GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[Herat]

:waitasec:

I've tried to detail the common homeless / scavenger profile before. Z is very atypical of that profile. He is homeless by choice and is deemed naive and unstable by his family. I wouldn't be surprised if Z turns out to be computer or Internet literate. His family appears lower-middle class.

We'll see.

Z is now an English-literate internet-savy mentally unstable homeless guy who makes his living by collecting refuse? :what:

As we presume he would have to use internet cafes for his contacts with SS, wouldn't cafes or shops find it odd or even objectionable for what appears to be a street person using their facilities? I ask because I think that would be an aberrant pattern easily noticed by everyone around.

I just don't find this a very credible profile of Z.:waitasec:

 

[Eileen730]

:waitasec:

Z is now an English-literate internet-savy mentally unstable homeless guy who makes his living by collecting refuse? :what:

As we presume he would have to use internet cafes for his contacts with SS, wouldn't cafes or shops find it odd or even objectionable for what appears to be a street person using their facilities? I ask because I think that would be an aberrant pattern easily noticed by everyone around.

I just don't find this a very credible profile of Z.:waitasec:

Maybe they are trying to paint a different pic of this person.
He may be nothing like what they are saying he is.

 

[Herat]

Maybe they are trying to paint a different pic of this person.
He may be nothing like what they are saying he is.

I await the comments from our dedicated Turkish WS Investigators......

 

[KuriousKev]

Maybe they are trying to paint a different pic of this person.
He may be nothing like what they are saying he is.

Earlier reports says her phone was recharged and Skype account accessed...maybe Z needed to makes some business calls or banking.

 

[ToutCa]

Hi everyone, I'm back after a mini-vacation rightfully imposed by the mods for off-topic bickering. Much respect to all my fellow posters, and it won't happen again!

The case against Z looks as uncertain as it did 48 hrs ago when I left.

There are some circumstantial elements that make him definitely worth looking at. But I haven't seen the DNA rumors in the sensationalist Turkish press confirmed -- (that DNA samples taken from Z's family matched the perp DNA). Unless anyone has seen otherwise??

The most mainstream and credible of Turkish media, Hurriyet, just posted on its news blog TODAY that Turkish LE are still pursuing 3 lines of investigation:
LINK
(1) Homeless denizens of the walls, including but not exclusively "Z"
(2) SS's Instagram and gmail contacts
(3) SS's side trip, and in particular the mysterious "Munich" leg

I think we all hope there is solid DNA evidence and it nails the perp or perps. But it appears at the moment that many avenues of LE investigation are still open. (And just about all of our plausible theories are still on the table).

 

[ThinkHard]

I've been thinking about this Ziya character. And a thought occurred to me. I recall the police making a comment in the press that they were frustrated with the press because it was making it hard for them to do their job because the people they need to speak too are being scared off. This made me think, why would people be scared off to speak to the police about believing a homeless garbage collector was the perp. I don't think they would. I also don't think a homeless garbage collector would kill someone in his own home, leave the body there, and cover it with his own blanket, they just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

So I was thinking why would Ziya run? Why would he have been covered in dirt? Perhaps its not the cops Ziya is running from. Perhaps Ziya came upon the seen after SS had been killed but while the Perp was still there, maybe he was going to his home for a nap, maybe he heard screams, but perhaps when he saw the scene and the real perp he fled. Maybe he even knew the perp, maybe the perp was a known "criminal element" , maybe the perp even threatened or chased Ziya. Perhaps Ziya did fall down the walls that day, and it was because he was fleeing the scene bug not because he did it, but because he was a witness to it. Maybe he fled Istanbul in fear of his life, not in fear of the cops.

Just some thoughts.

 

[ThinkHard]

Additionally i just want to say: I needed to step back and take a break from this board for a while. It was definitely getting the best of me. And between that and feeling under the weather (Lyme symptoms having their way with me) I guess my patience went out the window. It's really not in my character to be so rude, so my sincere apologies to anyone I offended.
I really do appreciate the mods keeping tabs on these boards and making sure we are all reminded to be respectful of each other.

 

[SANDOVAL]

I think that hat is more of a knit cap. I'm not really seeing the brim of the cap she wears. The jacket is similar.

I'm convinced those aren't the boots we've seen. Those do not have a heel or a wedge. They are very flat boots.

And I agree that woman looks a little bigger and heavier. Sarai was described as 5'2", about 100 pounds.

I get the impression she has a phone up to her right ear, held in her right hand, at the end.

Hmmm....if this is a sample of the kind of camera footage that has not been released from SS last walk, maybe that story about her being seen on that last walk is , indeed, purposeful misinformation... to deflect attention from the other theory about her being attacked in some unknown location and then taken to the walls.
Her bag looked 'packed', all her things she would need for her flight are in the room, and to take a long walk instead of getting ready for the flight home has seemed strange from the beginning, except they supposedly have footage of that walk.......but if it's anything like this, I don't believe it.

 

[ToutCa]

I've been thinking about this Ziya character. And a thought occurred to me. I recall the police making a comment in the press that they were frustrated with the press because it was making it hard for them to do their job because the people they need to speak too are being scared off. This made me think, why would people be scared off to speak to the police...(respectfully snipped)
So I was thinking why would Ziya run?

Very interesting. I hadn't thought of Z as a possible witness.

Another possibility is that he just drifted off elsewhere as homeless vagrants are wont to do. It's my understanding they are trying to track quite a few homeless people down who vanished from the walls around that time, and that "Z" was just the most suspicious among them (with the dirt and "fall from city walls" story).

And like you, I've wondered since they said it about LE telling the press to stop speculating as it would scare witnesses off. It could be "organized-crime"-type witnesses, but to me the possibilities are still open. Maybe they were having trouble getting the homeless community to open up as well for fear of the repercussions. (For example, now Z's extended family is even more under the LE/press microscope than SS's, Taylan's or Amsterdam Ammer's ever were)...

 

[ToutCa]

Additionally i just want to say: I needed to step back and take a break from this board for a while. It was definitely getting the best of me. And between that and feeling under the weather (Lyme symptoms having their way with me) I guess my patience went out the window. It's really not in my character to be so rude, so my sincere apologies to anyone I offended.
I really do appreciate the mods keeping tabs on these boards and making sure we are all reminded to be respectful of each other.

I hope you are not gone for too long, because you have had valuable insights and been an important voice in the community. Get better, and come back any time you can think of anything that can help us achieve justice in this case.

 

[ThinkHard]

I hope you are not gone for too long, because you have had valuable insights and been an important voice in the community. Get better, and come back any time you can think of anything that can help us achieve justice in this case.

Don't worry I'll be around. I gave myself a nice long time away from websleuths yesterday, and had a wonderful dinner out for Valentine's day.

 

[english]

I've been thinking about this Ziya character. And a thought occurred to me. I recall the police making a comment in the press that they were frustrated with the press because it was making it hard for them to do their job because the people they need to speak too are being scared off. This made me think, why would people be scared off to speak to the police about believing a homeless garbage collector was the perp. I don't think they would. I also don't think a homeless garbage collector would kill someone in his own home, leave the body there, and cover it with his own blanket, they just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

So I was thinking why would Ziya run? Why would he have been covered in dirt? Perhaps its not the cops Ziya is running from. Perhaps Ziya came upon the seen after SS had been killed but while the Perp was still there, maybe he was going to his home for a nap, maybe he heard screams, but perhaps when he saw the scene and the real perp he fled. Maybe he even knew the perp, maybe the perp was a known "criminal element" , maybe the perp even threatened or chased Ziya. Perhaps Ziya did fall down the walls that day, and it was because he was fleeing the scene bug not because he did it, but because he was a witness to it. Maybe he fled Istanbul in fear of his life, not in fear of the cops.

Just some thoughts.

I've been thinking along the same lines. Or maybe he didn't see anything, just found the body with his blanket and feared he would automatically take the rap. I'm suspecting several of the homeless knew the body was there and that is why they have fled. Obviously the police do need to trace him as a line of enquiry but maybe they have let the media focus on him so that they can put their efforts into tracing others without too much media attention.

 

[ThinkHard]

I've been thinking along the same lines. Or maybe he didn't see anything, just found the body with his blanket and feared he would automatically take the rap. I'm suspecting several of the homeless knew the body was there and that is why they have fled. Obviously the police do need to trace him as a line of enquiry but maybe they have let the media focus on him so that they can put their efforts into tracing others without too much media attention.

Yes I agree with you.

I'm just not really believing this homeless man killed her story. I mean most people wouldn't kill someone in their own home and leave the body, so why would a homeless man? That's just one thing I find odd.

But as someone who lived in Istanbul I just really can't wrap my head around why someone would walk around that area alone. I still feel like she was meeting someone there.

I also just can't quite jump on board with the idea that just because someone is homeless means they are looking to victimize everyone that walks by. Random crime, especially random violent crime in Istanbul is just not very common. Had this story been reported in the US or in most other European countries I might see that scenario of random attack to be a little more believable. But I'm just having trouble buying it being that violent and it being random in Istanbul.

Maybe I just don't want to believe it. But I'd like to think its a little more then that.

In Istanbul as a female American you worry about being hit on, being chatted up, about persistent men, maybe about being overcharged by a shop, cafe, or cab.....but not random violence. At least that's my opinion.

 

[Miziree]

I don't know much about DNA testing, but if they just took the brother's DNA how would they have been able to match it in a day or two? Does anyone know? This report doesn't make sense to me - don't think it's possible.

Someone hinted awhile ago on another thread about rapid Dna so I looked it up. I'm not sure they could or did use it in this case but I was shocked to find out how quickly that can process it..90 minutes... http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/091812-rapid-dna-262569.html with this device..

 

[SANDOVAL]

A long while back, it was said that the homeless people from that area had been 'moved out'. There was speculation (perhaps with humane concern) as to where they would be 'moved' to......so i don't yet understand where they went, in terms of LE 'searching for' 27 people.They don't just vanish unless all were somehow involved.

 

[NewYork625]

Earlier reports says her phone was recharged and Skype account accessed...maybe Z needed to makes some business calls or banking.

I could be wrong, but I thought they said her phone was briefly turned on. I don't remember anything about it being recharged.

 

[Herat]

Earlier reports says her phone was recharged and Skype account accessed...maybe Z needed to makes some business calls or banking.

Yes. I believe he was checking Apple stock. It was iffy there for a bit..

*This case is making me crazy crazy now heading to loopiness*

 

[NewYork625]

I've been thinking about this Ziya character. And a thought occurred to me. I recall the police making a comment in the press that they were frustrated with the press because it was making it hard for them to do their job because the people they need to speak too are being scared off. This made me think, why would people be scared off to speak to the police about believing a homeless garbage collector was the perp. I don't think they would. I also don't think a homeless garbage collector would kill someone in his own home, leave the body there, and cover it with his own blanket, they just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

So I was thinking why would Ziya run? Why would he have been covered in dirt? Perhaps its not the cops Ziya is running from. Perhaps Ziya came upon the seen after SS had been killed but while the Perp was still there, maybe he was going to his home for a nap, maybe he heard screams, but perhaps when he saw the scene and the real perp he fled. Maybe he even knew the perp, maybe the perp was a known "criminal element" , maybe the perp even threatened or chased Ziya. Perhaps Ziya did fall down the walls that day, and it was because he was fleeing the scene bug not because he did it, but because he was a witness to it. Maybe he fled Istanbul in fear of his life, not in fear of the cops.

Just some thoughts.

Interesting theory, but it makes sense to me that a mentally unstable, homeless (self imposed) trash collector/scavenger might possibly have delusions, and/or fanatical views (or he might just be paranoid/schizophrenic), and see Sarai as a member of the CIA who was even more threatening because she had a camera. He may have believed he was doing the right thing killing her, but then some part of him realized he would be in trouble, and he fled. He may have taken her ipad and phone because he thought there was "sensitive" material on them.

LE saying they were afraid people were being scared off may have referred to the homeless in the area who are now missing. The others may have discovered the body, or been told about it by Z, and fled for fear of being implicated.

 

[english]

Yes I agree with you.

I'm just not really believing this homeless man killed her story. I mean most people wouldn't kill someone in their own home and leave the body, so why would a homeless man? That's just one thing I find odd.

I think it's the word "homeless". But the cave is his "home".

But as someone who lived in Istanbul I just really can't wrap my head around why someone would walk around that area alone. I still feel like she was meeting someone there.

I haven't lived in Istanbul but have visited many times. Before I knew the area well, I was out for a walk alone one morning and found myself on Kennedy Cad from Kumkapi district. I knew it would take me to the Galata bridge so carried on walking, all the time not knowing whether to turn around or carry on as I was scared. There were cars but not so many that a car couldn't have stopped and dragged me in. I encountered 3 other walkers - an elderly local man and a young couple. I can see how a tourist could think it would be a pleasant walk along the waterside but my judgement is clouded by my experience.

I also just can't quite jump on board with the idea that just because someone is homeless means they are looking to victimize everyone that walks by. Random crime, especially random violent crime in Istanbul is just not very common. Had this story been reported in the US or in most other European countries I might see that scenario of random attack to be a little more believable. But I'm just having trouble buying it being that violent and it being random in Istanbul.

In England, random attack maybe - random attack by homeless person extremely unlikely.

Maybe I just don't want to believe it. But I'd like to think its a little more then that.

In Istanbul as a female American you worry about being hit on, being chatted up, about persistent men, maybe about being overcharged by a shop, cafe, or cab.....but not random violence. At least that's my opinion.

I'm a European female who agrees with you. In my many visits the only time I have ever felt unsafe was that walk along Kennedy Cad.

 

[english]

Interesting theory, but it makes sense to me that a mentally unstable, homeless (self imposed) trash collector/scavenger might possibly have delusions, and/or fanatical views (or he might just be paranoid/schizophrenic), and see Sarai as a member of the CIA who was even more threatening because she had a camera. He may have believed he was doing the right thing killing her, but then some part of him realized he would be in trouble, and he fled. He may have taken her ipad and phone because he thought there was "sensitive" material on them.

LE saying they were afraid people were being scared off may have referred to the homeless in the area who are now missing. The others may have discovered the body, or been told about it by Z, and fled for fear of being implicated.

I can certainly see this as a scenario as well given that he mentioned he mentioned her as a member of the CIA to his sister.