fall-for-beau

I was the one who mentioned the journal and the mystery of why it was still there on May 19th. If he, in fact, as some have speculated, went back up north to collect his clothing and shoes and was so damned careful, why would he leave that very damning journal? Makes no sense to me. IMO, he didn't take it away because he didn't know about it.

JMO

I wanted to propose an alternative possibility:
Maybe CM packed a bag of TLM's things and MR picked that up and brought it to TLM. Maybe he didn't have access to her things beyond what CM might have packed for him to deliver to her in detention.

 

[flipflop]

I wonder who the scary guy with the bloodshot eyes was? :waitasec:

I have been thinking of that as well Dilbert, I've been wondering if he was someone undercover!!!!

 

[~n/t~]

So MR drives a stranger's child 2 hours from home and the jury is supposed to believe he didn't know where he was going? And this child's body is dumped in an isolated wooded area in Mt. Forest but he had nothing to do with her murder? He just happened to be there. He turns around and that was the end of Tori Stafford? Murdered by a mad woman so he helps her dispose of the body and cover up the crime?

I'll give the jury a lot more faith they will use common sense when analyzing the facts in this case because thus far the defense lacks in that department. IMO.

 

[dilbert]

I have been thinking of that as well Dilbert, I've been wondering if he was someone undercover!!!!

oooh! I never thought of that, could be...

 

[nettie_82]

Originally Posted by Hello_Kitty
Do we know that MTR gave/lent her money to pick up her things, or did TLM have money of her own... Hmmm, since she didn't have money to put money into her phone, then she didn't have money to buy the hammer and bags, so MTR must've given her the money.

RaffertyLFP: McClinitic said she bought the garbage bags and claw hammer with cash at self-checkout. Rafferty got cash from ATM at gas station [via Twitter]

 

[dilbert]

RaffertyLFP: McClinitic said she bought the garbage bags and claw hammer with cash at self-checkout. Rafferty got cash from ATM at gas station [via Twitter]

Notice the Crown did not show ATM bank records from TLM for that day? Maybe the defence will.

MOO