trial thread: 3/27/2012

[swedie]

Thinking back to him trolling the school that morning and "good things are comming my way"I wonder if he originally planned to take a child alone and then decided later to take TLM with him. Possible, I think it's possible that he had already tried to lure children into his car. But that's just my opinion.

Hmmm great point Max! Trolling hoping to find a child late for school that morning? Then he realized he couldn't carry it off on his own? Maybe he was planning on going to Guelph to abduct a child? Somewhere were he didn't live and couldn't be identified as easily. MOO

 

[Juris_Prudence]

Good post ChaChaCha, the defence needs you on the team! I believe they are heading in this direction as well. I do not buy it though!!!!!!!

I still believe "some" of TLM's story. Both have told many lies which conflict each others storyline. I believe the pair came up with the idea together, who initiated it is beyond me, I think they fed off of each other and came up with the plan. They are both low life, cheating, lying, druggies if you ask me. There is no way that MR did not know that he was involved in a kidnapping the moment that TLM and VS got into his car, Im not buying it!!!! I also believe he went back and covered his tracks, picking up and disposing of items that would incriminate him. Why did he get rid of his back seat, why did he get rid of his blackberry, why did he lie to LE in the interview, what was he hiding?????

As I read your post, I was thinking that if police had just questioned me, and I knew I was into buying drugs and I had some shady contacts I too might be interested in getting rid of my blackberry pretty quickly! Even if I had nothing to do with anything regarding Tori's case, if the police had just questioned me, I'd be creeped out and thinking they must have gotten my name from a drug connection or something! I'd be afraid that they'd be coming back for me just based on drug dealings, and I'd have incentive to ditch that phone pretty quickly for that alone! I'm not saying that this is what happened in MR's case, just trying to come up with a possible alternative theory as to why he wanted to get rid of his blackberry. :twocents:

I don't know if he lied during the audio tape interview with police or not, but I do think he might have been high on something at the time, and that might have been what he was trying to hide from them. That and connections to dealers might explain his unwillingness / reluctance to provide last names and other contact info during that interview. :twocents:

As for the backseat, well thats a mystery still. I'd like to know at what point police figure he removed it. Of course we know why they think he ditched it, but I'm wondering when they figure this was done? I wonder if there will be any witnesses testifying to this matter? Maybe someone knows when it was removed and will explain it. I wonder too if anyone heard him talking about wanting a new car, or to sell or get rid of this car before Tori went missing? I did hear in the interview he told police it needed a paint job, but it was on its way. Just interesting when considering that he got rid of the seat, and when considering that the Crown has stated he was contacting wreckers prior to his arrest. :twocents:
:truce:

 

[Juris_Prudence]

I wonder who the scary guy with the bloodshot eyes was? :waitasec:

I wondered this too and was wondering if LE went out and looked for him and if they found him did they question him? Of course, I also then wondered if maybe Dirk decided to go hunt this person down and find out what was up with the encounter between him and MR (if he did look for and find him). If he was found, do you think he'd have any testimony to contribute? :twocents:

 

[flipflop]

As I read your post, I was thinking that if police had just questioned me, and I knew I was into buying drugs and I had some shady contacts I too might be interested in getting rid of my blackberry pretty quickly! Even if I had nothing to do with anything regarding Tori's case, if the police had just questioned me, I'd be creeped out and thinking they must have gotten my name from a drug connection or something! I'd be afraid that they'd be coming back for me just based on drug dealings, and I'd have incentive to ditch that phone pretty quickly for that alone! I'm not saying that this is what happened in MR's case, just trying to come up with a possible alternative theory as to why he wanted to get rid of his blackberry. :twocents:

I don't know if he lied during the audio tape interview with police or not, but I do think he might have been high on something at the time, and that might have been what he was trying to hide from them. That and connections to dealers might explain his unwillingness / reluctance to provide last names and other contact info during that interview. :twocents:

As for the backseat, well thats a mystery still. I'd like to know at what point police figure he removed it. Of course we know why they think he ditched it, but I'm wondering when they figure this was done? I wonder if there will be any witnesses testifying to this matter? Maybe someone knows when it was removed and will explain it. I wonder too if anyone heard him talking about wanting a new car, or to sell or get rid of this car before Tori went missing? I did hear in the interview he told police it needed a paint job, but it was on its way. Just interesting when considering that he got rid of the seat, and when considering that the Crown has stated he was contacting wreckers prior to his arrest. :twocents:
:truce:

BBM, really? His first main lie was when LE asked him if he heard or knew anything of the missing girl, he said "ya I heard the helicopters" even though he knew she was dead and buried under a rock pile in MF. He lied about where he was on April 8th.....I could go on and on....

RE; his blackberry: I don't think he was too worried about the drug buying when he has a murder on his hands.

 

[antiquegirl]

Well I think it's unfair to suggest that Carol was a non functioning human being all of the time and would not have been able to hand some clothes out the door to MR if TLM had asked her to. And we know that she had no transportation so how and why would she be the one to take them to TLM when MR was being so helpful to CM in those weeks?

How would MR even know that TLM had written down their discussions in a journal? I don't think he had a clue about that journal. If he did, you can bet he would have tried to figure out a way to get into her room. And get his clothes and shoes that he lent her as well. It's not like TLM could have or would have told him about the journal and to get rid of it during their likely recorded phone calls and visits.

MOO

(BBM)

That was exactly my point. TLM claimed that he helped her compose the alibi/cover story. I'm suggesting that it was all her doing and he knew nothing about it.

And I think if she really wanted to get rid of that journal, there would have been a way to ask him to get it without incriminating either of them. She could have just mentioned a notebook with a love letter in it to him and told him to go read it. This was even true. Once he saw the entry with the alibi and his own name in it, he'd have known to destroy it.

JMO

 

[snoofer]

I wondered this too and was wondering if LE went out and looked for him and if they found him did they question him? Of course, I also then wondered if maybe Dirk decided to go hunt this person down and find out what was up with the encounter between him and MR (if he did look for and find him). If he was found, do you think he'd have any testimony to contribute? :twocents:

IMO I was thinking about that too who could this person be...but I remember on the tape LE asked if he knew JG..TM boyfriend and he said no..was wondering if JG recounted to them this encounter but like everyone else MTR would say didnt know them or their name etc....but just in case someone suggested he DID know him he could say well I did meet some creepy guy who yelled at me .....I notice that he describes everyone in a derrogatory way ie scarey, or messed up, or has alot of problems, or is into drugs yadda yadda yadda. But he describes himself as so much above that...yet he is a 28 year old with nothing going for him IMO.

 

[swedie]

(RSBM)

And yet he did have access to her house and belongings. He took her clothes from home for her court appearance and was seen on the street by the neighbours. Either Carol willingly let him in, or TLM persuaded her to. But even if she resisted, if he was determined to get his hands on that journal, he could easily have overpowered that frail, drug-addled woman. Would she have called LE? I seriously doubt it.


http://www.thestar.com/news/article...ddled-mcclintic-offered-to-take-fall-for-beau

I was the one who mentioned the journal and the mystery of why it was still there on May 19th. If he, in fact, as some have speculated, went back up north to collect his clothing and shoes and was so damned careful, why would he leave that very damning journal? Makes no sense to me. IMO, he didn't take it away because he didn't know about it.

JMO

IMO I would think CM would have given MR TLM's clothing, not allowed him to go snooping through their house and help himself to whatever he wanted, especially if TLM had a stash of drugs in her room, CM would want to keep those for herself. That frail, drug-addled woman had no problem calling LE on her own daughter when she was overpowered, why would she allow some guy she didn't like to overpower her around? I highly doubt MR would try and overpower her and draw attention to himself from LE, especially when TLM was already in custody, and was this frail, drug-addled woman's daughter. HtH and :moo:

 

[Juris_Prudence]

BBM, really? His first main lie was when LE asked him if he heard or knew anything of the missing girl, he said "ya I heard the helicopters" even though he knew she was dead and buried under a rock pile in MF.

Good point. So far the defense has suggested that he helped clean up and cover up her murder. If that is true, then the defense thus far would certainly suggest that he lied in that interview! :twocents:

Someone please pass me a coffee or something! Its been a long day and I'm tired and perhaps not thinking very clearly! :blushing:

 

[antiquegirl]

Did TLM write in her journal that MR was with her? JMO

Didn't you post a transcript of that alibi here? It would be helpful to bring that forward. But the very first line in that entry reads, "Scenario 1 - Mike not spotted". I'd think that was pretty incriminating right there and I don't even remember what "Scenario 2" might be, or if we ever saw it.

JMO

 

[Ardy]

If MTR is guilty of the crimes for which he has been charged, I hope the Crown has more convincing evidence than what was presented today.

If anything, the testimony of BA, describing the demeanor or MTR, supported the defense theory more than the Crown's. I think the Crown lost some ground on credibility today.

The defense has hardly asked any questions of Crown witnesses.........probably because they haven't felt the need to, because the testimony really isn't hurting their alternate theory.

I think the Crown is going to need an "oh" type of moment with evidence, or a steady stream of small moments over time that add up in the end, or they are in danger of watching this case be lost by the lack of credibility in TLM as an eyewitness.
JMO

 

[Confusedashell]

I am new here so hello to all.
I have been reading all the forms but have not been able to reply. Here are my thoughts.
So today why didn't either the crown or the defense ask if BA saw anything weird about the car or if there was anyone else in the back of the car?

Does anyone think MR will take the stand and if so when? Since Thursday there is a scheduling mix up does anyone know if the jury will go out to the crime scene??

 

[Kamille]

(BBM)

That was exactly my point. TLM claimed that he helped her compose the alibi/cover story. I'm suggesting that it was all her doing and he knew nothing about it.

And I think if she really wanted to get rid of that journal, there would have been a way to ask him to get it without incriminating either of them. She could have just mentioned a notebook with a love letter in it to him and told him to go read it. This was even true. Once he saw the entry with the alibi and his own name in it, he'd have known to destroy it.

JMO

TLM claimed that they discussed different scenarios on the one night they got together before she was picked up for the probation violation. TLM writes everything down in a journal that's going through her head apparently. Something MR was obviously unaware of or he'd have known all the other stuff she'd written and would have run for the hills. I'm sure this was all written down after she got home from that talk with MR. I don't think she ever indicated that they sat there together writing up scenarios.

And TLM had no intention of confessing until May 19th when she finally did. Heck she even passed the lie detector. Not sure exactly what prompted her to confess but why would she have wanted to alert MR to her personal journal when she had no plans of telling anything?

There was probably a lot of other private and personal stuff in there other than what was brought out in court that would not be considered evidence.

MOO

 

[swedie]

Except they didn't stop at Timmies on Woodlawn. LE checked all video surveillence around the HD.

He had a prearranged meeting with BA to pick up the percs. If he didn't show it would be suspicious. Plus it would have made a good alibi. If he did show and picked them up and ran out in a hurry when that wasn't his usual "style" that would look suspicious. Not introducing her to or bringing his friend in the car in to meet BA is suspicious to me. Parking on the street and getting out to meet BA halfway up the driveway and go straight into her house without any mention of the girl in the car is suspicious to me.

MR goes to an ATM machine and gives TLM money to make a purchase in HD. Was he lending her money for household supplies? Did he not ask her what she wanted the money for? He was out of money the next day so the $80 was spent somewhere. What else did he have to buy or pay for that day/night?

And of course, Hwy 6 north out of Guelph is the complete opposite direction from Woodstock as I mentioned.

MOO

MR must have had some money left over after they buried Tori under the rocks. He asked TLM is she wanted to go get something to eat. :sick:Unless he was expecting TLM to pay for his food as he paid for the garbage bags and hammer. :moo: Actually I think he invited her along on this adventure so rightfully he should be footing the bill...no? :waitasec:

When he asked if she wanted something to eat after the killing of Tori, "I scoffed," she testified.

When Crown attorney Kevin Gowdey asked her how Tori seemed in the back of the car on the drive from Woodstock, McClintic frowned and her chin trembled.

"It was ... how is a little girl supposed to seem in that situation?" she asked, incredulity rising in her voice.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/14/killer-describes-how-toris-murder-was-covered-up

 

[snoofer]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/good-news/ontario-brothers-rescue-quebec-couple-resort-155223943.html

...drawing a parallel...and 28 year old MTR's defence is what?????????? IMO

Please tell me that dynamic duo did NOT go out to eat after the deed.............

 

[dilbert]

I am new here so hello to all.
I have been reading all the forms but have not been able to reply. Here are my thoughts.
So today why didn't either the crown or the defense ask if BA saw anything weird about the car or if there was anyone else in the back of the car?

Does anyone think MR will take the stand and if so when? Since Thursday there is a scheduling mix up does anyone know if the jury will go out to the crime scene??

LOL, love your name!

:welcome:

 

[matou]

When she got Tori in the car, Rafferty told McClintic the girl "wasn't young enough," McClintic testified when asked followup questions to her testimony.
While they were on the highway, heading to Guelph, Tori asked if she could return home.
"She just kept asking where we were going, what was happening," McClintic said. "She asked if she could go home. She said she wouldn’t tell anybody.
"She said she’d just tell her mom she went to her cousin’s house to play."

So sad that NEITHER TLM or MR would listen to poor Tori. What's MR's defense for that? He didn't hear her because he was too busy listening for police bulletins for a missing little girl on the radio? JMO

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/14/tori-stafford-trial-day-six.html

 

[dilbert]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/good-news/ontario-brothers-rescue-quebec-couple-resort-155223943.html

...drawing a parallel...and 28 year old MTR's defence is what?????????? IMO

Please tell me that dynamic duo did NOT go out to eat after the deed.............

IMO, this doesn't even compare, although, I'm sure TLM would have watched them drown.

MOO

 

[Confusedashell]

Has anyone heard anything about MR's son??

 

[snoofer]

IMO, this doesn't even compare, although, I'm sure TLM would have watched them drown.

MOO

The parallel I am trying to draw is that if you were to buy defence suggestions, it would still be hard to believe that a 28 year old man would not have tried to do something heroic instead of going along with hiding a body, lying to LE etc etc. It flies in the face of what mothers would expect of their sons in a tough spot. It sickens me. Hero or zero IMO because there was definately no in between. ZERO! IMO BIG FAT ZERO!

 

[Confusedashell]

Does anyone know if any of them have ties to the Mount Forest area?? why would they chose mount forest