TX - Botham Shem Jean, 26, killed when police officer entered his apartment, Dallas, Sept 2018 #3

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #81
  • #82
I have no idea but I am 100% positive a resident there posted a video on Facebook showing him being carried out on a gurney. They are shown with one EMT pumping his chest as they wheel him out and around the corner. It also included AG outside his place after shooting the abandoned decedent talking on the phone for a very long time until the DPD and EMT's arrived.

The facebbook live vid is interesting and I wish she had cleaned the lens, oriented it horizontally, zoomed out maybe, and talked less because she said a few really dumb things.

Nice would have been for her to ask about the level or city lights at night and see if the tour guide gal would have demonstrated IF those doors actually can be left ajar if you try, as opposed to letting it swing a few to several inches. I mean ease the door gently up to the casing and latch mechanism and see if it will stay or close anyhow.

Kudos to her for pounding the pavement and being personable enough to get a tour. Looks like he bled out and AG should have tended to him to stop his bleeding.

Thank you DisturbedConcerned,
I am wondering why it appears that EMT brought Botham on the stretcher down the stairs instead of using the elevator.
 
Last edited:
  • #83
Write the story of an average citizen, perhaps a female attorney who has a concealed-carry permit after being a crime victim, entering an apartment she thinks is her own to find the door ajar and an apparent intruder in the dark that she shoots dead. It is a tragic mistake with serious legal consequences, but there are no protests or cries of racism and probably not front-page news for more than a day.

Add a uniform and the fuse is lit.

Perhaps no one is thinking that when off-duty Dallas police officer Amber Guyger encountered resident Botham Jean in his own apartment, killing him with her duty weapon, that it is anything other than an officer-involved shooting, but a discussion on where the lines are drawn is worth having.

Guyger was clearly off duty, although the long-held tradition (or law or policy) holds that there is no such thing as truly “off duty.” Certainly she was in uniform, but other professions wear uniforms and many cops do not. She had a gun, but so do many civilians. She reportedly gave authoritative commands and took immediate action, but a lot of civilians are ex-military or have had some training in dealing with tense confrontations. She shot a black man, but lots of races and genders die by accident or murder at the hands of all kinds of races and genders.

Although no one knows where this case will go – and it will go for years after most people stop paying attention – we can be certain that the Dallas police department will hold Guyger accountable internally and criminally, while distancing her from their responsibility civilly.

It is in the civil arena that police agencies and their governing bodies claim that an officer’s off-duty conduct was so disconnected from their official responsibilities that the liability should be shouldered only by the officer. Lawsuit questions will be centered on whether the officer was acting under color of law or within the scope of their duties. Although it may be likely that the City of Dallas will be writing a substantial check with no civil trial, there are cases where even an on-duty officer’s actions were so out-of-bounds that the employing agency bore no liability for their egregious conduct.
Is Amber Guyger's shooting an OIS?
 
  • #84
The videos of Mr. Jean, leading church services are just amazing. Many are on Twitter, and well worth watching.

The world lost a very bright star.
 
  • #85
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
An interesting report but...................
She wasn't working when she killed him.
A lot of people are fatigued when they get off work.
 
  • #86
  • #87
In a profession that requires so much precision, so much attention to detail, so much cognitive reasoning - how does one turn all of that off so quickly? How do you go from a day of patrolling Dallas streets to not even being aware of surroundings that you’re in each day?Armed or unarmed - off duty or on the clock, is running down the hall for help not an option when confronted by a “burglar?” Guyger managed to patrol the streets, make arrests and face the ills of being a police officer all day. But when she got home to a place with overall good security – she had to shoot her way out (or in) to an apartment that wasn’t her own.

“Upon the door being opened, Guyger observed that the apartment interior was nearly completely dark…”

Many downtown apartment homes have light switches near the front door. Walking into a dark apartment, late at night is not the most comforting feeling for any of us. To combat this issue, some people leave a light on when they know their schedule will cause them to arrive after dark.

At what point did Guyger realize that she was not in her apartment? Was it the fire from the gunshot that sparked a flicker of light onto unfamiliar furniture? Or was it during her administering of CPR in a dark room that she realized the decor? Maybe it wasn’t until she turned on the lights, called 911 and ran out to the hallway to confirm the apartment number.
Officer Gets a New Narrative Days After Shooting
 
  • #88
Did you see the link to the facebook live 20 minute walk thru video, posted today by Thora J, where there seem to be folks saying AG was "pissy drunk"?

An interesting report but...................
She wasn't working when she killed him.
A lot of people are fatigued when they get off work.
 
  • #89
I have no idea but I am 100% positive a resident there posted a video on Facebook showing him being carried out on a gurney. They are shown with one EMT pumping his chest as they wheel him out and around the corner. It also included AG outside his place after shooting the abandoned decedent talking on the phone for a very long time until the DPD and EMT's arrived.

The facebbook live vid is interesting and I wish she had cleaned the lens, oriented it horizontally, zoomed out maybe, and talked less because she said a few really dumb things.

Nice would have been for her to ask about the level or city lights at night and see if the tour guide gal would have demonstrated IF those doors actually can be left ajar if you try, as opposed to letting it swing a few to several inches. I mean ease the door gently up to the casing and latch mechanism and see if it will stay or close anyhow.

Kudos to her for pounding the pavement and being personable enough to get a tour. Looks like he bled out and AG should have tended to him to stop his bleeding.


Yes, I posted it here earlier in an earlier thread. Not sure if it was #1 or #2.
 
  • #90
  • #91
I have no idea but I am 100% positive a resident there posted a video on Facebook showing him being carried out on a gurney. They are shown with one EMT pumping his chest as they wheel him out and around the corner. It also included AG outside his place after shooting the abandoned decedent talking on the phone for a very long time until the DPD and EMT's arrived.

The facebbook live vid is interesting and I wish she had cleaned the lens, oriented it horizontally, zoomed out maybe, and talked less because she said a few really dumb things.

Nice would have been for her to ask about the level or city lights at night and see if the tour guide gal would have demonstrated IF those doors actually can be left ajar if you try, as opposed to letting it swing a few to several inches. I mean ease the door gently up to the casing and latch mechanism and see if it will stay or close anyhow.

Kudos to her for pounding the pavement and being personable enough to get a tour. Looks like he bled out and AG should have tended to him to stop his bleeding.
Due to the fact that it was in the morning right after the killing, she did not know about the red doormat, the automatic closing of the doors.
Yes EMT performed CPR on the gurney, but the video is not that long and it does not show the destination of an elevator or stairwell.
 
  • #92
  • #93
Yes, I posted it here earlier in an earlier thread. Not sure if it was #1 or #2.
The video short video of Botham on the stretcher and Guyger pacing back and forth on her cellphone . Both videos were were recorded by one Facebook member. Since then, it has been posted here several times.
 
  • #94
On Omar Narvaez FB (Dallas City Councilman) account, he copied and pasted the updates from the Asst. City Manager related to the shooting beginning on Sept 7. Omar Narvaez
 
  • #95
The full length of that video is around 7 minutes and what is all over the place is a snip from it.

From the looks of the incredibly long trail of blood for the route they took down 4 flights of stairs on what the resident said was the longest possible route, the CPR was pumping what blood he had left out of him.

The video short video of Botham on the stretcher and Guyger pacing back and forth on her cellphone . Both videos were were recorded by one Facebook member. Since then, it has been posted here several times.
 
  • #96
The video short video of Botham on the stretcher and Guyger pacing back and forth on her cellphone . Both videos were were recorded by one Facebook member. Since then, it has been posted here several times.

Yes, I know. I was just stating that i am pretty sure I originally posted it here, way back when. It was thread #1. Not a big deal, thanks for your info.
 
  • #97
jumping in and need to get caught up...forgive if I am just stating the obvious.

so..

I am in my apartment...some one enters in a police uniform and demands I stand down.

what am I going to do?

Im going to stand down, Im going to ask..who are you? I am going to say something, like why are you in my apartment.?..I am going to respond..


okay so now I am the cop , I am inside what I think is my apartment..someone is inside..
what will I do?

go back out to the hallway, call for back up. I am NOT going to venture further inside and confront a possible burglary or SO by myself at night.

there was also no reason to shoot to kill.

I DO NOT believe one word of this con artist, that starts with her parking her car on the wrong floor.

I think a relationship will be revealed. MOO
 
  • #98
Yes, I know. I was just stating that i am pretty sure I originally posted it here, way back when. It was thread #1. Not a big deal, thanks for your info.
I wish that in those posts of the videos, it would show the video of them going to the stairway. Thank you so very much Scarlettbones.
 
  • #99
Nobody should mistake this for a police officer using deadly force against a suspect while on the job. That is an entirely different thing.

She had no right to be in his apartment, she had no right to "give him commands", she had no right to draw her weapon and fire.

Conversely it was Mr. Jean that had those rights. Someone illegally entered his apartment.

We as a society give a lot of leeway to LE who kill while on the job. That is not the case here. She wasn't on a call, worried about reports of an armed suspect.

IMO, Her fear should absolutely not be considered a defense.
 
  • #100
Nobody should mistake this for a police officer using deadly force against a suspect while on the job. That is an entirely different thing.

She had no right to be in his apartment, she had no right to "give him commands", she had no right to draw her weapon and fire.

Conversely it was Mr. Jean that had those rights. Someone illegally entered his apartment.

We as a society give a lot of leeway to LE who kill while on the job. That is not the case here. She wasn't on a call, worried about reports of an armed suspect.

IMO, Her fear should absolutely not be considered a defense.
Best post on this topic.
Thanks for simplifying and clarifying. This is what it distills down too.
Ignore all the posturing and noise. It means zip. She murdered a man and had absolutely no business invading his home or the threshold of his home, and issuing commands.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
106
Guests online
2,463
Total visitors
2,569

Forum statistics

Threads
632,815
Messages
18,632,069
Members
243,304
Latest member
Corgimomma
Back
Top