TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #5

[Hraefn]

There is another young man testifying now. He lived at 1425 I believe they said. He saw a female uniformed police officer entering the apartment building with a bag. He heard the two gun shots.

 

[NervousNellie]

Joshua is testifying about how he had gone to the wrong floor in the apartment building a few times, and even put his key in the wrong apartment door before and then realized it was the wrong door.

That's pretty fascinating, to me! I have never doubted that Amber was at Botham's door by accident/mistake, but it's her excessive force following that mistake that turns into criminal behavior, IMHO.

 

[Hraefn]

He heard a female voice after the gunshots, saying something like 'there was someone in my apartment,' and that is all he can recall hearing after the shooting.

 

[ilovewings]

And, so much discussion around this case misses the entire point, in my book. Why does it matter if she was exchanging explicit texts or whatever with her partner beforehand? She made terrible decisions that night, which ended in the death of an innocent person, but isn't the key question here only this: Were her actions accidental or did she set out to murder Mr. Jean.

I think the key question is-- were her actions reasonable? There is no evidence she set out to murder Mr Jean but her actions resulted in his death---that is what the
Jury will have to consider-- for example all of those things she missed on the way to the wrong apt , including the bright red rug in front of Bo's apartment---was it reasonable of her to have shot who she thought was an intruder without taking some other actions first like calling for backup--and then there is the issue if she is telling the truth about events that evening, like alleging he was coming at her when in fact his body was closer to the couch

 

[gitana1]

And, so much discussion around this case misses the entire point, in my book. Why does it matter if she was exchanging explicit texts or whatever with her partner beforehand? She made terrible decisions that night, which ended in the death of an innocent person, but isn't the key question here only this: Were her actions accidental or did she set out to murder Mr. Jean.

No. Murder is a conclusion. It's not an element of itself. And in Texas the crime calls for someone to simply intend to AND know that they are killing someone.

Whether she intended to kill him is a question for one charge. But I think there's consensus that this is more likely a manslaughter and/or criminally negligent homicide case and both are lesser includeds which the jury will be instructed on. And also the defense has asserted the mistake of fact defense which renders the intent to kill element of murder, irrelevant, for lack of a better word.

That's why the state really made reasonableness a main feature of their opening statement.

That has to do with recklessess, negligence and whether mistake of fact is a viable defense to the murder charge.

In other words, we know she intended to shoot him and kill him. But was her mistake a reasonable one and thus a defense regardless of intent and/or was she reckless in the behavior that led her to discharge her gun on Jean, rendering mistake of fact invalid?

So lots of key questions. This is not a simple case.

 

[gitana1]

Once she was in the room, she set out to murder Mr. Jean.

Not murder. Kill. There's a difference. She didn't set out to illegally kill him, which is what murder would be.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Neighbor testifying management knocked on his door (and Botham's) early afternoon (day of shooting). They said it was a noise complaint, but neighbor says their was no noise.

ETA: He spoke with Botham and they thought it was really about them smoking weed.

From the get-go I have speculated this was always about the pot smell.
Further amateur opinion and speculation is that the now ex-officer was tired and grouchy and went to intimidate or “bust” her neighbor. I want a hair stand test for steroids. Rage.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Hraefn]

He noticed a white pick up truck driving in the parking lot on the 4th floor after he had parked (on Sept. 6). He noticed it was a uniformed female officer as she exited the vehicle. They went into different entrances. He saw she was carrying a bad. He didn't know of any police officer living on the 4th floor so he noticed her.

 

[wyome]

Gitana, your posts are always excellent! You definitely have that "lawerly" quality, in that you keep keep to logic and facts, separating out emotion, fallacy, etc.

I do quibble a bit with your last comment here, though: My impression of AG is that she was woefully out of her depth as a police officer, trained or not. She was coming off of about 40 hours of work in 4 days, seemingly engrossed in her "after hours life" (who wouldn't be after getting off that schedule!), and as such, and having lived in the building for less than two months (I believe), wasn't noticing much about her surroundings, except that they are seemed similar in general.

She comes upon the door, believing that someone is in her apartment and coming at her, and freaks out, shooting him. Everything immediately after is just shock. It reads to me less like lack of character and more like a person who is significantly unfit, no matter how highly trained, to be in her line of work, which requires functioning in the most extreme situations, despite emotions, etc.

Just my two cents.

Great post. Agree that everything immediately after is just shock...well put. I think some jurors will hold her lack of rendering aid against her character.

I do disagree that she was significantly unfit for her line of work. She is young, and in that line of work time and circumstances shape and sharpen you. She'll never get that time because of this grossly negligent incident.

 

[grammieto5]

And, so much discussion around this case misses the entire point, in my book. Why does it matter if she was exchanging explicit texts or whatever with her partner beforehand? She made terrible decisions that night, which ended in the death of an innocent person, but isn't the key question here only this: Were her actions accidental or did she set out to murder Mr. Jean.

YES! And what does it matter if he was smoking weed in HIS own apartment. He was watching Football, getting high and eating Ice cream in HIS own apartment.

 

[Jax49]

This was her second shooting.

Evidence about a previous shooting
The jury may hear about the time in 2017 that Guyger shot a suspect.

She was not indicted in the shooting of Uvaldo Perez, who had wrestled a Taser away from her.

What evidence could jurors hear during Amber Guyger’s murder trial in the death of Botham Jean?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I know as a juror, you are instructed to dress appropriately for court. Isn't the same true for witnesses? I am guessing not.

Maybe that’s all he has, or maybe that is just authentically him.

 

[gitana1]

Gitana, your posts are always excellent! You definitely have that "lawerly" quality, in that you keep keep to logic and facts, separating out emotion, fallacy, etc.

I do quibble a bit with your last comment here, though: My impression of AG is that she was woefully out of her depth as a police officer, trained or not. She was coming off of about 40 hours of work in 4 days, seemingly engrossed in her "after hours life" (who wouldn't be after getting off that schedule!), and as such, and having lived in the building for less than two months (I believe), wasn't noticing much about her surroundings, except that they are seemed similar in general.

She comes upon the door, believing that someone is in her apartment and coming at her, and freaks out, shooting him. Everything immediately after is just shock. It reads to me less like lack of character and more like a person who is significantly unfit, no matter how highly trained, to be in her line of work, which requires functioning in the most extreme situations, despite emotions, etc.

Just my two cents.

It's possible. I do think moments of extreme stress show who we are though. Do we run and abandon our loved ones or friends? Do we unthinkingly jump into the fray to help others.

She immediately began thinking about and protecting her job. Her body language with legs akimbo as she texts may show someone who feels confident that her department will protect her.

I feel very sure that she was more concerned about herself than impacted by the accidental shooting by her of an innocent man and his dying breaths.

That bothers me.

I feel a lot of people would be horror stricken and desperate to save him.

I was hit by a car a few weeks ago as I walked across the street with my law partner. He rolled across the roof and I flew back and landed on my butt. I was afraid I broke my leg.

The driver who was clearly in error, came running over to me and immediately held my hand and looked appalled. He said "Oh my gosh I'm so sorry! It was my fault!" He was clearly super worried for me.

The guy felt so bad. He has been texting since to check on me.

I think that goes to his character.

 

[rosesfromangels]

This was her second shooting.

Evidence about a previous shooting
The jury may hear about the time in 2017 that Guyger shot a suspect.

She was not indicted in the shooting of Uvaldo Perez, who had wrestled a Taser away from her.

What evidence could jurors hear during Amber Guyger’s murder trial in the death of Botham Jean?

I mean really....really.
How long is it going to take the jury to convict this woman? (Manslaughter)

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

It's possible. I do think moments of extreme stress show who we are though. Do we run and abandon our loved ones or friends? Do we unthinkingly jump into the fray to help others.

She immediately began thinking about and protecting her job. Her body language with legs akimbo as she texts may show someone who feels confident that her department will protect her.

I feel very sure that she was more concerned about herself than impacted by the accidental shooting by her of an innocent man and his dying breaths.

That bothers me.

I feel a lot of people would be horror stricken and desperate to save him.

I was hit by a car a few weeks ago as I walked across the street with my law partner. He rolled across the roof and I flew back and landed on my butt. I was afraid I broke my leg.

The driver who was clearly in error, came running over to me and immediately held my hand and looked appalled. He said "Oh my gosh I'm so sorry! It was my fault!" He was clearly super worried for me.

The guy felt so bad. He has been texting since to check on me.

I think that goes to his character.

Well glad you are still around to share that story!!!!! Let me guess. He was texting?

 

[Hraefn]

Current witness is another male who lived on the 4th floor, unit 1474.

 

[Jax49]

Current witness is another male who lived on the 4th floor, unit 1474.

Thanks for the updates. They are much appreciated.

O/T Dare you to try to spell his name, lol.

 

[Hraefn]

He also heard two gun shots. Right before the gun shots he did not hear any voices or verbal commands. I think he said he heard voices a few minutes before the gun shots, but definitely said there was no noise immediately before the shots.

 

[Kubirai]

Joshua is testifying about how he had gone to the wrong floor in the apartment building a few times, and even put his key in the wrong apartment door before and then realized it was the wrong door.

This testimony will be used by defence. The open parking and red rug should be mentioned by prosecution, if defence brings another witness who says the same.

 

[gitana1]

That's pretty fascinating, to me! I have never doubted that Amber was at Botham's door by accident/mistake, but it's her excessive force following that mistake that turns into criminal behavior, IMHO.

For me it's the increased duty of care as an officer and carrying a loaded weapon that makes her behavior criminal. She has a higher duty of care to be aware of her surroundings and the context of pulling and discharging her weapon.