TX - Elizabeth Barraza, 29, murdered setting up garage sale, Harris Co, Jan 2019 #4

[Ozoner]

Crime analysts talk about 'disorganized' and 'organized' killers.

We don't have video of the murder of Mo Wilson, but her killer allegedly was waiting for her to be dropped off by the killer's boyfriend, ie was reacting immediately, at the height of her jealousy, rather than going home to confront her boyfriend, or taking a yoga class, or going to stay with a friend or family, to allow herself to calm down.

She also took huge risks, doing it in broad daylight, running into the home to shoot MW, stealing the bike to throw it into the bushes to create a robbery scenario: yes, she amazingly got away with it at that point, but could so easily have been seen or even trapped, if the landlord rushed out at the noise, or the roommate arrived home, or a curious neighbour came past...

She used her own SUV, so police could easily find her, she told people how much she hated MW and wanted to kill her, as someone tipped off police about. She used her own gun, which she kept afterwards at home, etc.

So I think criminal psychologists would classify it as a very disorganized killing, which is why she was caught, in spite of her desperate effort to escape.

BBM

I disagree. I didn't follow that case closely, but the killer that you described in your post is a highly organized killer: she lay in wait and staged the scene. A disorganized killer would do neither of those things, IMO.

When you think of a disorganized killer, think of some guy on meth or in the middle of a psychotic episode who stabs somebody to death on an impulse and makes no effort to destroy evidence. He might walk home from the crime scene with the knife dripping blood all the way to his front door.

Nowadays, forensic science has advanced to the point where most disorganized killers are caught very, very quickly unless they get extremely lucky and don't happen to leave any forensic evidence despite making no effort to avoid leaving evidence.

 

[lonewanderer]

I agree, that was a case where a woman shot another woman whom she didn't know well.

Respectfully, however, IMO there's much more to a crime than weapon, gender and apparent motive.

Crime analysts talk about 'disorganized' and 'organized' killers.

We don't have video of the murder of Mo Wilson, but her killer allegedly was waiting for her to be dropped off by the killer's boyfriend, ie was reacting immediately, at the height of her jealousy, rather than going home to confront her boyfriend, or taking a yoga class, or going to stay with a friend or family, to allow herself to calm down.

She also took huge risks, doing it in broad daylight, running into the home to shoot MW, stealing the bike to throw it into the bushes to create a robbery scenario: yes, she amazingly got away with it at that point, but could so easily have been seen or even trapped, if the landlord rushed out at the noise, or the roommate arrived home, or a curious neighbour came past...

She used her own SUV, so police could easily find her, she told people how much she hated MW and wanted to kill her, as someone tipped off police about. She used her own gun, which she kept afterwards at home, etc.

So I think criminal psychologists would classify it as a very disorganized killing, which is why she was caught, in spite of her desperate effort to escape.

Whereas, this murder was almost textbook in being extremely organized. No effort was wasted in trying to create a false narrative (except possibly disguising as a female for the sake of the cameras). Every effort went towards concealing the person's identity and connection to the victim.

I think that speaks to a very different kind of motive than jealous rage, since someone in the grip of jealous rage is literally unable to calmly think and plan. It's a different part of the brain, that comes up with such a 'cold-blooded' plan.

JMO

You bring up some really good points.

It also reminds me that Liz's case has some major similarities to Missy Bevers. Both ambushed in the morning, possibly by their announcements on social media that implied they would be alone at an early hour in the morning.

Both cases have footage of the suspects, Missy's even more so. The person on the footage in the Missy Bevers case is wearing SWAT style gear. It conceals their identity, including their definitive gender, which has been a great source of debate.

Much like Liz, the perpetrator is an unknown gender in Missy's case, and I personally feel like the suspect was female in Liz's case and male in Missy's. However, I also feel like the idea for Missy's killer's outfit was under the instruction and imagination of a woman. Women are clever, thoughtful, detailed. May walk a certain way to throw off gender ID, use a disguise, throw things off with certain sophisticated details. I think it is likely that if the perpetrator was male, he would have made no attempt to pretend to be female, worn something simple like a bandana, sunglasses, hat and black hoodie.

In both Liz and Missy's case, I think the perp had motive and means, but was waiting for a golden opportunity. As I see Liz's case, I imagine a female that saw the opportunity to ambush Liz really early in the morning and possibly on short notice. From what we can see, it truly looks like a woman between 25-35 who basically rolled out of bed, put on her ugg style shoes and robe that would typically be for walking the dog, and just so happened to have the perfect reason to borrow someones car (perhaps a visting relative/friend). Returned the car, and that person drove home none the wiser. In Missy's I think they saw the opportunity for her to be setting up a fitness class very VERY early in the morning. Probably knowing she would be out of her element having to move things from the outside and into the inside, and possibly having her hands full of equipment as she entered the church. I think Missy's was much more prepared and thought out, with the prime oppurtunity to strike. I think Liz's was also well thought out, but much more impulsive and improvised.

I say all of that, to say this. Both Liz's and Missy's murders seem like a long-waited, planned event that took place at just the right time for the killer. To me, this may imply something personal and grudge like. A long awaited chance to extract their plot, at just the right time.

 

[lonewanderer]

Deleted for accidental double post

 

[helix527]

You bring up some really good points.

It also reminds me that Liz's case has some major similarities to Missy Bevers. Both ambushed in the morning, possibly by their announcements on social media that implied they would be alone at an early hour in the morning.

Both cases have footage of the suspects, Missy's even more so. The person on the footage in the Missy Bevers case is wearing SWAT style gear. It conceals their identity, including their definitive gender, which has been a great source of debate.

Much like Liz, the perpetrator is an unknown gender in Missy's case, and I personally feel like the suspect was female in Liz's case and male in Missy's. However, I also feel like the idea for Missy's killer's outfit was under the instruction and imagination of a woman. Women are clever, thoughtful, detailed. May walk a certain way to throw off gender ID, use a disguise, throw things off with certain sophisticated details. I think it is likely that if the perpetrator was male, he would have made no attempt to pretend to be female, worn something simple like a bandana, sunglasses, hat and black hoodie.

In both Liz and Missy's case, I think the perp had motive and means, but was waiting for a golden opportunity. As I see Liz's case, I imagine a female that saw the opportunity to ambush Liz really early in the morning and possibly on short notice. From what we can see, it truly looks like a woman between 25-35 who basically rolled out of bed, put on her ugg style shoes and robe that would typically be for walking the dog, and just so happened to have the perfect reason to borrow someones car (perhaps a visting relative/friend). Returned the car, and that person drove home none the wiser. In Missy's I think they saw the opportunity for her to be setting up a fitness class very VERY early in the morning. Probably knowing she would be out of her element having to move things from the outside and into the inside, and possibly having her hands full of equipment as she entered the church. I think Missy's was much more prepared and thought out, with the prime oppurtunity to strike. I think Liz's was also well thought out, but much more impulsive and improvised.

I say all of that, to say this. Both Liz's and Missy's murders seem like a long-waited, planned event that took place at just the right time for the killer. To me, this may imply something personal and grudge like. A long awaited chance to extract their plot, at just the right time.

Great comparison of the two cases, both of which I've followed closely. I can't help but feel the Barraza case is closer to being solved than the Missy Bevers case.

 

[Ozoner]

Great comparison of the two cases, both of which I've followed closely. I can't help but feel the Barraza case is closer to being solved than the Missy Bevers case.

For me, the similarities are superficial. I believe that Liz's murder was planned and committed by someone who knew her or knew of her, whereas I am convinced that Missy was murdered by a stranger who was not expecting anyone to enter the building as early as Missy did.

 

[ilovewings]

It’s frustrating because it seems so solvable. Plus it’s so wrong what happened, no one should ever get away from something like this.

What is stopping police? Identifying lines of communication used between responsible parties? I sure would love to know more about the Florida POI…did police just not have enough evidence against this person? Did this person have an alibi? Who was with this person in the truck? Police can’t find truck, and we don’t know if they ever fully researched the videos from other homes or businesses on the route.
Temporary tags on truck? No one knows where the truck is or who it belonged to? So the police just give up?

Sigh…I just really think this is solvable…

Somebody- the person who did this- is walking around feeling really good about themselves and laughing at the police- so far they have gotten away with this horrific crime--- and as I watch programs like See No Evil that catch killers with surveillance cameras tracking VEHICLES ALL THE TIME- I think about this case and get angry that it has not been solved. It is thru tracking vehicles thru CCTV cameras that they they catch a killer- and when they have a problem because the video is grainy or difficult to see they SEND THE VIDEO TO THE FBI to clean it up and get a clearer picture and guess what, it works a good deal of the time!

This case just sticks with me - like you, I believe it is solvable

 

[santacruztodd]

As frustrating as this case is, I would suggest to be mindful of the facts. This was not a random act because the killer or killers cased the neighborhood early in the morning before the murder. The killer chose a disguise that implies they knew about Liz‘s affinity for cosplay and Star Wars. The killer knew about the garage sale and the nature of the garage sale due to their choice of disguise. The killer either got very lucky or else they knew that Sergio would not be there which would have then required killing two people. Less factual, but equally important, is that the killing appeared to be personal in nature, and not simply an outright hit due to the conversation prior to the killing.

I think about the Dave Watson triple homicide in Arizona, where his ex-wife, mother-in-law and mother-in-law‘s friend were killed during a child custody battle. Dave’s wife lied for him, and even though the police knew he did it it took nearly 10 years to convict him. Only after his divorce did his wife come forward and admit that she lied about his whereabouts. It may very well be that law-enforcement knows who did this, but are unable to make an arrest due to any number of reasons.

Loyalties change with time, and I do hope that someone has the courage to come forward. If you take away the possibility of this being random, and if the financial motive has gone nowhere, it leaves us with this being a retaliatory act. The fact that we do not know motive doesn’t mean that there isn’t one-it just means that we haven’t found it yet and for all we know law-enforcement does know the motive yet lacks the circumstantial evidence necessary to make an arrest.

 

[arielilane]

She was well liked, and being well liked can lead to jealousy in some cases.

If she was getting special treatment from someone like a boss or a leader within the cosplay community, jealousy could have turned to hatred. There's an old saying: "A favorite has no friends."

If the killer was a vulnerable narcissist, which I suspect, then any perceived slight could have led to murder. If Liz had chosen not to pursue a friendship with someone, that could have been enough. If Liz had gotten a promotion that someone else wanted, that could have been enough. With a vulnerable narcissist, any reason is enough. The desire for revenge overrides everything. The sort of slight could have been something very recent or something that the killer could have been fuming about for years.

I really see this in so many facets of life. People, not all, but some are threatened for whatever reason of others’ successes and happiness. Not sure why, because there is plenty for all. No one is taking away from anyone, imo. We all have opportunities, imo.

Wonder if this was the case with Liz, that someone unbeknownst to Liz despised her deeply and sought revenge … of course all of it was made up in their ill mind and intensified due to their mental state. moo

 

[arielilane]

I got the feeling that the killer didn't care if he/she were apprehended after killing Liz Barraza, killer just wanted it done. I'm probably wrong, but seemed as if this killer is somewhat of an organized killer, but disorganized toward the end of the killing. moo

Obviously speculation on my part.

 

[lonewanderer]

For me, the similarities are superficial. I believe that Liz's murder was planned and committed by someone who knew her or knew of her, whereas I am convinced that Missy was murdered by a stranger who was not expecting anyone to enter the building as early as Missy did.

I really think if we had a tiny bit more footage, then that debate would be answered.

For instance, right before she was attacked. Was the SWAT person lying in wait? Going with the planner theory, looking through all the doors may have been looking for the room she was going to set up her workouts in, to ambush her.

Going with random stranger theory, if the SWAT person was obviously startled, made shocked reactions, and impulsively attacked her then this would be the correct theory.

For me, we just simply don’t know until we see more.

 

[lonewanderer]

I got the feeling that the killer didn't care if he/she were apprehended after killing Liz Barraza, killer just wanted it done. I'm probably wrong, but seemed as if this killer is somewhat of an organized killer, but disorganized toward the end of the killing. moo

Obviously speculation on my part.

Going back to Kaityln Armstrong.

The way she carried out the murder was mighty impulsive for the most part, but did have some aspects of planning and measures to detour her involvement.

She was arrested for a different (very minor) crime in order to discuss murdering Mo. She was arrogant and sneered at officers about it, and they had to be released because her birthday was not correct on the warrant

So basically, Kaitlyn also just wanted it done and didn’t seem to worried about consequences.

She then took a really long series of short flights to confuse investigators, got plastic surgery in South America somewhere, used her sisters passport (or forged it or something) and ultimately got turned in once she went to a super remote location. Problem is, in those places, people are tight knit, nosey, and notice new comers.

Anyways, I say all that to say this. It’s totally possible that Liz’s killer may have acted somewhat impulsively, like prepared, but waiting for the opportune time to strike, such as knowing Liz would be setting up a garage sale alone, and knowing Sergio would be gone.

After this, the shooter may have taken highly clever steps to not get caught. Maybe, maybe the opposite. Either ways, just things to think about.

 

[PawneeDew]

As frustrating as this case is, I would suggest to be mindful of the facts. This was not a random act because the killer or killers cased the neighborhood early in the morning before the murder. The killer chose a disguise that implies they knew about Liz‘s affinity for cosplay and Star Wars. The killer knew about the garage sale and the nature of the garage sale due to their choice of disguise. The killer either got very lucky or else they knew that Sergio would not be there which would have then required killing two people. Less factual, but equally important, is that the killing appeared to be personal in nature, and not simply an outright hit due to the conversation prior to the killing.

I think about the Dave Watson triple homicide in Arizona, where his ex-wife, mother-in-law and mother-in-law‘s friend were killed during a child custody battle. Dave’s wife lied for him, and even though the police knew he did it it took nearly 10 years to convict him. Only after his divorce did his wife come forward and admit that she lied about his whereabouts. It may very well be that law-enforcement knows who did this, but are unable to make an arrest due to any number of reasons.

Loyalties change with time, and I do hope that someone has the courage to come forward. If you take away the possibility of this being random, and if the financial motive has gone nowhere, it leaves us with this being a retaliatory act. The fact that we do not know motive doesn’t mean that there isn’t one-it just means that we haven’t found it yet and for all we know law-enforcement does know the motive yet lacks the circumstantial evidence necessary to make an arrest.

Thank you for the reminder. We're websleuths. We're better than this....lol. And, I agree with everything you posted.
100%
Everything comes to light. Nothing stays secret forever, imo. Well, maybe rarely...Just takes time.
Eta. What I mean is the truth always comes out. It might take some time; but, it will come out.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1618359483834540034

A nonprofit that helps solve & prevent crime in Houston & Harris County. DO NOT POST TIPS TO TWITTER, call 713-222-TIPS. This account is not monitored 24/7.

 

[arielilane]

"Femicide," isn't talked about much.

Was killer’s motive “femicide,” an individual rejected by Liz from her past, high school, college years? After awhile the killer no longer could take the rage which built up inside over years, resentment, enraged over being rejected, and could no longer escape rage and acted on it?

Speculation. moo.

 

[Duper's Delight]

Not an approved WS source so just a FYI for anyone interested​

A new interview with Liz's Father, Bob Nuelle is LINKED on the family's page under media: Links to Press and Media

It is the TUBI/CrimedoorTV one up at top of the family's page. Episode 43. Starts around 30-minute mark.

 

[Hexe]

Any time I see that someone thinks the perpetrator was a woman, I just shake my head. If that was a woman, it's the least feminine woman I have ever seen. The exaggerated feminine body, the masculine run, the pulling the wig back on as it starts to slip...it's a man.

If the wig is a cheap, low quality piece it will be slipping off the head, no matter the gender of the wearer. And this particular wig doesn't look very good. It's almost as if the perp prepared their disguise more with the low res bell cam in mind, than any potential witnesses.

 

[Ozoner]

What’s interesting is that I think there is footage of the shooting from two different angles. The original I saw- yes I initially thought it was a man. That angle sort of saw the shooter top view or from behind.

The footage from the other angle, where we have more of a view of the shooter from the right…is where they appear much more female to me.

Challenging to find the two videos that show the different angles as Seeing that footage is difficult.

This is from memory and a recent viewing.

I agree that it's most likely a woman. The mannerisms are more suggestive of a woman.

I suppose there's a remote possibility it could be a gay man. Maybe a gay man had designs on S, and Liz was in the way.

 

[lonewanderer]

If the wig is a cheap, low quality piece it will be slipping off the head, no matter the gender of the wearer. And this particular wig doesn't look very good. It's almost as if the perp prepared their disguise more with the low res bell cam in mind, than any potential witnesses.

I personally think there is a strong possibly it is simply just "nappy" hair.

The person on the footage looks to me like a suburban, middle class, woman who got out of bed on a chilly morning to walk her dog.

The soft boots, the robe, the messy hair.

I am not certain there is any disguise at all.

 

[Ozoner]

I personally think there is a strong possibly it is simply just "nappy" hair.

The person on the footage looks to me like a suburban, middle class, woman who got out of bed on a chilly morning to walk her dog.

The soft boots, the robe, the messy hair.

I am not certain there is any disguise at all.

I agree. I see no signs of a disguise. I see a Karen carrying out a personal vendetta.

 

[PawneeDew]

Not an approved WS source so just a FYI for anyone interested​

A new interview with Liz's Father, Bob Nuelle is LINKED on the family's page under media: Links to Press and Media

It is the TUBI/CrimedoorTV one up at top of the family's page. Episode 43. Starts around 30-minute mark.

View attachment 408476

Bob Nuelle repeatedly said "they". Also said cowards. As in more than one....That's certainly interesting wording.