Trial Thread 4/11/2012

[Jezbel]

I didn't get quite the same conclusions as you did Oldsoul2.

I understood that there was one blood spot on the door moulding that tested positive for Victoria's DNA. That spot was also tested for sperm and there was a second individuals DNA indicated but it was too miniscule to get an actual DNA profile. So on a sperm test on that drop of blood, it was positive but they couldn't get an actual profile. I believe they could only get 1 marker? And that same blood spot was repeated in a smaller amount on the frame of the vehicle which would have been transfer from the original blood spot when the door was closed.

I also understood that there were 3 other blood stains on the front passenger seat. One on the seat itself and two on the back of the seat. The one on the front of the seat tested positive for MR and TLM's DNA. The two on the back of the seat were a mixture but Victoria was ruled out. So she was ruled out of all three blood stains on the front passenger seat.

So basically all I got out of all that is there was one blood spot on the door moulding of the car, transferred to the frame when the door was closed. And in that blood spot was Victoria's DNA and the possiblility of sperm or some other DNA (still not clear on that) but not in a high enough density to test for a positive DNA match to anyone.

So there is very little forensic DNA of a sexual assault on Victoria in the car. Not surprising if the sexual assault took place in the manner in which TLM described it. Victoria's blood and DNA would only likely have been found on MR and on the lower seat portion of his back seat if it happened in the way in which she described with Victoria in MR's lap. And since he was not wearing clothing from the waist down either and supposedly threw his shirt away along with TLM's coat and the bench portion of the seat, where exactly would they be able to find that evidence now?

Amazing how that worked out isn't it? Just another example of the forensics matching up to what TLM said. And there was no blood splatter at all from Victoria in the car so the attack with the hammer must have happened outside the vehicle. Another co-incidence?

TLM's story has not produced one hole yet that I'm aware of.

MOO

That's how I understood it to be too. They didn't that I recall mention the testing of semen in that first blood spot only the second DNA profile which wasn't enough to make a match. I could be wrong but that's kind of what it sounded like during her testimony this morning.

JMO

 

[snoofer]

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/11/19618341.html

Still questions but this is a simplistic summary of today.IMO

 

[jilly]

IMO nope. That fact that the preliminary hearing was done away with, would not give the defense any indication of what the Crown was going to ask the witness. The defense would only be privy to a witness list. And Salem found in the one tweet, this friend of MR's who testified today said the inside was clean. I took that to mean that only the dash was whitewashed, not the rest of the interior. She also claimed the back seat was still in the car in late March 2009. :moo: HTH.

While Crawley could not comment specifically on Rafferty's case, he said direct indictments are used when Crown counsel has concluded there is a “reasonable prospect of conviction.”

Preliminary hearings are held to see if there is enough evidence to go to trial.

Rafferty's lawyer, Dirk Derstine, said he is disappointed with the decision.

“I think that the preliminary inquiry is an excellent place for starting the process of determining whether a case is proper or truthful or not,” Derstine said.

“We're not particularly happy it's being taken away from us.”

The ministry's reasons, including saving time, don't justify the “extraordinary step,” Derstine said.

“It won't have sped up the trial probably by one day.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...in-tori-stafford-death-goes-straight-to-trial

Preliminary hearings are the norm in Canada and allow a judge to decide if there is enough evidence to go to trial.

"I think a preliminary hearing is useful for ferreting out the truth," Derstine said.

The hearings also give defence lawyers a chance to assess the Crown's case and lay the groundwork for a counter attack, Syd Usprich, a University of Western Ontario law professor, said.

"It is a useful tool for the defence," he said. "It gives the defence a preliminary bite of the apple."

Defence lawyers can compare witnesses' testimony in the preliminary hearing and trial to expose holes and contradictions, Usprich noted.

Direct indictments "are not used very often," he said.

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2605223

There's a lot more to the criteria for getting a direct indictment than just saving time. The controlling factor would be if it's in the public interest. Here we had a little girl abducted, raped and murdered. The community was understandably hostile.

A direct indictment is not an ambush imo. As I understand it, a Statement of Disclosure is given to the Defence before trial.

http://www.justice.gov.nl.ca/just/prosect/guidebook/019.pdf

 

[ChaChaCha]

A prelim is used to see if there is enough Evidence to proceed to trial and has absolutely nothing to do with disclosure. Disclosure would have been provided well before the prelim was expected to take place. The defence would do their own research on the list of witnesses the Crown provided and would have a very good indication of why the Crown was calling that witness and have a good handle on the types of questions that would be asked.

I am 100% per nobodyzgirl on this one. For example, in the case of the woman who testified today, a copy of the "willsay" together with either transcripts, LE notes, tapes, videotapes etc. of her previous statements are provided to the defence, who may ask for contact particulars for the purposes of conducting their own interview prior to trial. Understandably, some people will be reluctant to help a defence lawyer - in which case the Crown will assist the defence by facilitating a meeting between them for that purpose.

I would imagine that the defence also took that opportunity to discuss with the witness what other comments she may have regarding their client, just so they are being thorough and not blindsided.

We must keep in mind that at the time it was decided to go to trial without the benefit of a prelim TLM was still saying that MR was the murderer and not herself. How interesting and different this case would have been had the prelim been conducted ... would TLM have testified the same as she did a few weeks ago? IMO she threw a wrench in the works by waiting until late January of this year to admit that she is the one that murdered TS.

jmo

 

[swedie]

I'm confused (but what else is new?) How could TLM have semen? Or is this just grammatically incorrect?

Maybe it SHOULD have read: "Scientists also found traces of semen, and blood likely belonging to TLM in some areas of the car"?

Obviously the only one to release semen would be MR. The blood belonged to TLM. Maybe TLM was a virgin before she met MR? That or he must have been pretty demented and rough during his sexual acts with TLM. Ouch! The rough sex theory would back up what ex girlfriends said in MSM about MR. Also showing he was a sexual deviant. Way back I suggested the possibility MR may have raped TLM on that first outing. :waitasec: Stands to reason why she never called him after he left her with his phone number on the pizza box. Nothing would surprise me now. A lot of evidence which doesn't make MR look like a nice guy that's for sure. HTH and :moo:

 

[ChaChaCha]

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/11/19618341.html

Still questions but this is a simplistic summary of today.IMO

Thanks Snoofer ....

With regards to this part of the article:

The murder trial of Michael Rafferty heard from a forensic expert Wednesday who found DNA samples in his car that linked him with Tori Stafford.

The most striking piece of evidence was a gym bag found in the back seat with a tiny speck of blood on a seam.

Jennifer McLean, an expert from the Centre of Forensic Sciences, said the tests showed with a very high probability that the blood speck contained DNA from both Rafferty and Stafford.

Can someone please explain to me whether the underlined sentence means that the DNA was composed of TS blood and MR blood... I thought that DNA could be gleaned from several different sources - is it possible that the "mixture" was a combination of TS blood and MR saliva or shedded skin cells? Will the expert be able to determine what the source of the DNA for MR was? Is it possible that the tiny speck was part of transfer of TS blood from MR's hands to his gym bag?

I wish that the findings had been interpreted ... maybe we will hear more tomorrow.

JMO


Lol .... answered my own question!

DNA can be extracted from virtually any part of human body. The most common source of DNA is blood or soft tissue samples. DNA can be also extracted from semen, saliva, hair roots and even from several skin cells left on the surface of a pint glass after it was touched (these sources of DNA are commonly employed in forensic analysis).
http://www.medicalgenomics.co.uk/DNAsources.html


Conclusion: We should not be interpreting the expert's testimony today about the presence of DNA as being blood evidence (i.e. not MR and TLM in the front seat - it was not blood DNA that was tested .... other sources of DNA left in the car during um activity) unless the expert specifies that the sample tested was blood.

 

[swedie]

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court
There's a mixture of DNA in the blood spot. Tori's was the "major" female contribution. There was also a minor contribution.

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court
One nanogram (billionth of a smartie) of DNA is the maximum cutoff. A quarter of that is the minimum.


AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court
Blood spot was also tested for sperm cells The amount of cells tested was below the routine level, so results are subject to higher scrutiny

So this means that MR's sperm and Tori's blood was found in that drop, but not enough that it could be argued away by the defense. :moo:

 

[swedie]

A prelim is used to see if there is enough Evidence to proceed to trial and has absolutely nothing to do with disclosure. Disclosure would have been provided well before the prelim was expected to take place. The defence would do their own research on the list of witnesses the Crown provided and would have a very good indication of why the Crown was calling that witness and have a good handle on the types of questions that would be asked.

Respectfully I do not agree with your guess. The defense is not privy to questions the Crown will ask the witnesses. They can try and theorized, but that's about it. HTH and :moo:

"I am disappointed. I don't want to see my client being railroaded for the sake of expediency."

"I think a preliminary hearing is useful for ferreting out the truth," Derstine said.

The hearings also give defence lawyers a chance to assess the Crown's case and lay the groundwork for a counter attack, Syd Usprich, a University of Western Ontario law professor, said.

"It is a useful tool for the defence," he said. "It gives the defence a preliminary bite of the apple."

Defence lawyers can compare witnesses' testimony in the preliminary hearing and trial to expose holes and contradictions, Usprich noted.

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2605223

 

[Hello_Kitty]

So this means that MR's sperm and Tori's blood was found in that drop, but not enough that it could be argued away by the defense. :moo:

Well not enough that a DNA profile could be built.

 

[swedie]

I for one would love to know what was going on in his big head which made him so disgusting. Was MR tearing up because a light just came on and he realized he may never get to have sex with another pretty female again? Maybe he was relieve she wasn't asked more about his sexual appetite. Then again she may not have went there with MR. MOO

Interestingly, Drayton is in Wellington County, as was much of the long search for Tori, as were her remains when finally discovered by that rock pile off a lane in the countryside just south of Mount Forest.

But from the moment Ms. Lane walked into the courtroom until the moment she left, Mr. Rafferty’s eyes followed her.

She is a pretty 30-year-old with long dark hair who first met the meaty fellow in the prisoner’s box when they were both in Grade 6 in Drayton, a village of about 1,800 northwest of Guelph, Ont.

As for Ms. Lane, she said the relationship with Mr. Rafferty, who is now 31, ended on April 1, a week before Tori disappeared. She wasn’t asked why.

As she left the courtroom, Mr. Rafferty watched her closely and their eyes met just before she walked out the door.

He then bent over at the waist, and when [B]he lifted his big head, his eyes were watery and he looked verklempt: Stolid no more[/B].

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...ally-shows-emotion-at-sight-of-ex-girlfriend/

 

[matou]

Christie Blatchford: Accused Michael Rafferty finally shows emotion, at sight of ex-girlfriend

But from the moment Ms. Lane walked into the courtroom until the moment she left, Mr. Rafferty’s eyes followed her.
She is a pretty 30-year-old with long dark hair who first met the meaty fellow in the prisoner’s box when they were both in Grade 6 in Drayton, a village of about 1,800 northwest of Guelph, Ont.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...ally-shows-emotion-at-sight-of-ex-girlfriend/

 

[BorgQueen]

My head is spinning after today. hwow:

So, they found spots of Tori's blood. One spot that was tested had traces of sperm cells mixed with it, although it was so little they could not create a DNA profile and determine who it belonged to, but it was there.
On the gym bag, Tori's blood was mixed with MR's blood.
MR's semen was found... all over the car. Including mixed with TLM's blood. moo: a note: MR's semen being found in his car isn't surprising. Men have sex in their cars more than one would like to believe. It being mixed with TLM's blood IS a bit surprising though... what did he do to HER? It being 'possibly' mixed with Tori's blood is even more surprising, but I do wish they had found enough for a DNA profile... I don't like vague results. They make me nervous :moo
And we have yet another girlfriend from the same period of time he is known to have had at least two more, including TLM). He really shows a lack of respect for others.
They could not get any DNA results from the shirt Tori was wearing, due to decomposition... it was so bad they couldn't even get results for Tori herself.

Am I getting this right?

ETA: meant to mention that piece of fabric from the seat (that I was hoping such a piece would be found)... blood was found on it, but the sample was so small that they could not extract a DNA profile.

 

[matou]

Mr. Rafferty was then living with an aunt and uncle there, Ms. Lane said, and though she went on to nearby Palmerston for high school, he didn’t, and she saw him there only once, when he came to the school from Toronto for a visit.

Why was MR living with an aunt and uncle in Drayton?

 

[matou]

She was in his unusual-looking car, a 2003 Honda Civic: It was blue with a black spray overcoat, she said, and the interior, including the dashboard, was painted white.

I guess the whole car interior was painted white when she last saw it. JMO

 

[swedie]

Christie Blatchford: Accused Michael Rafferty finally shows emotion, at sight of ex-girlfriend



http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...ally-shows-emotion-at-sight-of-ex-girlfriend/

:floorlaugh: We both read the same article about the same time.

 

[swedie]

Why was MR living with an aunt and uncle in Drayton?

:waitasec: Very, very interesting Matou. Troubles at home? Mom shipped him off? Good catch. Now if we only knew.:moo: It was reported he only received one credit in highschool and was a drop out in grade ten IIRC.

 

[swedie]

My head is spinning after today. hwow:

So, they found spots of Tori's blood. One spot that was tested had traces of sperm cells mixed with it, although it was so little they could not create a DNA profile and determine who it belonged to, but it was there.
On the gym bag, Tori's blood was mixed with MR's blood.
MR's semen was found... all over the car. Including mixed with TLM's blood. moo: a note: MR's semen being found in his car isn't surprising. Men have sex in their cars more than one would like to believe. It being mixed with TLM's blood IS a bit surprising though... what did he do to HER? It being 'possibly' mixed with Tori's blood is even more surprising, but I do wish they had found enough for a DNA profile... I don't like vague results. They make me nervous :moo
And we have yet another girlfriend from the same period of time he is known to have had at least two more, including TLM). He really shows a lack of respect for others.
They could not get any DNA results from the shirt Tori was wearing, due to decomposition... it was so bad they couldn't even get results for Tori herself.

Am I getting this right?

ETA: meant to mention that piece of fabric from the seat (that I was hoping such a piece would be found)... blood was found on it, but the sample was so small that they could not extract a DNA profile.

I believe you're right on BQ. More evidence to come. lease:

 

[swedie]

Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews

Lane says in Mar. 2009 she visited #Rafferty. Was in his blue Honda Civic. Says front dash was painted white. Rest of car was clean.:waitasec:

Dash was white but clean of paint everywhere else?
Dash was white, car was clean because he just cleaned it?
MR doesn't seem to be too clean about his car taking into account all the carp he had in there when LE took it into custody. Sounds like when Tori was in the back it wasn't too clean either. Tori crouching on water bottles. :furious: Wish reporters where more specific in their tweets. I do appreciate them though.:moo:

 

[crazyladi]

So what I understood is that Tori's blood as well as a mix of "male" semen was found on the door.

To me it seems as though there is no other person than MR.

Also I am wondering if the mix came from him getting her off him when he was done and her putting her hand down there in pain getting blood as well as his semen on her hand and possibly touching that side of the door? JMO

 

[matou]

But late in the afternoon, he gave a rare display of emotion.
Briefly in the witness box was 30-year-old Alexis Lane, whom Mr. Rafferty had dated until just a few days before Tori was killed.
The prosecution contends that the Honda’s back seat was jettisoned to get rid of incriminating evidence after Tori’s murder, and Ms. Lane was called to tell the jury that when she last saw Mr. Rafferty, both seats were intact.
As she left the courtroom, Mr. Rafferty watched her in tears, leaning forward and wiping his eyes.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ford-in-michael-raffertys-car/article2398421/