trial thread: 3/30/2012

[Oldsoul2]

New details here (I think). It was Smyth who re-interviewed TLM in January 2012.

Was she told that she would have to testify anyway before she claimed she was the one who struck the final blows or did she blurt it out and than was told it wouldn't matter either way? Again, she passed the lie detector test when she said it was him.

 

[Kamille]

What if she took time just before, or just after she murdered Tori to take in her surroundings? Whether or not she can / did describe the area perfectly does not convince me that MR is guilty of sexual assault. It does however convince me that TLM told at least a partial truth: that she took in her surroundings. :moo:

It's too bad that the coward on trial at the moment didn't tell LE what he saw during his "walk" when he was first arrested. Or any other time before or after that.

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

Aside from trying to find Tori's body quickly, I have to assume that their haste was also due to worry that at any moment TLM could decide to lawyer up.

JMO

First and foremost, imo was to find her with or without help from the killer. Of course, her confession and subsequent offer to help is always a relief but also very risky. Do they believe a killer? Is she telling the truth? Is she leading them on a wild goose chase? These are all questions that I'm sure they were asking themselves, imo.

And yes, finally there is that risk that a self confessed killer decides it no longer suits their need and withdraws the confession and says they were treated badly by the cops and they forced a confession.

I'm so glad Det Smyth found her. Some may call it luck that he decided to go there that day, others like me think Tori called him there.

 

[crazyladi]

Is it possible thats why she changed her story then? Maybe she thought that she didnt have to testify and got scared that she wasnt telling the truth and so she recanted and said she did it? Why say you did it, then you didnt do he did it, then you both did it to I did it? There is a reason why she keeps changing this and I wish I knew what it really was. Is she trying to protect him thinking they could have this amazing relationship while she is in jail and he isnt? Is she that weak when it comes to MR? I see it and I dont see it. She has like a split personality in my opinion.

 

[matou]

Aside from trying to find Tori's body quickly, I have to assume that their haste was also due to worry that at any moment TLM could decide to lawyer up.

JMO

She already had counsel at that time. From the agreed statement of facts:

On May 15th....she provided her written consent to that statement. She did so in the presence of counsel acting for her in the matters.

On page 3

http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/agreed-statement-fact-mcclintic-stafford.pdf

 

[swedie]

One time she says he did it, then she says she doesn't want him to go to jail for something he didn't do, and then she says he is a monster and should go to jail.........wow.......all I can say is forget all of her testimony except those parts which are proven to be true by corroborating evidence.

That is why what she could see from which vantage point is so important.

To see if it supports her testimony.

The defense is not denying MR was not present. I am sure the Crown will have evidence to show MR sexually assaulted Tori. If they don't so be it. The jury has the right to use TLM's testimony as evidence and if they BELIEVE TLM's testimony, she claims this was all MR's plan, he was the mastermind, the "engine", then that is their prerogative. It's called a reasonable doubt.:moo:

I believe TLM has made up her mind to tell the truth now as she wants the jurors to believe her story, as it is the closest they will ever come to finding out the truth, the whole truth. She has nothing to gain now by lying. We know we will never know the truth from MR as he plead not guilty and has left it up to the defense team to concoct some story to fit with the evidence. JMHO I don't think we are going to see MR take the stand, as too much evidence against him. :moo:

 

[Oldsoul2]

One time she says he did it, then she says she doesn't want him to go to jail for something he didn't do, and then she says he is a monster and should go to jail.........wow.......all I can say is forget all of her testimony except those parts which are proven to be true by corroborating evidence.

That is why what she could see from which vantage point is so important.

To see if it supports her testimony.

Always remember motivation. He did it when she was under the gun to tell the truth, she was told she was going to have to take a lie detector test. That was that for awhile until she than denied it was him and SAID IT WAS HER BECAUSE she didn't want to have to testify. She gave them the driving information to find Tori, all the landmarks, all the roads travelled etc.....it would make no difference in the beginning for her to lie IMO. Also she told him she would take the heat from the get go but when under the gun, she figured they would find out about him and panicked and just figured it's all coming out anyway so heres what happened. IMO she told the truth in her first statement

 

[Sailor Bug]

It's expected the 12-person jury will soon visit the rural lane way where lil Tori's body was located.

I think this is a very wise desicion on the Crowns part

 

[swedie]

Aside from trying to find Tori's body quickly, I have to assume that their haste was also due to worry that at any moment TLM could decide to lawyer up.

JMO

No she was already offer up a lawyer and didn't want one. That information is way back in MSM. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[giantalkinghead]

You know TLM's mind and thought processes are undoubtly a very difficult thing to discern, even for a top notch therapist, but I really wish the Crown would have drawn more out of her during questioning as to why she may have thought that if she fessed up to being the person who wielded the hammer that MR would not have gone to prison "for something he didn't do". And that she would not have had to testify at his trial.

Was she under the impression that if she told the truth about who actually killed Victoria that he would in turn confess to his part in the abduction and sexual assault, since she had taken the accusation of him actually murdering Victoria out of the equation, and that there wouldn't have to be a trial at all for her to testify at? He wouldn't have to go to prison for something he didn't do, just for the things that he did do. If that is the case then she sure read MR all wrong.

MOO

IMO the only reason she has claimed that she committed the murder is because she wants to get herself declared a Dangerous Offender so that she will never get out of jail. She never had much of a life. She spent most of her young life in Juvenile detention. She was living on food stamps and welfare. She is accustomed to her life in prison and has no problem with staying there for the rest of her life. As a dangerous offender she gets three square meals a day and has to make her bed... the rest is on the tax payers dime. Her assault against the other inmate in January ( I think it was ) also would help in the Dangerous status. She would presumably be held in Solitary confinement with "status" so to speak amongst the other inmates.... but this is MOO

 

[swedie]

Thanks for the updates everyone! My thoughts and prayers are with Rodney and Tara. Are they there today? I didn't see a tweet. Having to listen to this testimony and the graphic details of finding Tori's body in a bag thrown out like trash must be unbearable. Even the detectives after 3 years get choked up like many of us here.

Wonder if the sexual assault testimony will come out this afternoon.

:tears:

Sounds like Tori's family was present in the courtroom but one tweeter said Tara left the courtroom when Judge Heeney warned of graphic materials to come. Poor Tara. :'( I don't blame her for leaving.

 

[Sailor Bug]

Linda Nguyen ‏ @LindaNguyenPN
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FavoritedFavorite · Close Open Details I will not be tweeting the afternoon of the #Rafferty trial #ToriStafford

 

[daisy.faithfull]

IMO the only reason she has claimed that she committed the murder is because she wants to get herself declared a Dangerous Offender so that she will never get out of jail. She never had much of a life. She spent most of her young life in Juvenile detention. She was living on food stamps and welfare. She is accustomed to her life in prison and has no problem with staying there for the rest of her life. As a dangerous offender she gets three square meals a day and has to make her bed... the rest is on the tax payers dime. Her assault against the other inmate in January ( I think it was ) also would help in the Dangerous status. She would presumably be held in Solitary confinement with "status" so to speak amongst the other inmates.... but this is MOO

I can't imagine what it is like for people who work in that system to see young people like TLM with that mentality and know what they are capable of. That TLM did what she did probably wasn't that big of a surprise to people like that and they see others like TLM everyday.

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Trial resumes Jury still out

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Linda Nguyen ‏ @LindaNguyenPN
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FavoritedFavorite · Close Open Details I will not be tweeting the afternoon of the #Rafferty trial #ToriStafford

I hope she's okay.

 

[antiquegirl]

She already had counsel at that time. From the agreed statement of facts:

On May 15th....she provided her written consent to that statement. She did so in the presence of counsel acting for her in the matters.

On page 3

http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/agreed-statement-fact-mcclintic-stafford.pdf

Yes, that was on May 15th. Her counsel was present only when she gave her consent to provide a further statement (on May 19).

asked her whether or not she would consent to providing a further statement to police. She provided her written consent to that statement. She did so in the presence of counsel acting for her in the matters.

The further statements took place on May 19th. From Pages 3 and 4:

On May 19, 2009, investigators obtained an Order from the Superior Court of Justice to remove Terri-Lynne McClintic from the Detention Centre for the purpose of providing a further statement in relation to the abduction of Tori Stafford. She was taken to OCPS headquarters. After being given her Rights to Counsel and cautioned, she declined the opportunity to speak with a lawyer and indicated that she was voluntarily participating in the interview.

On May 19, 2009, Terri-Lynne McClintic admitted that she was the female person walking in the CASS video with Tori Stafford. After a further short series of questions, she was advised at 4:47 p.m. that she was under arrest for the offence of abduction of a child under 14. Another short series of questions were asked and at 5:15 p.m. she was arrested for the offence of accessory to murder. On both occasions she was given her rights to counsel and cautioned. On both occasions she declined the opportunity to speak to a lawyer and reaffirmed her willingness to co-operate with the police.

Her lawyer was not present on May 19th. There was nothing to prevent her from changing her mind, clamming up, and refusing to speak without a lawyer present.

JMO

 

[matou]

Yes, that was on May 15th. Her counsel was present only when she gave her consent to provide a further statement (on May 19).



The further statements took place on May 19th. From Pages 3 and 4:


Her lawyer was not present on May 19th. There was nothing to prevent her from changing her mind, clamming up, and refusing to speak without a lawyer present.

JMO

To me the term "lawyering up" means the person doesn`t have a lawyer in the first place and is in the process of getting one. JMO

 

[Ardy]

TLM reminds me of the term.......demonic possession.

Many people would laugh at the concept, but my educational studies and the personal experiences of people I know to be truthful and beyond reproach, have convinced me not to be as cavalier about it and some.

If there is some truth to that...there is no rhyme or reason for what she does. She wouldn't even be able to explain it.

In any event, the jury will have it's hands full, just sorting through the physical evidence, and if they get mired down trying to sort out all the different "theories" that members of the jury could have, regarding the reasons for why TLM would be truthful in this instance and not truthful in that instance.........it would make their work that much more difficult.

I am thinking that after discussion, and under the leadership of the foreman, they may decide to abandon any of TLM's testimony that isn't supported by other evidence......just because it is the only way they could proceed forward.

I believe that every little scrap of evidence has become significantly more important, than it might have been if TLM could be considered a truthful and reliable witness.

 

[Sailor Bug]

last tweet prior to lunch

Crown again warns of disturbing imagery to come.

Trial resumes Jury still out

The court is dealing with legal issues - the jury is still out

 

[Ardy]

I am not sure how TLM would have been compelled to testify if she refused.

They could certainly drag her into court, but they couldn't force her to talk.

She is serving life in prison............so what could they do to her?