TX - Botham Shem Jean, 26, killed when police officer entered wrong apartment, Dallas, Sept 2018

[kaen]

Rocco,

It is interesting. I grew up in a neighborhood filled with LEOs. I don't think any of my neighbors ever fired a weapon during their service and I lived in a suburb where most of the cops worked in the very near city-- during the 1968 riots even.

However, I will add that they ran the gamut of good upstanding guys (back in the day no women I knew were on the job) to wife/kid beaters with severe alcohol problems-- and every temperament in between. I think your point about how many incidents she has had versus the average cop is a great one.

I think more training is needed for officers in how to handle situations without escalation and drawing a weapon. I wonder what the stats from long ago to now are in terms of shooting incidents.

 

[MsFacetious]

This was an incredible statement by the mayor of Dallas:

"Botham Jean was exactly the sort of citizen we want to have in the city of Dallas," Rawlings told reporters during a press conference, ABC Newsreported. "And for that reason this is a terrible thing that has happened. Not only has he lost his life, but we've lost a potential leader for this city for decades to come." Dallas mayor on man shot by officer in his apartment: 'We've lost a potential leader for this city'

Rawlings also said:

"It's important that the citizens know that I believe what Chief Hall has done has been exactly the right thing. This is a tough situation," Rawlings said at a news conference at Paul Quinn College. "For anyone that questions whether we're going to get to the truth of this, there should be no doubters. We will find out exactly what happened." Dallas police officially identify officer who killed Botham Jean — but still haven't filed charges | Crime | Dallas News

I want to say this gives me hope... but I will reserve my hope until charges are actually filed. I know better and I'm still apprehensive until the proof is shown...

Salem Witches never shot a man in cold blood, killed in his own home.

If this officer was trained to respond with lethal force in this situation, then the training needs major review and revision. She never looked at the number on the door? Never recognized that the red floor mat was not hers?!

Absolutely this is all basic stuff... cops are trained to be observant, to notice little things.
These are little things that should have jumped out at her to cause her to re-evaluate. Door mat, number on door, key not working.

She didn’t “get in.” The tenant, Botham Jean, opened the door to his own apartment that she was trying to get into...and was shot. Her apartment was on the floor below.

Please read the thread and the articles. Then you will understand what we know so far.

Yes, the fact that she never got into his apartment is a very basic fact of this case. The victim opened the door because she was TRYING to get into his apartment.

Quite frankly that's the only mistake I see that he made. I wish he had not opened the door, had taken cover away from it and had called 911 to report a burglary in progress.

Of course, he just assumed it was a mistake or someone needing help I'm sure, so he opened the door.

The victim was the one with the right to stand his ground here.
HE was the one who had the right to self defense.
HE was the one up against someone armed with a LETHAL weapon.
HE was the one with zero history of aggression or shooting people.
Size is pretty irrelevant when the smaller person has a loaded weapon and is trigger happy.

 

[kaen]

Given what we know now (and, grant it, it is not a lot) I can't see a scenario where she would't get at least Man2.

 

[scarlettbones]

I didn't see this posted yet, apologies if it was and I missed it.



Video From Moments After Dallas Cop Amber Guyger Shot Botham Jean After Entering His Apartment| Video

 

[MsFacetious]

that's what they are banking on. find 11 more like you and she's back at home with her mother in her "all lives matter" tshirt.

Not going to happen. The jurors will hear the whole story.
They will understand basics like it wasn't even her apartment.

Killed in his own home, doing nothing wrong.
That's too personal. That's too random. Too nonsensical.
That could have been any one of those jurors or their loved one.
It's very different than the other shootings by cops we've seen.
There will be no justifying because of the victim's behavior.
This was simply murder.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I didn't see this posted yet, apologies if it was and I missed it.



Video From Moments After Dallas Cop Amber Guyger Shot Botham Jean After Entering His Apartment| Video

So disturbing...

 

[Jax49]

A quick look at the twitter messages to DPD indicates the community is furious that an arrest hasn't been made.
Dallas Police Dept on Twitter

Thanks for that link. They are furious and rightfully so, imho.

 

[scarlettbones]

Thanks for that link. They are furious and rightfully so, imho.

Wow, they are savage. DPD hasn't answered any of there questions yet. Waiting.

 

[Jax49]

Amber Guyger, police officer named in Dallas fatal shooting, shot a suspect in 2017: report

Dallas police Officer Amber Guyger, whom authorities say fatally shot a black man last week in an apartment she mistook for her own, was also involved in the shooting of a suspect in 2017, according to a report.

Whether Guyger will be charged with a crime in connection with Jean's death is the subject of a Texas Rangers investigation.

bbm

 

[Amonet]

One of the earlier articles said that neighbors, who I believe were on a different floor, heard shouting of "open up" that they described as being shouted in a way they associate with how police say that. They didn't say if it was a male or female voice they heard. It could have been the attending officers who they heard. We don't know yet.

One of the Heavy articles said that a neighbor who seems to have been a more direct same-floor neighbor didn't hear anything before the gun shot(s). If there was banging on the door or any kind of shouting prior to the gunshot(s) I am surprised she didn't hear anything. That seems to give credence, at the moment imho, to Guyger trying the key and then Mr Jean opening the door to find out why someone's trying a key in his door.

It seems to be completely unknown what transpired between the opening of the door and the shooting.

I would conjecture something like Mr Jean saying "what are you doing?" Guyger saying "I'm trying to get into my apartment; what are YOU doing in my apartment?" Mr Jean saying "This is my apartment...look at the door number". But this conjecture doesn't seem to lead to any cause for anyone to be shot. So the conjecture is obviously missing something important to what did happen.

Normally if something like this happened you would expect that it's the person attempting to enter the wrong apartment/home to be the one at greatest risk of being shot by the homeowner. And you also have the law in many places allowing for the fact that it's the homeowner's home and them being frightened of an intruder in their home.

This case seems like everything's turned on its head and it's so unfathomable how it could have escalated to a man's death. It's crazy.

Right now a manslaughter charge seems reasonable. But I also want those blanks filled in. I think we need to let them do their investigation and I hope that there will be a way for the information gathered to be released openly while not putting a trial at risk. Often they don't release too much information as they want to save it for trial, and that's a hard enough thing to deal with when it's not a police officer involved shooting and when it doesn't involve two people who have different skin color.

I also think we always should be careful when there are rumors flying around, but especially when the risks of believing a rumor that might be faulty are so fraught with so many dangers.

 

[Jax49]

Is there a pic available of her front door? Unless it has a red rug I'm having a hard time understanding how she could have thought it was her apartment.

 

[SandyQLS]

If she was using her key, keycard, or a keypad with her dominant hand to try to open the door, then her gun would have been holstered at that time. If the story is that he opened the door when he heard someone trying to enter, then she sought her gun at that moment, with her dominant hand, and she immediately fired.

I have a problem with the long amount of time between all these actions, plenty of time for her brain to engage while her dominant hand can only perform one action at a time. "My key didn't work so I pulled out my gun expecting to need to use deadly force" is unreasonable.

ETA: The CPR video at heavy.com also shows this is a very well-lit hallway.

 

[MsFacetious]

I am extremely ambidextrous and can use a key card easily with either hand. If she was as well then she could have been using her non dominant hand for that.

 

[Jennifer17]

I am extremely ambidextrous and can use a key card easily with either hand. If she was as well then she could have been using her non dominant hand for that.

Most people are not though and I bet she had her trusty gun in her dominant hand.

 

[Rocco]

Is there a pic available of her front door? Unless it has a red rug I'm having a hard time understanding how she could have thought it was her apartment.

I don't have a pic of her door but here's his:

 

[Betty P]

RSBM
It seems that there are some who are reporting that she was yelling for him to "Open up." If that is the case, he might not have stopped to put on pants. One of the things that we have continually heard as to why people are shot is that they did not follow orders immediately and succinctly. In this day and age, if I heard yelling at my door that sounded like a police officer, I would also not put on clothes but go immediately for fear of them breaking in the door and killing me. There have been enough serving warrants at the wrong address and injuries/death with police departments saying that they served the wrong address but the people didn't comply.

There's something wrong with our society when average citizens have to live in fear of such stupid mistakes by police. No good answers for protecting yourself from an ignorant law officer with a gun.

 

[mickey2942]

I may not be using Twitter correctly, I just checked the Dallas police twitter, and it looks like things have been deleted and cleaned up.

 

[Jax49]

I may not be using Twitter correctly, I just checked the Dallas police twitter, and it looks like things have been deleted and cleaned up.

I'm still seeing a lot of "what the f***" are you doing covering up for a murderer.

ETA: Plus the many versions of "you spelled incident wrong; it should be spelled m u r d e r".

 

[cybervampira]

I can give her the benefit of the doubt for now assuming she wasn‘t intoxicated and had no prior history with the victim until proven otherwise. But let’s assume she
- just didn’t put two and two together when her key didn‘t fit
- she didn‘t check the apartment number
- she didn’t notice the red doormat

In Germany, we have a saying ”Dummheit schützt vor Strafe nicht” which means as much as ”You can‘t use stupidity as a defense“.

Even if she felt an intruder was in her home, you just shouldn’t be shooting an unarmed man in his underwear being a trained cop. It‘s not like he was breaking in wielding a gun and she had no other option.

She made a stupid mistake and on top of that, she made a bad choice.

 

[mickey2942]

By all accounts, Mr. Shem seemed like a model person.

1. Attended college
2. Worked for a respected company
3. Sang at his church, was actively involved in his church community.

There are no reports of police involvement, criminal activity. So, I would find it difficult to believe that he was a violent man who threatened this police officer, if that becomes her "defense" for using lethal force.