TX - Jesus Mora Flores, 47, caught molesting child, beaten to death, 2012

[deoneta]

If it doesn't involve violence it shouldn't be traumatic because kids that age don't remember things that are not extreme. Remember, a 4 year old has no idea what sex is, or the social stigmas attached, so they would not know what is/was going on. It would just be another game to them, perhaps one they didnt like, but a game none the less. Unless someone tells them constantly later in life. What causes the trauma and consequences later in life is the behaviour of people around the victim who are aware of the crime. The best thing they could do for this kid is not mention it again, but unfortunately she watched her father beat someone to death, and that is never going away.

Sometimes things are best left in the past. My sister had a minor incident when she was around 10, it wasn't a big deal. I was there at the same time, a year older than her, and experienced the same thing, so I know exactly what happened. But later on in life as things didn't work out all that well for her personally (she was bipolar), it slowly began to take on bigger and bigger proportions, mainly (IMO) because they people around her were feading this thing as the cause of all her problems, when it in fact wasn't. They wanted to find a reason and someone to blame for her issues who wasn't my sister, and in doing so they completely missed what was really going on. Eventually she killed herself. I blame the people around her at the end. They might have meant well, but they didn't understand her true problems untill too late, but by then the damage was done.

BBM. Why do you think the molester had his pants down? To play a harmless game? Should the father have said, "oh please stop" as he waited for the molester to pick up a pitchfork or a shovel or any number of handy make do weapons that could be found in a barn and start beating him up? It's a shame the child had to go through this, but the fault is the would be molester's, not the father's.

 

[mysteriew]

If it doesn't involve violence it shouldn't be traumatic because kids that age don't remember things that are not extreme. Remember, a 4 year old has no idea what sex is, or the social stigmas attached, so they would not know what is/was going on. It would just be another game to them, perhaps one they didnt like, but a game none the less. Unless someone tells them constantly later in life. What causes the trauma and consequences later in life is the behaviour of people around the victim who are aware of the crime. The best thing they could do for this kid is not mention it again, but unfortunately she watched her father beat someone to death, and that is never going away.

Sometimes things are best left in the past. My sister had a minor incident when she was around 10, it wasn't a big deal. I was there at the same time, a year older than her, and experienced the same thing, so I know exactly what happened. But later on in life as things didn't work out all that well for her personally (she was bipolar), it slowly began to take on bigger and bigger proportions, mainly (IMO) because they people around her were feading this thing as the cause of all her problems, when it in fact wasn't. They wanted to find a reason and someone to blame for her issues who wasn't my sister, and in doing so they completely missed what was really going on. Eventually she killed herself. I blame the people around her at the end. They might have meant well, but they didn't understand her true problems untill too late, but by then the damage was done.

Respectfully I have to say I disagree with you. In your mind picture a 4 year old child, then picture a grown man. Size alone ensures that the child is going to have pain, even if no "violence" happens. And survivor/victim stories at even young ages through older child ages talk of children trying to say no and not being heard or not being listened to, of children trying to distance themselves from the act by pretending themselves somewhere else, to crying and screaming.

Even in cases where they don't tell at first there are reports of nightmares, school problems, anger issues, behavior problems and other negative responses to sexual abuse. As a matter of fact those responses are sometimes what tips medical personnel and therapists to the fact that the child was abused.

So yes, it is a big deal. You were one of the lucky ones evidently. But for others it can be quite traumatic.

I too was abused when I was young teen. It was molestation only, no rape. And I stopped it, I kept it from happening to my sister and I thought I had it handled ok. I didn't tell for almost 30 years. But yes it has affected my life in negative ways.

 

[Flutterby80]

If it doesn't involve violence it shouldn't be traumatic because kids that age don't remember things that are not extreme. Remember, a 4 year old has no idea what sex is, or the social stigmas attached, so they would not know what is/was going on. It would just be another game to them, perhaps one they didnt like, but a game none the less. Unless someone tells them constantly later in life. What causes the trauma and consequences later in life is the behaviour of people around the victim who are aware of the crime. The best thing they could do for this kid is not mention it again, but unfortunately she watched her father beat someone to death, and that is never going away.

Sometimes things are best left in the past. My sister had a minor incident when she was around 10, it wasn't a big deal. I was there at the same time, a year older than her, and experienced the same thing, so I know exactly what happened. But later on in life as things didn't work out all that well for her personally (she was bipolar), it slowly began to take on bigger and bigger proportions, mainly (IMO) because they people around her were feading this thing as the cause of all her problems, when it in fact wasn't. They wanted to find a reason and someone to blame for her issues who wasn't my sister, and in doing so they completely missed what was really going on. Eventually she killed herself. I blame the people around her at the end. They might have meant well, but they didn't understand her true problems untill too late, but by then the damage was done.

No disrespect intended, but do you have some sort of mental health training? Honestly, I am finding it disturbing that someone would think that a full-grown man grabbing up and sexually violating a five-year-old doesn't constitute violence, is not extreme, and should be "left in the past".
This man was found with his pants down and genitals exposed. I can only think of 3 things that could have been going on, two of which would be excruciatingly physically painful for this little girl and the other that would, at the very least, be terrifying and confusing.

When you say in an earlier post that the memory she will have of this ordeal will be one of violence and blood, you may be right. A full-grown man raping a five-year-old girl is violent AND bloody. While I HOPE it didn't go that far before her father stopped it, it could have. Being sexually assaulted leaves physical AND emotional scars. You state that a child her age has no idea what sex is about and you are probably right. But this attack on her was an act of violence, it has nothing to do with sex. Rape is not about sex for the victim!

For once, it is nice to read on this site about a parent who protects his child. If he threw one punch too many in the heat of the moment, I am not going to fault him. I do not think it speaks to his true character, as everyone who has been interviewed has said what a nice, polite, dedicated individual and father he is and if ever there was an excuse for temporary insanity, walking in on your five-year old daughter being sexually assaulted by a man with his pants around his ankles would be number one!!!

 

[EGirl]

If you were willing to kill someone who molested your child, there is a very high probability that you would be willing to kill if you found out that your spouse was cheating or something like that. Both would be things that you regarded as severe offences to yourself. Probably many other conflict situations that occur in life would trigger it as well.

It takes a certain mindset, that being the inability to control yourself when enraged.

This guy was not protecting his child, he didn't need to pummel the guy into the ground to do that. He went beyond the point of what was necessary and reasonable because he lost control of his emotions. Any time he loses control of his emotions, there is going to be a real risk of someone being hurt.

You are welcome to want to live nextdoor to this guy. I for one would not.

BBM
Are you high?

 

[EGirl]

If it doesn't involve violence it shouldn't be traumatic because kids that age don't remember things that are not extreme. <snip>

...well that answers my previous question.

 

[Karmady]

I posted in the wrong thread. I've deleted the post, but apologies to those who saw it and were confused! lol Sorry folks

 

[katydid23]

Tugela,

I was sexually abused at age 5, and it still haunts me, 55 yrs later. I can only wish that my father had been able to come and put a final stop to it.

 

[maedlamsmom]

She screamed. That to me says "violence". She screamed loud enough to send her daddy running to her. I refuse to invalidate or diminish this child's ordeal. It was, unquestionably, traumatic, and will continue to be.

It is an unfortunate, horrible incident all around. It's horrible for the poor, poor child, because of what she had to endure at the hands of a pedophile, and then she witnessed a beating. Yes, despite what some may say had to happen or how she may see her daddy as her hero later on in life, she won't completely understand his actions for a long time. And, it must have been scary to see that. I won't even begin to compare the assault with her father's actions- there is NO comparison. But, I will say they were both traumatic in their own terrible ways. It's horrible for the daddy who will have to live with what he saw that day in the barn AND what he did in response. And, lastly, it is horrible for all the family members, not only of the little girl, but also of the man (if he had anyone who loved him).

Do I think the dad deserves a medal? No. Do I, personally, think he can be blamed for his actions? No. I think that if ever there is a time to lose control of yourself and be overcome with emotion, this is it. I have no idea how I would react if this had been me and my daughter. I have a feeling though, based on the fact that I have literally stepped in front of a moving bus to push my daughter out the way, without thinking for ONE second of the consequences (there weren't any thank goodness!), that I would just react with animal instinct, like this Daddy did.

However, I do think he should be tried and judged by a jury of his peers if the evidence suggests that it moved beyond the point of self-defense, based on the law. And, once the case is presented, I hope and believe that the charges will be dismissed or he will be found not guilty.

Ultimately, there is nothing good about this situation. Every detail is sad and tragic. The only consolation for me will be if this Daddy can just go back to being a Daddy to his little girl.

Sorry for the long post. Have been thinking about this case for days, and just needed to get that all out... All moo...

 

[not_my_kids]

If you were willing to kill someone who molested your child, there is a very high probability that you would be willing to kill if you found out that your spouse was cheating or something like that. Both would be things that you regarded as severe offences to yourself. Probably many other conflict situations that occur in life would trigger it as well.

It takes a certain mindset, that being the inability to control yourself when enraged.

This guy was not protecting his child, he didn't need to pummel the guy into the ground to do that. He went beyond the point of what was necessary and reasonable because he lost control of his emotions. Any time he loses control of his emotions, there is going to be a real risk of someone being hurt.

You are welcome to want to live nextdoor to this guy. I for one would not.

But that's also not true. Because I have had partners be unfaithful to me, I have been passed over for jobs, I have had many occurrences in my life that seemed unjust and made me angry, but not one of them has made me enraged. Just a justifiable, reasonable amount of anger. However, if someone molested my child, and I caught them in the act, partially disrobed, I would have to have my fingers literally pried from their throat before I would let them go. I would kill them if it were physically within my power to do so, and I can imagine that I wouldn't feel all that guilty. Taking a life is incredibly hard, but living where I do, I came to peace with my own ability to take a life long ago. In cities like mine, that's the only way you are going to survive, and that your loved ones are going to survive. I wish with everything in me that I were exaggerating, but I'm not. If you don't believe me, Google Flint, MI.


Could that be the difference between our viewpoints? Do you consider yourself capable of taking a life in defense of your own life or the life and safety of your child? I won't run you down if you aren't that type of person, I'm just curious. If I am at peace with that part of myself, and you aren't, or you don't feel that you have that part, then we aren't going to see eye to eye on this, or even understand the other's viewpoints. We'll just be doing this: :banghead::banghead::banghead:

The man hit him several times, but not dozens of times. His adrenaline was high, he was likely angered, but I don't know if I would say that he was enraged, as I am not a doctor or psychologist. The combo of adrenaline and fear and shock and anger could have affected him the same way as simple rage.

I'd love to live next door to him. At least I'd know that the six hundred sex offenders registered to my city (once again, not an exaggeration) would be well advised to stay off my street.

 

[Flutterby80]

I am thinking of this young father today, and hoping he is able to enjoy a peaceful Father's Day with his kiddos.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2012/jun/16/ca_beating_folo_061712_179653/?counties

"That dude (Flores) gave him (the witness) $5, and he went to go get the chicken feed. He came back to tell him (Flores) there was no chicken feed, then he saw him jump over the fence with the girl and she was screamin' and hollerin' back there," Mikey said. "He (the father) beat him and took back his daughter, then jumped back to see if he was dead. It's pretty shocking that something like that would happen. I mean, this is a small town."

 

[mysteriew]

I am thinking of this young father today, and hoping he is able to enjoy a peaceful Father's Day with his kiddos.

I join you in that hope Flutterby. I hope that today is a day of peace and love for him and for his little girl. And for the rest of his family.

 

[Reality Orlando]

If you were willing to kill someone who molested your child, there is a very high probability that you would be willing to kill if you found out that your spouse was cheating or something like that. Both would be things that you regarded as severe offences to yourself. Probably many other conflict situations that occur in life would trigger it as well.

It takes a certain mindset, that being the inability to control yourself when enraged.

This guy was not protecting his child, he didn't need to pummel the guy into the ground to do that. He went beyond the point of what was necessary and reasonable because he lost control of his emotions. Any time he loses control of his emotions, there is going to be a real risk of someone being hurt.

You are welcome to want to live nextdoor to this guy. I for one would not.

I'd live next to him in a heartbeat. IMO he's a hero who saved his daughter from a horrific crime. I personally believe child molesters are the lowest form of life on the planet and think dad was totally in his rights to protect his daughter.

 

[Reality Orlando]

If it doesn't involve violence it shouldn't be traumatic because kids that age don't remember things that are not extreme. Remember, a 4 year old has no idea what sex is, or the social stigmas attached, so they would not know what is/was going on. It would just be another game to them, perhaps one they didnt like, but a game none the less. Unless someone tells them constantly later in life. What causes the trauma and consequences later in life is the behaviour of people around the victim who are aware of the crime. The best thing they could do for this kid is not mention it again, but unfortunately she watched her father beat someone to death, and that is never going away.

Sometimes things are best left in the past. My sister had a minor incident when she was around 10, it wasn't a big deal. I was there at the same time, a year older than her, and experienced the same thing, so I know exactly what happened. But later on in life as things didn't work out all that well for her personally (she was bipolar), it slowly began to take on bigger and bigger proportions, mainly (IMO) because they people around her were feading this thing as the cause of all her problems, when it in fact wasn't. They wanted to find a reason and someone to blame for her issues who wasn't my sister, and in doing so they completely missed what was really going on. Eventually she killed herself. I blame the people around her at the end. They might have meant well, but they didn't understand her true problems untill too late, but by then the damage was done.

BBM. A game? You think sexual assault/rape is a game? It's not a game to adult women let alone a young child. Rape is a violent sexual assault. Once again I'm going to remain speechless as I value my membership here on WS.

 

[Elley Mae]

There's a saying that I find useful, Some things are best left unsaid.

 

[mysteriew]

No, the memory a 4 year old will have of the incident is one of violence and blood. That is not something a 4 year old typically would have any comprehension or experience of, and it is going to leave a huge psychological scar. It will be similar to what kids experience when caught up in war, they would not see it the same way you would. Whatever the molester was doing will pale in comparison to that, because what he was doing would not have involved extreme violence, to a 4 year old it would have been unusual behaviour, maybe scary, since they wouldn't have understood it. Beating someone to a pulp, that they would understand.

What she will most likely remember is that someone was hurting her, and Daddy made him stop. Yes later the memory and realization of the man dying might affect her, but most immediate will be that a man hurt her, and Daddy made him stop.

The memory of her father beating the man who hurt her probably will be less traumatic to her than the assault she suffered. She felt that pain and fear. The rest she saw, but probably was in shock from her own assault. Her own assault will be what she remembers, and in that memory she has that her father rescued her.

 

[mysteriew]

I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way in real life. In real life a person who loses control when they become enraged will do so potentially whenever they become enraged. In this instance it was someone molesting his daughter. Next time it might be if he suspects his wife is cheating, or his kid refuses to take out the trash, or someone cuts him off on the highway. People who resort to violence when enraged don't know boundaries, that is why they do it. Next time it could be you, think about that.

You are talking apples and oranges here, because the motivations are different. In this case fear and fatherly protective mode is the motivation. And in the case of a cheating wife, jealousy and rage would be the motivating factors. And there is no reason to believe that a person who stepped in to save his daughter would shoot his wife out of anger. Two totally different situations.

 

[mysteriew]

I'd live next to him in a heartbeat. IMO he's a hero who saved his daughter from a horrific crime. I personally believe child molesters are the lowest form of life on the planet and think dad was totally in his rights to protect his daughter.

Personally I would rather have this guy live next to me than I would the guy who is raping his child. Or the mother who is allowing the boyfriend to rape her child. Or the mother or father who get their kicks (and maybe even their income) by taking pics of their kids and putting them out there. Personally I'd like to see all of those individuals in prison for life so no one would have to live next to them.

But yeah, if he lived next to me I am afraid I would have to take him a cake today. One with Happy Father's Day written on it.

 

[neesaki]

I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way in real life. In real life a person who loses control when they become enraged will do so potentially whenever they become enraged. In this instance it was someone molesting his daughter. Next time it might be if he suspects his wife is cheating, or his kid refuses to take out the trash, or someone cuts him off on the highway. People who resort to violence when enraged don't know boundaries, that is why they do it. Next time it could be you, think about that.

I'm sorry? Really, Tugela, it appears that it does work that way in real life. Isn't that what this is, real life ? :waitasec:

Also, in these other scenarios you are presenting, it's like comparing apples to oranges, making mountains out of molehills. Not even a close resemblance to what happened in this case.

 

[neesaki]

No, the memory a 4 year old will have of the incident is one of violence and blood. That is not something a 4 year old typically would have any comprehension or experience of, and it is going to leave a huge psychological scar. It will be similar to what kids experience when caught up in war, they would not see it the same way you would. Whatever the molester was doing will pale in comparison to that, because what he was doing would not have involved extreme violence, to a 4 year old it would have been unusual behaviour, maybe scary, since they wouldn't have understood it. Beating someone to a pulp, that they would understand.

I disagree. The memory of this child will be the trauma she was experiencing at the hand of this pedophile. Other than that, ijmo that she felt and will always remember the feeling of relief and love and being rescued by a very loving and protective father. Who knows, maybe she'll grow up to be a "protector" and be a tough cop or FBI agent that hunts down child predators.