GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #7

[CatFancier]

I felt pretty sheltered as a child. When I was under 8, we could only play in the cul-de-sac with permission. Over 8, we couldn't cross the "big road" which had a 35mph speed limit. We were only allowed to go to one friend's house a block away and play on the side street.

Compared with other kids my age, I couldn't do anything. We even had a fenced backyard with little locks on the gates. I couldn't walk to the store (it was a mile away and across the "big road").

However, at 6, I too was approached walking home three blocks from school on a major street. I remember his face and his long hair and a big tan car (maybe your guy's son gitana!). I ran as fast as my legs would carry me after he offered me candy for a ride. Days after, when a neighbor (a mom from the cul-de-sac) offered to take me home one day, I thought my parents were trying to trick me, trying to see how well I would listen to what they said and I refused.

There is risk everywhere. If it's not an abduction attempt, it's a friend's dad, your own dad, a teacher...somebody could be inappropriate.

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip>

But it's not logical to point to one case or a few isolated cases (there are about a couple hundred classic abductions/murders of children per year) and and determine that for rest of the 25 millions kids in the country, it's not worth it.

Listen, I get it. There is nothing worse to me than a child being raped and murdered by a kidnapper. So even though the risk is vastly overinflated by our national paranoia, my reasoning for not allowing free outside play without me being present is based on the absolute horror of that very rare possibility. So call me a hypocrite but based on the stats, I'm not sure the risk is at all close to meriting the incredible loss of freedom.

<modsnip> let's not ever let our kids swim in the sea because once in a blue moon, a child is eaten by a shark. More often, they drown. So is the freedom to swim worth it? The parents of those who drowned would say no. (And don't get me started on sharks)

How about allowing a child to ride a bike? More kids die while riding a bicycle each year than are abducted and murdered. Should we stop that? Is it worth it to the parents of the kids who got hit by a car?

Or allowing them to ride in a car. Or how about allowing them to sleep? over 2000 kids die each year from SIDS. Should kids not be allowed to sleep now?

I'll repeat, I am a hypocrite but at least I question my own logic and the entire, new approach of bubble wrapping baby. We are paranoid parents in this day and age. I don't how good that is:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rhiana-maidenberg/baby-proofing_b_1097673.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/how-to-land-your-kid-in-therapy/308555/

The media have parents scared stiff, says Dan McGinn, who runs focus groups. Some parents won't let their kids out of their sight.
"When they talk about their kids and the risk of kidnapping, the numbers become irrelevant. It doesn't matter if it's 100 kids in the United States or 10,000. They really believe 'it's my child and I could minimize that risk,'" McGinn told us.
During a focus group McGinn assembled for "20/20," parents said things like, "I won't let [my son] go to the restroom by himself" and "I do not let [my kids] go out by themselves in the yard, not even the front yard."
All this worry can't be good for our kids. One child told me, "Anyone could just grab me at any time. A lot more kids are getting kidnapped."
But more kids are not getting kidnapped.
Ernie Allen [president of National Center for Missing and Exploited Children] concedes the point. "The numbers of non-family abductions have been remarkably constant over the years."

http://www.creators.com/opinion/john-stossel/the-kidnapping-hysteria.html

The bottom line is Alanna got to play outside. Something horrific happened to HER. Not to the rest of the portion of the 25 million American children who are allowed to play. Sweet Alanna's death strikes terror in all of our hearts. And grief. But is the answer to her horrible death less freedom for children? Is that logical? Is it logical to berate her folks for letting her play?

 

[x_files]

Those days are gone because empty lots do not exist, for one thing.

People where I live have cabins. We would go at young ages, such as 8 and be gone all day on the water, building rafts, whatever.

I look at that now and think how lucky I was that nothing happened. But of course, it happened to other children , and that is how parents learned that life jackets are a good idea.

It is only through luck that lots of us survived. When I think of the incredbily dangerous and stupid things I did, I was not saved by my intelligence. It was luck because other kids became dead or paralyzed from diving into the rocks, for instance.

Things are different nowadays and it is sad. Cars have made this a different world.

Nowadays if one wants children, rather than the "whatever" approach, it is going to involve dilgence and sacrifice on the parent's part. Saving for higher ed, spending time with your kids, putting your needs aside and taking them places to play if you have no yard, inviting friends over for them and watching them.

Kids want your time. Think of the best times with your parents. It was their time you valued. Cooking with you, bringing you to the beach, having weinie roasts, playing catch, going fishing, and?

I was raised in the 70's and even back then I was not allowed to wander or play outside alone. I had conservative 50's parents. I was given more leeway at age 10-12 though.
After watching the news I would not allow a small child to be alone even in a fenced, locked yard without a responsible adult or sitter.
It's unfortunate because kids should be allowed to have safety and some freedom. Criminals have stolen that away from children and parents.

 

[ArianeEmory]

It does us no good to judge their parenting now. Their daughter is gone.

I strongly agree.

 

[lishac23]

I've been following along as much as I could (busy work week) but I haven't seen any confirmation or a solid statement that says she was left at that location (as opposed to falling off a truck or something...) has it been confirmed?

 

[kkdj]

I do not answer my door ever unless im expecting someone. Even then, I look to see who it is.

I am armed. Very armed. I have a loaded gun ALWAYS on me. (I have a CCP and nice arsenal at my house....as I love to shoot and like to be safe lol).

I have a sticker on my FRONT/BACK door that says HOMEOWNER ARMED. I had a cop friend give it to me. If one thinks they have the possibility of being shot to death, they will generally avoid attempting to enter. However.....if someone knocks, I dont answer and they attempt to enter somehow, they will have a gun in their face.

I tell everyone I know (and all LE I personally know say this) never open a door to a stranger. If someone attempts to gain entrance - either use a weapon or call 911. It is not worth your life to voluntarily open the door to someone who may want to harm you!

I hear ya!
I was just commenting the latest in our area.
I personally am not worried tho. I have dogs, security cameras, alarm system and guns.
they dont want to come in my house!!! Lol!

 

[GingerzMomma]

I felt pretty sheltered as a child. When I was under 8, we could only play in the cul-de-sac with permission. Over 8, we couldn't cross the "big road" which had a 35mph speed limit. We were only allowed to go to one friend's house a block away and play on the side street.

Compared with other kids my age, I couldn't do anything. We even had a fenced backyard with little locks on the gates. I couldn't walk to the store (it was a mile away and across the "big road").

However, at 6, I too was approached walking home three blocks from school on a major street. I remember his face and his long hair and a big tan car (maybe your guy's son gitana!). I ran as fast as my legs would carry me after he offered me candy for a ride. Days after, when a neighbor (a mom from the cul-de-sac) offered to take me home one day, I thought my parents were trying to trick me, trying to see how well I would listen to what they said and I refused.

There is risk everywhere. If it's not an abduction attempt, it's a friend's dad, your own dad, a teacher...somebody could be inappropriate.

Yeah there is: have you heard about the principal in Arlington who got busted in FL yesterday and the gym coach in Plano? You can't even send a kid to school anymore. These are the people they are SUPPOSED to be able to trust and go to if there is trouble.

Do I not send them to school now, either? (yes, home schooling has seriously crossed my mind)

 

[blue22]

The bottom line is Alanna got to play outside. Something horrific happened to HER. Not to the rest of the portion of the 25 million American children who are allowed to play. Sweet Alanna's death strikes terror in all of our hearts. And grief. But is the answer to her horrible death less freedom for children? Is that logical? Is it logical to berate her folks for letting her play?

I don't see anyone berating them here. I certainly don't intend to. I think the bottom line for me...is there is letting them play...and there is letting them leave the house and have no idea where they are for many hours. Not even knowing she didn't make it to the house or not. Not knowing how long she had been missing. There IS a difference, and it's a very important, and very tragic one.

It is NOT logical to not let children play. It's also NOT logical, to have absolutely no idea where your 6 year old is. I don't think the answer is less freedom. I think the answer is MORE common sense.

To be clear, I'm not judging them. I wouldn't want to be in their position, and I don't wish any child to be taken. I am questioning reasoning, behaviors, and decisions. Questions, are not always judgements.

 

[21merc7]

I've been following along as much as I could (busy work week) but I haven't seen any confirmation or a solid statement that says she was left at that location (as opposed to falling off a truck or something...) has it been confirmed?

We have no new information, so, no, we do not know.

 

[human]

Me too, me too, me too! As always Gitana1 you and I see things the same way. I'm able to do the math and I try to make decisions about what my kids do based on logic, and statistcs, not headlines.

And yet, last spring, the first time the VERY first time I let my two boys walk together to the library and candy store on the old town square (blocks away) a man in a truck pulled over and offered them a ride. They refused and he told them "good! You shouldn't ride with strangers!" And drove away. But, for heaven's sake, it made me angry that two tween boys couldn't walk three blocks to the library together… with a phone… without a creep stopping them.

I want to give them that kind of freedom. The oldest will be 13 next month. But this one incident scared me.

I have a six year old daughter, and she would not have been outside that long without checking in with me. Even in the 70's when I was a kid, I had to call my mom when I arrived at friends' homes in the neighborhood. She needed to know where I was. If I forgot to call when I got there, she made me come home.

Yet, I remember playing in the ditches and creeks just like you, and it was wonderful, right behind my friend's house, for hours on end, catching tadpoles, and going through the tunnels. Just like you described.

And, like you I had an experience the summer I was 14 that is probably why I'm here at Websleuths my classmate Danielle was raped and murdered just blocks from my house. I still have all the clippings right here on my shelf, tucked in my yearbook. It was the summer between Jr. High and highschool. It changed everything for me.

http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/1990/01/01/technology_Vs_trimboli.aspx

A very long read, but very interesting. What a nightmare!

Here is something to keep in mind from the article

One of the first things the FBI profilers determine is whether the crime is organized or disorganized. The scene of an organized crime is almost neat, with very tittle evidence left behind. There are signs of premeditation beyond the obvious fact that a weapon is brought to the scene. A disorganized killer usually makes use of a weapon at the scene and leaves a lot of evidence. The offender often makes an attempt to hide the crime. "That tells you a lot about motivation," Wright says. But few crimes fit completely into one category or the other.
After examining the evidence, the analyst tries to reconstruct the crime. "Then we try to come up with an explanation for why everything happened the way it did," Wright says. Finally, they construct a behavioral description of the offender in layman’s terms.
The final report can include from twenty to forty characteristics, which may describe everything from the criminal’s race, age, military service, socioeconomic level, possible physical abnormalities, relationships with the opposite sex, rearing environment, current environment, and work record. Some of the profile is assembled through statistics: for example, homicides of blacks are usually committed by blacks, and whites by whites. "And we know certain types of individuals start killing at a certain age range." Wright says. Other information is based on the agents* experience with similar crimes.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Well, they could be looking for both, right? Maybe they saw the dark SUV on surveillance near Alanna's home and want to find out who it is and maybe someone also saw a red truck near the place her body was left. I mean they have to check everything out.



I bet it is but they sure wouldn't want the perp to know that.



No they didn;t get me. It was an attempt. Read below:



It's okay. It was 40 years ago! I was scared but I;m sure it was way worse for my mom.

After my mom watched me go up the drive, I must have knocked but no one answered. Huge Mormon family with 7 girls who lived on the corner. I loved to play with them! What I remember is stubbornly sitting on the porch in front of the door, waiting. It seemed like forever. In the meantime, my mom had gone inside our house which was five doors down. She was doing laundry.

After a while, I gave up and walked back down the walkway to the sidewalk. I started to walk up the street and up came a man in a tan and brownish station wagon. He slowed and pulled into the drive of the house next door to the Jones' house (where I was) and blocked me from walking past him on the sidewalk. He just stared. I remember he had glasses, kind of balding and in retrospect was probably in his fifties. He said nothing, just blocked me from walking past (I was not allowed in the street so I couldn't walk around) and just stared, not saying anything.

Then he backed up and I walked past, and he reversed on the street and backed up pacing me. He then blocked me in the next drive. Again, just staring not saying anything. I knew it wasn't right and I felt scared. After a moment he backed up again and again backed his station wagon down the street in reverse, pacing me. As I walked toward my house he held up an empty jar (seriously) and said, "Hey, I have some candy. Get in my car and I'll give you some."

The whole way he acted, the empty jar, it was "off" even to me at 4. The sad thing is had he acted sweetly or actually had candy, I might have gone right up to him. As it was, I kind of froze, not knowing what to do, just stood there.

In the meantime, my mom was yards away in the laundry room when suddenly, for no reason that makes sense, her heart froze and she just gasped, "Anna!", dropped what she was doing and began to run for the front door. No joke. She ran outside and saw me standing there between the houses, with some man trying to talk to me. She screamed, "Anna! Get in the house!"

Next thing I knew, I was yanked into the house and shoved in front of the t.v.. "Stay there!" She then took off, leaving me totally alone and jumped in her little v.w. bug and chased that guy! She followed him, speeding around, for miles. Got his license but couldn't catch him.

I guess she finally gave up and she called the police. The next thing I remember was eating a popsicle on the counter at the police station. They apparently found and brought the man in. He had a prior record for molesting a little girl or girls. He lied and said he wasn't trying to get me into his car. He said he just asked me to lift my skirt.

I guess in California in the 70's, asking a little girl to lift her skirt was okay, because he was not charged with anything and was allowed to leave with a warning! I think he wasn't about to get caught again and had he got me into his car I don't think anyone would have ever seen me again. At least not alive.

What's interesting about the whole thing to me, (besides my mom in the laundry room suddenly gasping my name - we are VERY close BTW and always have been), is that after a little while, my mom must have let me roam the neighborhood alone again because I lived my whole childhood outside roaming around!

And at age 11, I encountered another perv! Two friends and I were approached by some weirdo looking for his "lost dog"!!! But we knew better and just ran like hell!

And you know to think of it, one of my beautiful brothers was also approached when he was 11, on a quiet street in our neighborhood by a couple (man and woman) in a van. But I can't remember the details. I just know he came home running and crying.

Dang! Santa Ana/Tustin in the 70's. WTH? Maybe that's why I have this deep fear of these kinds of cases. Little Laura Bradbury also went missing when I was a teen and she went to my cousin's preschool in Costa Mesa. Her disappearance impacted me greatly. I carried a tiny photo of her from the newspaper in a little jewelry box for two decades.



I heard the very same thing. "Hey mom, there's a big tarp in the road!" "Well why don't you guys pick it up." That's what she interviewed, IIRC.

I just came in for a break and read this. Had to stop eating my sandwich.

THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing that story.

I would LOVE to get the police report from this incident. Find out where this guy is living right now.

You're mom is amazing but then you already know that. You and she have that 'connection' that I think is cellular.


Sadly this is a common story. I'm so thankful you are fine!

 

[human]

I was raised in the 70's and even back then I was not allowed to wander or play outside alone. I had conservative 50's parents. I was given more leeway at age 10-12 though.
After watching the news I would not allow a small child to be alone even in a fenced, locked yard without a responsible adult or sitter.
It's unfortunate because kids should be allowed to have safety and some freedom. Criminals have stolen that away from children and parents.

It isn't just about being kidnapped. It is the fact that they are children and do not have good sense about things.

My friend left her daughter ( the daughter received all kinds of awards and has two Master's Degrees) when the child was around age 8. Mom went to the store which was three blocks away.

When mom got home a short while later, her daughter was upside down stuck in the bannister of the stairs going to the second floor.

She was doing tricks and got stuck. What would have happened if she was upside down for hours is unknown, but it would not have been good.

Kids do stupid things because they are kids. That is why they have parents. Otherwise, they could be like sharks when the mother leaves shortly after birth

As a retired teacher, I am impressed with all of he coaches and teachers that are found to be perverts. But then again, it is a good idea to go looking for kids where they are. One probably won't find many opportunities for children at a stock broker's office , for instance.

I think all of the safety laws and information out there have helped to inform people to make decisions on what are better ideas.

 

[lisser]

I've been following along as much as I could (busy work week) but I haven't seen any confirmation or a solid statement that says she was left at that location (as opposed to falling off a truck or something...) has it been confirmed?

I haven't read back through the threads, so I've been wondering the same thing too, whether she fell out of the back of a truck.

Poor baby.

 

[skibaboo]

I've been following along as much as I could (busy work week) but I haven't seen any confirmation or a solid statement that says she was left at that location (as opposed to falling off a truck or something...) has it been confirmed?

No, nothing has been confirmed. We are purely still speculating/theorizing.

 

[IBsleuthin]

To me, a child who has left the home at 4 PM and people start looking for her at 6 is unusual. She just turned 6.

To me, that is really really young. Just out of kindergarten.

Then to still be looking for her at 8 and at 9 is unusual as well.

4 hours and your child has not been seen is rather a long time.

The child could have fallen and been unconscious. Of course, the reality was much worse.

How many homes would the parents check and then know there is a problem? When I used to live in town, there were about three or four homes where my child could conceivably be. After that, there were no possiblities. Any other home where she might be would not be acceptable. And that was years ago.

I will preface this by disclosing that I have fairly severe PTSD. (Long story, wait for the movie)...


The reason I share this is that I do tend to over-react strongly to the perception of threat and I know I am over protective.

My sons are in their late teens and are very large, strong tall boys for their age but I'm telling you what if I send them to the post office or the store or out with the dog I know nearly to the minute how long this should take and if too much time goes by they get a text from me.

(And they had better answer it).



Parenting styles differ, experiences differ and I realize not everyone is on red alert like I am all the time but I CANNOT IMAGINE my 6 year old being missing from my sight for this long. I'd freak out.

I'd have the whole neighborhood turned upside down.


Whatever happened here I can't point a finger <modsnip>.

 

[lishac23]

A very long read, but very interesting. What a nightmare!

Here is something to keep in mind from the article

One of the first things the FBI profilers determine is whether the crime is organized or disorganized. The scene of an organized crime is almost neat, with very tittle evidence left behind. There are signs of premeditation beyond the obvious fact that a weapon is brought to the scene. A disorganized killer usually makes use of a weapon at the scene and leaves a lot of evidence. The offender often makes an attempt to hide the crime. "That tells you a lot about motivation," Wright says. But few crimes fit completely into one category or the other.
After examining the evidence, the analyst tries to reconstruct the crime. "Then we try to come up with an explanation for why everything happened the way it did," Wright says. Finally, they construct a behavioral description of the offender in layman’s terms.
The final report can include from twenty to forty characteristics, which may describe everything from the criminal’s race, age, military service, socioeconomic level, possible physical abnormalities, relationships with the opposite sex, rearing environment, current environment, and work record. Some of the profile is assembled through statistics: for example, homicides of blacks are usually committed by blacks, and whites by whites. "And we know certain types of individuals start killing at a certain age range." Wright says. Other information is based on the agents* experience with similar crimes.

I've taken classes/seminars and how to do this in my career pursuits and they're typically very general and an "educated" guess. In the cases I've observed they are pretty vague and fit into the "could be a number of people" category. Plus its hard to factor in sociopaths (who have a great ability to create a facade and/or mimic "normal" behavior). With that being said I have seen it work when used in smaller suspect pools, with cases of multiple crimes, and in interrogation techniques.

 

[lishac23]

No, nothing has been confirmed. We are purely still speculating/theorizing.

I was hoping they would have. It says a lot if she was placed there as opposed to unintentionally.

 

[SCHMAE]

This just made me think of something. I was just telling my mom that we're constantly getting solicitors in this neighborhood (same neighborhood where Alanna was found). I moved here from a small town so maybe it's normal, but there are up to 5 a day and never less than one, except for on Sunday.

Interesting ! You know twice in the past month to 6 weeks I've had a vacuum solicitor out . I live not too far from Saginaw and far more rural and I always wonder why the heck they even come out this far where the homes are spread. It was the same company, KIRBY, of course but they were in a dark SUV. I'm pretty sure it was a suburban type but now I'm wondering about those 2 black vans. ( are those rumor ? )

 

[IBsleuthin]

And when you leave to the grocery for 15 minutes and come back and the kids are standing in the kitchen SILENT with that 'look' on your face....



Kids do STUPID things.



~Like 'accidentally pour Sprite in the top of your computer monitor, (long ago) because it looked like a plant waterer? Never did get the real story on that one.

Or Take a SCISSORS to your brand new 'indestructible' keyboard from Radio Shack to PROVE TO RADIO SHACK that it's not really indestructible.

Or use your hog shavers to shave a completely bare stripe 2 1/2 " wide down the middle of their head because someone pulled up to visit and your attention was momentarily diverted from shaving the dog.

I could write a book.

 

[GingerzMomma]

I guess I'm still not sure why everyone thinks they didn't have any idea where their child was or that they let her be gone too long?

1. she was going to a specific friends house, i.e. they knew where she was; should they have had her call or called to make sure she made it, or taken her, or had older sibling escort her?.....maybe.......hindsight is always 20/20

2. IIRC, per LDhummingbird, mom & older sis were looking for her by 6 o'clock; so, she would have been at her friend's house about 2 to 2 1/2 hours......how long is too long for a 6 year old to be at her friend's house on a summer day?