TX - 22 killed, 26 injured at Walmart, Cielo Vista, El Paso, 3 Aug 2019 *ARREST*

[otto]

<modsnip>

Focus on the victims' lives, not the terror of their final moments...I went to a Pulse shooting vigil in my local area and they gave a eulogy for each of the victims stating who they were, their interests, goals, etc.

Part of solving the problem is understanding the problem. If these are homegrown radical shooters targeting an identifiable group, that's a rather serious problem. This type of crime occurred in Norway and New Zealand. I recall reading that New Zealand banned some information from publication, maybe the shooter's name. Norway is still dealing with the aftermath of the attack, but Norway is much smaller than the US. Maybe this will be little more than a blip on the big US picture, maybe it means the beginning of change.

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip>

Focus on the victims' lives, not the terror of their final moments...I went to a Pulse shooting vigil in my local area and they gave a eulogy for each of the victims stating who they were, their interests, goals, etc.

Unfortunately, publication of human suffering can be necessary to alert the public and help the public to be more aware. Publication of tragic events has led to mass movements as people recognize the humanity and suffering of others and are moved by it.

And when it comes specifically to these cowardly mass murders, videos of the horror have actually inspired teenagers to report things fellow students or friends have said and for parents to take a closer look at their kids who might have issues.

I am not advocating a society that removes publication of anything unpleasant because some might be traumatized. I am advocating a society that doesn't glorify specific criminals.

I think otherwise we do fairly well at present with warnings about graphic content, and things like that, so people can turn the channel or get their kids out of the room.

I;m not for a nanny state.

 

[gitana1]

VIVA El Paso!!

Beautiful.

 

[gitana1]

Sorry y'all, but I really do need to know the who and the why when these massacres occur. It's not about notoriety. It's about trying to determine the contributing factors in these senseless crimes. There is no benefit in burying our heads in the sand. It's a complex issue that requires scrutiny.

I'm also not offended by the videos/pics of the victims. Maybe, if more people understand the victims of these massacres are real, innocent humans, we'll be more inclined to stop it from happening again and again and again.

JMHO

You can do ALL of that without splashing their names and large photos everywhere. "The 21 year old suspect was from blank, worked at blank, graduated from blank, had social media indicating whatever, etc. "

 

[Fairy1]

You can do ALL of that without splashing their names and large photos everywhere. "The 21 year old suspect was from blank, worked at blank, graduated from blank, had social media indicating whatever, etc. "

Totally understand your POV - but the thing is, as long as social media exists, you can't keep any cat in the bag. All will be revealed, regardless.

 

[FLmom777]

Like in Orlando.

Orlando didn’t have armed guards. They had security but not armed.

 

[kiaatcher]

I disagree on not showing graphic content. In many ways it's helped me change my opinion on different topics.
The graphic videos from Parkland helped me realize the gravity of school shootings. It encouraged my otherwise secluded self to engage in discussions in class about school shootings and participate in walkouts to hear opposing opinions.
On other topics, animal slaughter house videos helped me change my lifestyle, videos of riots and violence towards innocent citizens changed my stance on other countries and their political systems, etc.
These allow us to put ourselves in the shoes of the recipient of the violence and truly understand the destruction of it.
Now, of course we could argue on whether or not it is ethical in terms of survivors, family, etc. That I would have to think about more...

 

[FLmom777]

Have there even been any mass shootings in America that involved more than one shooter besides Columbine? All the ones that keep popping into my head were single shooters.

Santa Barbara was husband and wife

 

[GordianKnot]

Soldier describes carrying children to safety from El Paso mall: 'What I'm supposed to do'
SABBM:
"I was putting the babies before myself because I just thought about if I had a child and if I wasn't around my child, how I would want another man to react if they [saw] my child running around without me around," he said.

When Scott thanked him for his actions, Oakley responded: "That's what I'm supposed to do."

Oakley was buying a jersey in a sports store and initially heard about the shooting when a "little kid" came in and said that there was an active shooter. The shooting took place in and around a Walmart near the mall.

He initially dismissed the news but said things changed when he heard the gunshots. "I'm in the military and I also have my license to carry ... being in the military you just instantly think fast ... take cover, get whoever you can," he said.

Also, video of him being interviewed on scene is here:

Ryan Saavedra on Twitter
___________________________________________

For anyone who hasn't yet heard this story about U.S. Army Specialist, Glen Oakley, it's definitely worth a watch and listen. I've watched it a few times to make myself feel better about humanity as a whole.

He's one of the Good Guys.

In an otherwise terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad day, we need to reminded there are still people like Specialist Oakley in the world.

Brave people. Decent people. Honorable people.

The Army really should award Specialist Oakley a medal. It doesn't matter that he was off duty.

His heroic actions today saved American lives.
Children's lives.

He. Is. Awesome.

I'm actually much more interested in focusing on the brave, selfless actions of Specialist Oakley than on the senseless, self-centered actions of the No-Name shooter.

JMO.

 

[Fairy1]

I disagree on not showing graphic content. In many ways it's helped me change my opinion on different topics.
The graphic videos from Parkland helped me realize the gravity of school shootings. It encouraged my otherwise secluded self to engage in discussions in class about school shootings and participate in walkouts to hear opposing opinions.
On other topics, animal slaughter house videos helped me change my lifestyle, videos of riots and violence towards innocent citizens changed my stance on other countries and their political systems, etc.
These allow us to put ourselves in the shoes of the recipient of the violence and truly understand the destruction of it.
Now, of course we could argue on whether or not it is ethical in terms of survivors, family, etc. That I would have to think about more...

We are ALL in the shoes of the victims of these slaughters. All of us. Today's El Paso victims were simply shopping at Walmart. Last week's Gilroy victims were simply enjoying a family-friendly festival. The Route 66 victims in Vegas were simply enjoying a music festival. Etc., etc., etc.

I totally support any and every effort to put the emphasis on the victims of these crimes. But we just can't turn a blind eye to their murderers. We need to understand why they do what they do and how to prevent it from happening again.

 

[LietKynes]

It seems all too convenient that when a terrorist attack occurs involving people of a certain ethnicity/nationality, the MSM doesn't hesitate at all to publish their names ad infinitum.

But when an attack occurs that is perpetrated by a home-grown terrorist, all of a sudden the MSM is all righteous about not wanting to say the name of the terrorist.

This is a double-standard and, IMO, reveals the hypocrisy of the news coverage.

These damn home-grown terrorists should be excoriated by every means possible. I wholesale reject the lie we're being sold that we can't mention these domestic terrorist's names.

Call them what they are and demand that our legislators pass laws that call them what they are: They are Domestic Terrorists.

BBM

Agree with you about the domestic terrorists.
As far as shutting down the platform they love so much (think of any site that is known for any manner of unpleasant behavior); actually, maybe not.
Let the loser have a voice in their forums.
But I want to know who they are and what they're planning .
Some of these types are stupid enough to broadcast their goals. They are the ones who need to be watched.
There are other ways to fight this happening again.

So much anger and mental instability.
And we don't know at this time if the perp is a nut case or just evil -- but with his mental faculties intact.

Rest in gentle peace to the precious souls who lost their lives today.
I am so sorry for their surviving loved ones. Their pain is just beginning.

 

[Gardenista]

Army veteran hailed a hero after braving gunfire during El Paso massacre to rescue crying children | Daily Mail Online

 

[LietKynes]

It's annoying that the types of monsters who commit these crimes get 3 hots and a cot.
Pamela Smart (murdered her husband with the help of her teen lovers) even completed college courses in prison.

The Walmart killer deserves to be thrown into a cell and throw away the key.
What a pity he didn't go out in his 'blaze of glory'.

Now there'll most likely be an expensive trial at the taxpayer's expense.

This creep will get protective custody and a high profile lawyer funded by the very citizens who live there. And some who died there, as well.

 

[fabvab]

Video at the link

Devastating....a woman just rushed up to all the media outside the #WalMart in #ElPaso ...... “all I want to do is find my mom.”

Alex Rozier on Twitter

Oh my, how horrible. This video on twitter shows the reality and tragedy of the terrible event.

 

[Safeguard]

We are ALL in the shoes of the victims of these slaughters. All of us. Today's El Paso victims were simply shopping at Walmart. Last week's Gilroy victims were simply enjoying a family-friendly festival. The Route 66 victims in Vegas were simply enjoying a music festival. Etc., etc., etc.

I totally support any and every effort to put the emphasis on the victims of these crimes. But we just can't turn a blind eye to their murderers. We need to understand why they do what they do and how to prevent it from happening again.

Is is true. I hate that my Daughter has to have active shooter lock down drills at school now.

 

[cherrymeg]

Here, here. As someone who teaches in a correctional facility, I can add my anecdotal evidence/ experiences to support this. So many times, help was sought by the inmates themselves or by their families - and there was no help to be found. Not excusing criminal behavior, just saying there is No HELP out there for most.

Any time there is a shooter I think of Sylvia Seegrist. Her parents tried to get help for her. I think they influenced the laws in PA and her mother has been outspoken about mental illness. Sylvia Seegrist - Wikipedia

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

The mass shooting at an El Paso Walmart could be prosecuted as a hate crime after investigators discovered an anti-immigrant diatribe possibly connected to the suspect.

"Right now we have a manifesto from this individual that indicates a possible hate crime," El Paso Police Chief Greg Allen said at a Saturday press conference.

Allen said investigators still need to validate whether the so-called "manifesto" belongs to suspected shooter, identified by two law enforcement agents as P C, a 21-year-old resident of Allen, Texas.

El Paso Walmart shooting: Suspect could face hate crime prosecution

Name changed to initials by me.
We know he chose to drive 9 or 10 hours to attack people in the El Paso community rather than his own community.

 

[LietKynes]

I apologize for the multiple posts! Can anyone remind me how to delete them?

Go back and edit with DBM (deleted by me)
After a while, you can't edit.
But you can contact a mod and ask for your post to be deleted, I think.

 

[rkendmar]

terrorist; noun: a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

<modsnip>

 

[reedus23]

If you use the definition of domestic terrorism as found on the FBI's website:

Domestic terrorism: Perpetrated by individuals and/or groups inspired by or associated with primarily U.S.-based movements that espouse extremist ideologies of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.

I would suggest that it SHOULD fit the definition. <modsnip>