TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #1

[bluesneakers]

Thanks--not that it matters, but I suffer from depression and have experienced a lot of suicidal ideation, primarily in the past, thank goodness, and yes I did contemplate different methods. But never that one.

Going off in a different direction (and just jumping off your post), my depression has come and gone over the years and I don't think it's very logical to assume that just because she was so depressed that she attempted suicide five years ago--assuming that's true--suicide now is a logical explanation for her death. Speaking from personal experience, I know five years is enormous amount of time to move from one state of mind to another and back again, several times.

I'm sorry. Depression sucks.

A previous attempt puts a person at risk and it can remain high for years. I think after one attempt it's 40% higher than the general population and I'm not sure how many years and I can't find the links atm. The important thing is they should know this and should have taken proper precautions. If she was depressed and suicidal she was ill and shouldn't have been left alone in her cell with a trash bag like that.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

As far as I am aware, she was arrested on July 10, a Friday. Maybe her family couldn't transfer the money to Texas until the new workweek started, for whatever reason. Or maybe the jail just didn't accept wire transfers and they sent out a check by FedEx that was to arrive first thing Monday morning which back in my day was 10:00, the time of the earlier FedEx delivery. By which time it was too late.

I'm wondering what made you assume the family didn't have it?

I've never heard of bail bondsman waiting for FedEx. LOL. The bail bondsmans would take Western Union I would think. Maybe not.

I guess you could be right though.

ETA Do bail bondsmen take credit/debit cards?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

BBM

And at the risk of having to duck tomatoes, I will point out, that if she had not been so rude and obstinate, she would never have been arrested. She came at the cop too and baited him. He was totally unprofessional and out of line. I agree. I showed my son the video and he shook his head in disbelief and was angry. Angry that the cop allowed himself to be baited like that and took the bait. He said he should have called for back up and let it deescalate. But he is not responsible for her suicide, imo.

Her emotional and mental health issues were ongoing. They did not start with that traffic stop.

Being rude and obstinate are not grounds for arrest in this country.

 

[bluesneakers]

BBM

And at the risk of having to duck tomatoes, I will point out, that if she had not been so rude and obstinate, she would never have been arrested. She came at the cop too and baited him. He was totally unprofessional and out of line. I agree. I showed my son the video and he shook his head in disbelief and was angry. Angry that the cop allowed himself to be baited like that and took the bait. He said he should have called for back up and let it deescalate. But he is not responsible for her suicide, imo.

Her emotional and mental health issues were ongoing. They did not start with that traffic stop.

If she hadn't been driving the car she never would have been arrested. She should have taken the bus.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I've never heard of bail bondsman waiting for FedEx. LOL. The bail bondsmans would take Western Union I would think. Maybe not.

I guess you could be right though.

I don't know how it works either. Obviously you have more experience with bail bondsmen's practices than I do. LOL. (Really, I'm just teasing you.)

My point was why assume the family didn't have it? Honest question. Maybe it's a valid assumption but I would still like to know what it was based upon.

 

[katydid23]

I've already answered this, but I want to point out that the vast majority of the posts here (80-90%?) are about the arrest, and are not tied to the matter of her death.

What if it turns out that she did kick him? Should she have been arrested if so?

 

[Dénouement]

According to CNN she was a cutter and had multiple marks on her one arm.

PLease point me in the direction of this. The report says she had no visible signs of self harm

 

[katydid23]

Being rude and obstinate are not grounds for arrest in this country.

No, but if they escalate into assault on an officer, than there are grounds for arrest. I will be curious if there is any evidence about that coming up.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I would disagree. The public needs to see that bad LE are punished, not protected. And you know what else? The people who should be calling the loudest for firing this officer are LE themselves. Every bad cop who gets involved in a situation like this makes life harder for all of the good cops out there. It's bad cops that have largely created the public relations nightmare that burdens many police departments and tarnishes the reputation of law enforcement in general. So, again, I disagree that it won't make any difference.

It's not just bad cops that have caused negative public relations for police. Just look at the portrayal of Darren Wilson who was proven innocent of any wrong doing.

Look at where that came from. JMO.

 

[Montjoy]

What if it turns out that she did kick him? Should she have been arrested if so?

I don't find these 'what if' questions useful for anything other than derailing a discussion. It would be as if I asked you "What if the officer was groping her? Should she be able to defend herself?"

 

[arkansasmimi]

You may be right. I thought I read five years ago.

Per information she provided the intake officer 2014 suicide attempt with pills, then said she was never depressed ??? But the video where she posted on her FB about having PTSD and Depression was THIS year, either March or May iirc.

 

[Cappuccino]

No, but if they escalate into assault on an officer, than there are grounds for arrest. I will be curious if there is any evidence about that coming up.

Oh, I think we will all be curious about that!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't know how it works either. Obviously you have more experience with bail bondsmen's practices than I do. LOL. (Really, I'm just teasing you.)

My point was why assume the family didn't have it? Honest question. Maybe it's a valid assumption but I would still like to know what it was based upon.

It's based upon the fact that Sandra didn't bail out and instead killed herself.

Maybe they did have the money and for some reason couldn't/didn't bail her out. That's the other option.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

No, but if they escalate into assault on an officer, than there are grounds for arrest. I will be curious if there is any evidence about that coming up.

I don't think so, because insofar as I understand it, the part of the confrontation where she supposedly kicked him (conveniently?) took place out of dashcam view.

I am not a lawyer but I think a person might have a valid defense against assaulting an officer if able to present convincing evidence that he or she was in fear for life due to the officer's unreasonable actions.

I am not saying I think that's what happened here, just speaking in generalities.

 

[katydid23]

PLease point me in the direction of this. The report says she had no visible signs of self harm

The documents say she attempted suicide last year by taking pills.



Waller County District Attorney Elton Mathis promised a thorough and exhaustive review of the case, which will be presented to a grand jury.

"It has not been determined at this point that this was a murder. This investigation is being conducted as a murder investigation would," Mathis said. "Whatever the ultimate determination may be, whether that's a suicide or a homicide, that will ultimately be decided by a grand jury."

But investigators were examining online videos posted by Bland in March in which she talked about battling depression and post-traumatic stress disorder, according to Mathis.

He also said preliminary autopsy results indicate she had marijuana in her system and cutting scars on her arm.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/22/us/texas-sandra-bland-arrest/

 

[arkansasmimi]

I don't find these 'what if' questions useful for anything other than derailing a discussion. It would be as if I asked you "What if the officer was groping her? Should she be able to defend herself?"

What IF it comes out that she was again, under the influence? It is unbelieveable that anyone is condoning the behavior of this lady, and I am not condoning all of what the officer did. We are just seeing part of the situation as she was in the car. He took her to the grassy area to get her out of the street. She asked for EMT then refused. Stated at the jail she wasn't hurt. Trying to justify bad behavior over and over is why so much crap is going on and innocent people are being hurt and innocent businesses being destroyed. What ever is going on is NOT working. Far from it. And Sadly Sandra Bland considered herself part of a movement that isnt working fixing anything. I hate the loss of life, of anyone. But she was the one who caused herself to get stopped because she broke the law. And got herself arrested ... JMHO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

No, but if they escalate into assault on an officer, than there are grounds for arrest. I will be curious if there is any evidence about that coming up.

I think that the officer probably had grounds to arrest if Sandra stuck him but at the same time I doubt that the DA would prosecute her after viewing the dash cam video.

If there were any witness's that can corroborate that Sandra did assault the officer then that would change things. JMO

 

[RT51]

I am unable to watch the video due to technical difficulties on my computer. My question is, did he ask her if she was OK before he ran her license and knew her history of DUI, or after?

I work with cops, dispatch them. 99% are great. There is always that 1% that are jerks, which is human nature (not say it's ok, just stating a fact) I do know that when a license/plate is run, and the subject has a history, the cop is more alert to possible difficulties. (Not excusing this one, but) You never know if the person with a history knows they will be done with driving with one more thing added to their record and therefore gets an attitude. JMO.

I should also mention, that the majority of the ones I work with will clear with a warning as they don't want to do the paper work, or have to go to court over a simple traffic violation. If it is a real breach violation, then yes, they will carry through.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

It's based upon the fact that Sandra didn't bail out and instead killed herself.

Maybe they did have the money and for some reason couldn't/didn't bail her out. That's the other option.

Well, I tried to find more details about this and all I found was that the family was "in the process of securing" her bail when she died.

IMO that could mean almost anything.

If you find any further details please do post them because now I'm really curious in general to know why she was still in jail two days after her arrest rather than being out on bail. :seeya:

 

[bluesneakers]

I think that the officer probably had grounds to arrest if Sandra stuck him but at the same time I doubt that the DA would prosecute her after viewing the dash cam video.

If there were any witness's that can corroborate that Sandra did assault the officer then that would change things. JMO

I think the witnesses and the person with the cell phone will corroborate Sandra's story.