trial thread: 5/11/2012

[artsy1]

artsy1 I dont think there is any way that TS would allow herself to be admitted to any type of pysch ward. It would make her look bad in her eyes. I have no doubt she believes she is persuading the jury with her lies. She also would probably go ballistic if anyone called her crazy.

I think it would be involuntary. I know in CA you can involuntarily locked up for 72 hours if they think you are a threat to yourself or others - and personally I wouldn't be too sure how safe she or anyone was after that scene on the stand.

 

[artsy1]

I thought today was trial, Monday no trial and Tuesday Jury Instructions??

Judge told attys that he would be available this afternoon if they wanted to argue their motions - but he dismissed the jurors for the weekend.

 

[artsy1]

Is there somewhere online where I can catch up and watch the trial videos from the beginning? I know with the Casey Anthony trial a lot of sites had the videos from the previous days, but I can't find it for this trial. Thanks in advance!

The only thing I've found, from reading other sites this morning, is that someone recorded all of Tammi's cross and posted it in chunks on You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Bettychand?feature=mhee

 

[dizzychick]

This is a horrible situation. I firmly believe EJ didnt want Gabriel but she didnt want Logan to have him either. She also used Gabriel as a pawn to hurt Logan. To make matters worse she met some lady in an airport who wanted to adopt Gabriel. EJ thought it was perfect because that would really hurt Logan TS was happy she finally got someone to give their baby to her. I think EJ did flip flop as TS says and that is when TS gave EJ some ideas about what to do and how to do it. 2 mentally unstable people met and then things went down hill from there quickly.
I have seen a couple of people mention Logan's criminal record, EJ has a criminal record, so does TS. She has forgery charges before from my understanding at least a couple of times she was caught for. TS has other charges in her past as well. No one in this group has clean hands but Logan is the only one that has stepped up and said yes I have a record and yes this is what I did. TS cant even admit to a small lie when she is caught red handed on the stand.

what was TS's old forgery for? a check? or something else?

I knew a gal who was so bad with her bank account her hubby took her off it so she just started signing his name to the checks. years later they got a divorce and one day the phone rang. it was ex hubby in jail for a forged check that she signed years before. Poor guy had to go to jail then court and I dunno what happened other than he had to pay it and I bet it is on his record. Just an example of one peep I know who has a record he does not deserve. Not saying this applys to anyone in this case, just saying

 

[artsy1]

what was TS's old forgery for? a check? or something else?

I knew a gal who was so bad with her bank account her hubby took her off it so she just started signing his name to the checks. years later they got a divorce and one day the phone rang. it was ex hubby in jail for a forged check that she signed years before. Poor guy had to go to jail then court and I dunno what happened other than he had to pay it and I bet it is on his record. Just an example of one peep I know who has a record he does not deserve. Not saying this applys to anyone in this case, just saying

Her record was posted in yesterday's thread. She had 3 counts for forgery for forging her ex-husband's name on checks because "it was my money, too" - and that was after their divorce settlement.

She also has 2 other charges against her - one was assault, and one was disturbing the peace - both at different times. Her excuse for the assault, if I remember correctly, was that she had "accidentally brushed up against her ex-husband's new wife's arm and they went crazy and charged me with assault".

So between her and Logan, she's the only one who has ever had charges of violence filed against them.

 

[dizzychick]

Her record was posted in yesterday's thread. She had 3 counts for forgery for forging her ex-husband's name on checks because "it was my money, too" - and that was after their divorce settlement.

She also has 2 other charges against her - one was assault, and one was disturbing the peace - both at different times. Her excuse for the assault, if I remember correctly, was that she had "accidentally brushed up against her ex-husband's new wife's arm and they went crazy and charged me with assault".

So between her and Logan, she's the only one who has ever had charges of violence filed against them.

thank you I missed what those charges were but I thought perhaps since she had a prior marriage/custody battle this was the case as it was with my friend who got her ex in a lot of trouble. At the time I remember running around with her and she needed gas one day so she wrote a check at the gas station another time we went shopping and she bought groceries and signed his name too. I have no idea which check it was years later that got him in trouble but it is so very common with spouses and divorces. it was a big hassle for him cause his car got towed they stopped him on a traffic violation and he had no idea about those old checks.

Yes I would most definetly advise her to just fess up on old cases. I had a client once who was in a custody battle and I told her 18 times its better to admit to the pot then lie and get caught. What happened when they asked her if she smoked pot? " Oh no never" so the judge sent her that day for the test. Bingo, she lost and even after I told her "I told you so", she still blames the ex, me and everybody else. Some people just dont take advice well.

 

[Troubled]

She has to qualify all of her answers. It was a simple yes or no question but she is going to qualify why its a yes or its a no. IMO that is a sure sign of a liar.

 

[Troubled]

Dizzy I dont think if it was one forgery charge in her past that it would be an issue. Its when you look at her entire past, then look at ALL HER actions in this case it just goes to show she was very much involved with custodial interference and forgery (IMO). There is just way to many things for it to be "Oh I didnt know" type of situation.

 

[dizzychick]

It will be interesting to see what the jury thinks. the lawyers/judges have seen at least these forgery cases and how they go along with divorces/checking acounts a million times, to them its just different names same song. what is somewhat intriguing is this other charge of custodial interreference in a 3rd party that is not a usual case.

 

[OneLove]

It will be interesting to see what the jury thinks. the lawyers/judges have seen at least these forgery cases and how they go along with divorces/checking acounts a million times, to them its just different names same song. what is somewhat intriguing is this other charge of custodial interreference in a 3rd party that is not a usual case.

I hope the jury can distinguish the difference between an entitled spouse writing a check and forging a signature and FALSE information on a document meant to steal a baby from his parent. HUGE DIFFERENCE. So the forgery itself is QUITE serious, in addition to custodial interference.

I tend to guess that TS herself would flippantly write off this egregious act of forgery intended to steal a child as nothing more serious than the forgery she already was convicted on years ago. Again, allowing the difference to go without note is, IMO, very enabling and breeds contempt for ethical behavior.

Today in the LA Times is an article announcing that the sentencing of Stephanie Lazarus, a former law enforcement officer, to 27 years for murdering her former boyfriend's new wife. Why did she do this? Because she was angry AND she felt entitled to, simple as that. Here is a quote from the article: " Lazarus' profound narcissism led her to kill and continues to motivate her denial of responsibility.". How does a person reach adulthood able to deny responsibility for murder? THOSE AROUND THEM DO NOT HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR WRONGDOINGS.

Tammi's life is littered with wrongdoings, while she's blamed everyone but herself for her choices. Stephanie Lazarus was "only" a self-entitled narcissist, right up until she was a killer. Let TS go without holding her accountable for her ADMITTED forgery and giving false information intended to interfere with custodial rights and you might as well be breeding a worse act next time. She will walk out feeling self-righteous and smug that her lies and bimbo routine fooled everyone. And look out world; the neurological trunk within her brain that says she is RIGHT to have done what she did will be reinforced a million-fold. Do we want THAT walking around free?

 

[Boots-OK]

I dont want to miss her lawyers testimony. Wondering if that will seal her fate one way or the other. If he told her to put down a John Doe or put down the name JOHN DOE how do you prove she knew the difference and I asked this before do you have to prove criminal intent in order to convict? If so i cant see the state winning. I wonder if this case was filed against her purley as a form or harrassment cause they felt at least at the time she knew the whereabouts of the baby? it seems so silly and a waste of taxpayers money. She may be a nut, chatty, out of style etc etc but big deal that does not make her a criminal or at least it sounds like she was caught up in EJ's fiasco and worried about the baby. I just dont see them convicting her and from what little I could hear yesterday as the tape was running out anfd getting pixelated they were discussing lesser lncludeds which means the judge knows they cant get her on the law she was charged with. I think

Hello, Dizzy....I, respectfully, disagree. I see TS as a predator of young and vulnerable women. She has a very public record of trying to adopt, surrogate and doing whatever she needed to do to secure a baby. I believe the evidence is clear and convincing that she commited fraud and interfered in Logan's custodial rights to his child.

Since each of the charges carry a maximum of 3 years - she probably won't do much time if she's found guilty. But...she should, imo. There are just some acts that deserve punishing and her behavior warrants it - yes, even if it costs us taxpayers. We have to draw the line somewhere. It's easy for me because I consider parental rights sacred and she violated that right terribly.

Jmho

 

[MissJames]

Her record was posted in yesterday's thread. She had 3 counts for forgery for forging her ex-husband's name on checks because "it was my money, too" - and that was after their divorce settlement.

She also has 2 other charges against her - one was assault, and one was disturbing the peace - both at different times. Her excuse for the assault, if I remember correctly, was that she had "accidentally brushed up against her ex-husband's new wife's arm and they went crazy and charged me with assault".

So between her and Logan, she's the only one who has ever had charges of violence filed against them.

TS always justifies whatever crimes she commits. Yeah,it might be against the law ,but I had a good reason. The good reason always benefits Tammi.

 

[MissJames]

It will be interesting to see what the jury thinks. the lawyers/judges have seen at least these forgery cases and how they go along with divorces/checking acounts a million times, to them its just different names same song. what is somewhat intriguing is this other charge of custodial interreference in a 3rd party that is not a usual case.

BBM
Yep, you are correct ,just like the family court judge had seen millions of parents making accusations to gain custody,he down played Logan's pleas that Gabriel was not safe with EJ . Logan wanted to have Gabriel the majority of the time . But of course ,the judge made assumptions because he'd seen this scenario millions of times so he ignored Logan. Logan never saw Gabriel again. The judge made the wrong assumption and Gabriel paid the price.
Yep, just another couple of kids in a bickering match. See it in court every day. God help the next Gabriel.

 

[dizzychick]

Vinnie Politian and some woman who was with him just said she was genuine in her comments and though rambling sounds consistent in her part of this mess. They think although her intentions were to help she may have stepped over the legal line in doing so.

Beth Karas said even though she was very chatty and talktive they will not judge her on that. So i guess its up to the jury.

These papers that were forged was this adoption papers of Tammi's?


I know one thing the defense has done a great job on and that is confusing the heck out of me. The jury i assume are taking notes and will try to nail down the offense with the charge. But I heard awhole lot of nuttin with 2 days of this rambling and no real sign of a crime. I thought her understanding for the name of teh father was Logan and the other possibilities like a John Doe which I dont get?

 

[dizzychick]

I hope the jury can distinguish the difference between an entitled spouse writing a check and forging a signature and FALSE information on a document meant to steal a baby from his parent. HUGE DIFFERENCE. So the forgery itself is QUITE serious, in addition to custodial interference.

I tend to guess that TS herself would flippantly write off this egregious act of forgery intended to steal a child as nothing more serious than the forgery she already was convicted on years ago. Again, allowing the difference to go without note is, IMO, very enabling and breeds contempt for ethical behavior.

Today in the LA Times is an article announcing that the sentencing of Stephanie Lazarus, a former law enforcement officer, to 27 years for murdering her former boyfriend's new wife. Why did she do this? Because she was angry AND she felt entitled to, simple as that. Here is a quote from the article: " Lazarus' profound narcissism led her to kill and continues to motivate her denial of responsibility.". How does a person reach adulthood able to deny responsibility for murder? THOSE AROUND THEM DO NOT HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR WRONGDOINGS.

Tammi's life is littered with wrongdoings, while she's blamed everyone but herself for her choices. Stephanie Lazarus was "only" a self-entitled narcissist, right up until she was a killer. Let TS go without holding her accountable for her ADMITTED forgery and giving false information intended to interfere with custodial rights and you might as well be breeding a worse act next time. She will walk out feeling self-righteous and smug that her lies and bimbo routine fooled everyone. And look out world; the neurological trunk within her brain that says she is RIGHT to have done what she did will be reinforced a million-fold. Do we want THAT walking around free?

I think I saw that case on TV that was a lady cop and I recall it was a long time before they caught her. She went into the ladys apartment and killed her and they found finally some sort of evidence much later that convicted her. That was a murder I dunno if i would group chatty Tammi with murder just yet.

I know a real murderer who walks the streets free as a bird now and if she comes back or shall I say when she comes back with another crime, I will be looking at her weird.

 

[MissJames]

Vinnie Politian and some woman who was with him just said she was genuine in her comments and though rambling sounds consistent in her part of this mess. They think although her intentions were to help she may have stepped over the legal line in doing so.

Beth Karas said even though she was very chatty and talktive they will not judge her on that. So i guess its up to the jury.

These papers that were forged was this adoption papers of Tammi's?


I know one thing the defense has done a great job on and that is confusing the heck out of me. The jury i assume are taking notes and will try to nail down the offense with the charge. But I heard awhole lot of nuttin with 2 days of this rambling and no real sign of a crime. I thought her understanding for the name of teh father was Logan and the other possibilities like a John Doe which I dont get?

BBM
C'mon Dizzy .Are you just messing with us? :slap:

The court papers that Tammi forged were EJ's response to Logan's request for custody ,trying to stall Logan's rights to Gabriel.
Tammi S. had no business writing anything on those papers.The TPS worker told her to stay out of it ,but Tammi believed if EJ claimed there might be other possible father's it would stall Logan's ability to claim his paternal rights.
Tammi knew her cousin wasn't Gabriel's father but SHE wrote his name in EJ's response to the court ,hoping the judge wouldn't let Logan have any rights to Gabriel.
I don't think it's the Defense that has caused confusion. You just don't haven't heard everything the jurors have heard .They'll be able to sort it out.

 

[MissJames]

I hope the jury can distinguish the difference between an entitled spouse writing a check and forging a signature and FALSE information on a document meant to steal a baby from his parent. HUGE DIFFERENCE. So the forgery itself is QUITE serious, in addition to custodial interference.

I tend to guess that TS herself would flippantly write off this egregious act of forgery intended to steal a child as nothing more serious than the forgery she already was convicted on years ago. Again, allowing the difference to go without note is, IMO, very enabling and breeds contempt for ethical behavior.

Today in the LA Times is an article announcing that the sentencing of Stephanie Lazarus, a former law enforcement officer, to 27 years for murdering her former boyfriend's new wife. Why did she do this? Because she was angry AND she felt entitled to, simple as that. Here is a quote from the article: " Lazarus' profound narcissism led her to kill and continues to motivate her denial of responsibility.". How does a person reach adulthood able to deny responsibility for murder? THOSE AROUND THEM DO NOT HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR WRONGDOINGS.

Tammi's life is littered with wrongdoings, while she's blamed everyone but herself for her choices. Stephanie Lazarus was "only" a self-entitled narcissist, right up until she was a killer. Let TS go without holding her accountable for her ADMITTED forgery and giving false information intended to interfere with custodial rights and you might as well be breeding a worse act next time. She will walk out feeling self-righteous and smug that her lies and bimbo routine fooled everyone. And look out world; the neurological trunk within her brain that says she is RIGHT to have done what she did will be reinforced a million-fold. Do we want THAT walking around free?

Every time we hear about a woman killing another woman to get her newborn or worse,to cut the baby out of it's mother before birth, questions always pop up . Didn't anyone see any signs? Couldn't this have been stopped?

The lengths to which Tammi was willing to go to get a baby screams of obsession and desparation.Would she go as far as murder? IDK,but there sure are some big honkin; red flags IMO.
Tammi felt entitled to Logan's child. She rationalized every dirty trick she pulled. IMO she's a threat to society .She's a predator .
JMHO.

 

[MissJames]

Here's a link to the info on TS ,the arrest and charges ,for anyone not familiar with the details. Although I've followed the case, I learn more interesting tidbits every day .

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95041"]Tammi Smith -The Charges - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[katiecoolady]

Hello! Also watching a bit of this trial happening in my own city. Would sure like to get to closing arguments and see the State's in person- kinda busy right now but maybe could swing a morning. I don't think I could stomach the defense closing if it was that annoying male atty. what a piece of work this chick is! She's her own worst enemy aside from her lawyer putting her on. They jury will want to convict her of something out of sheer annoyance!!

 

[artsy1]

Hmm, just thinking about a question Prosecution should find out, if they already hadn't.

TPS testified that the night of the neighborhood Christmas party, she was making Gabriel green smoothies. So, does that mean that she took him to the Christmas party with her, and if so, how did she introduce him?

Because according to her testimony, she knew from the beginning that they weren't going to adopt him (yet I heard that she posted photos on FB of H and Gabriel together with the caption, something like H and her new baby brother), so if Gabriel did go to the Christmas party, how did TPS introduce him? A friend of mine's baby? Our new baby, Gabriel? Our new baby, Jacob?

Wonder if LE ever questioned the neighbors about that party?